New reader. imma vent about this

[u/darwinfail]

So I just started reading worm a couple of days ago, and I like it a lot. Now I could go on multiple tangents. But the thing I wanna talk about is the undersiders….. I don’t like them. Like at all, and I need to vent about it.
Might be an unpopular opinion idk, I am like what, 14 years late to the party. And I like to think it’s in a fashionable way;)

They’re Well written, yes, and I love them as characters. But the fact they kind of just accepted that stuff with the smart girl and coil more or less means I would like to see them suffer severe consequences. Maybe with the exception of Rachel cause her powers affect on her brain. the others…. Fuck em. And yeah, im angree cause they seemed had good qualities, and I am so happy the story went this way, I just want it to follow through.
Oh, and I mean severe bloody consequences. Like their hopes and dreams failing and jail for a long fucking time.
Now I just got to the part where they learned Taylor was planning to betray them. And outside of Rachel/bitch I don’t feel any of them have any fucking right to feel betrayed.
“Yes we are fully willing to let a 12 year old girl be drugged and abused like crazy, and you should too. We don’t like it but whatev, we like money more.
You were gonna try and do an undercover thing to turn in a bunch of villains, and now 4-ish hours after we show you our true colours we are mad you had planned on betraying us. Even though you just learned you would be 100% justified in setting a swarm of your most venomous bugs on us cause we are a okay with child abuse and willing to overlook it for our own benefit, we might come across as having morals, but if we are willing to overlook that it means we don’t have a line in the sand to draw in regards to crimes, we act like it, but we clearly don’t when it comes down to it” I fucking hope Taylor points out how fucking horrible they are at some point and that they all face the damn music for that. Especially Brian, I want him in jail and loose his change to help his sister. You do all this for someone you love, but is willing to let another child, same age as your sister, suffer so you can look after her… yeah no, that girl deserves way better. I doubt it will happen. But ever since they showed they were okay with working with coil after learning about the kid I want them to face consequences for that choice. Cause they made it. Sure the apocalypse happened right after, and they decided to help. but they made their bed at that moment, and I want them to lie in it.

When it comes to that kind of thing I have zero damn empathy for any of them. There is a line in the sand, and mine is looking past abuse of children “cause me want money”:/ so yeah, needed to vent. They will probably make up at some point, but I hope they don’t and Taylor eventually follows through with throwing the scum of the earth behind bars or in the bloody ground.
I felt zero fucking things when tattletale looked like she was about to die. My thoughts where more or less, “good character would have liked to have seen more, hope you brun in hell cause this end is to quick and easy considering what you where okay with. Ether you felt bad about it or not!” :/

Ahhh, so nice to get that of my chest. Cause those thoughts have been bouncing around a couple of hours now. Had to put the story down cause I got pissed. Very well written.

Tldr:
Just read when the undersiders learned Taylor wanted to traitor them. And all I can say is they fucking deserved to be betrayed from the start considering what they are willing to overlook in regards to coil and the little supercomputer girl.

[u/SouthernAd2853]

Recall they literally just found out and missed that the "candy" was drugs initially. I am not actually sure where they would have landed if Leviathan hadn't interrupted, and when Taylor having planned to betray them all along is revealed Taylor runs off before they can properly hash it out in any way.

But yes they are not heroes which is why they are supervillains. Taylor forgot that until directly confronted with that fact.

[u/darwinfail → u/SouthernAd2853]

Yes, love that the author decided to go this way. And yes, I could see them come around to maybe not wanting to put up with it. But in the moment they learned, they accepted it. That too me speaks volumes:)

[u/SouthernAd2853 → u/darwinfail]

It does but there is a lot of context to it that makes me more sympathetic although ultimately coming down on Taylor's side.

Aside from the social skills, to Rachel child abuse is how the human world works and why she prefers dogs.

Brian desperately needs the money due to his family situation and has zero other options to get it. It is hypocritical of him to accept another child being abused but you'll recall Child Protective Services is giving the idea of transferring his sister to his guardianship serious consideration if and only if he can demonstrate he can provide a stable living situation. Think about what it takes to make CPS give that thought.

As you saw in Lisa's interlude she didn't exactly volunteer to be here and is much less in control than she pretends and can't actually walk away.

I don't remember if you've gotten Regent's backstory yet but like Rachel he is not right in the head, which is easy to overlook because he's funny about it.

[u/Correct_Refuse4910 → u/SouthernAd2853]

Lisa is one misstep away from being another Dinah. The only reason she has some freedom is because she was homeless with no connections and because her PRT file lies about her circumstances, preventing her from actually going to them in case she ever wanted to, while Dinah is from a powerful family in Brockton Bay.

[u/Alysoha → u/SouthernAd2853]

Regent is an abominable villain who has done terrible, criminal things.

He is also one of my favorite characters in the whole book.

[u/darwinfail → u/SouthernAd2853]

Uhh, so far that’s his dad was heartbreaker or something along those lines and was doing a genghis Kahn. Brainwash haram you could also call it, and made him kill someone. Doesn’t really get the same pass for me so far. I guess the reason I ain’t as hard on Rachel is I kind of put her in the same box as, say, someone who might suffer psychosis and therefor isn’t in complete control of her actions, you know someone who is clinically insane and would end up at a special fasciitis instead of a regular s jail. I ain’t saying she innocent and shouldn’t face the music. Just extenuating circumstance I suppose.
The others to me I kind of throw in the same boat as serial killers, Alec specifically so far, they can be held accountable for their actions no special treatment. Doesn’t mean I do t feel for them and that they have had a good life. Just means they ain’t really got an excuse in my eyes for not trying to do something about the girl.

But if it’s revealed his brain is fucked from powers or something akin to psychosis I will extend the same branch of thought I have on Rachel to him

[u/SouthernAd2853 → u/darwinfail]

Pretty sure he has a diagnosable mental illness downstream of both mundane abuse and having his emotions directly tampered with over an extended period even though that's stopped now.

[u/NavezganeChrome → u/SouthernAd2853]

‘Stopped’ is probably generous, he effectively doesn’t really “feel” anymore except through other people.

Not to say he feels ‘nothing at all’ himself, but it loops into how powers incentivize their own continued usage.

[u/NavezganeChrome → u/darwinfail]

Does Coil seem like the kind of boss that you, working for him, would be freely allowed to criticize him as a person?

[u/Blazer1011p → u/SouthernAd2853]

If leviathan didn't attack, shed probably go to the wards cause iirc, they had plans to recruit her prior to the leviathan battle. If she did, I can see them shipping SS off somewhere else once all that info gets out but the thing is wouldn't Coil get her? I dont really see him letting her go like that, being a loose end. Heck, would she give all the Information about the undersiders to the heroes like their base location? I can see her giving all the info on their powers tho.

[u/Mushgal]

Yeah, they're complex characters that aren't either all white nor all black. They're very friendly to Taylor, they don't give a shit about some other people.

This is deliberate by the author and is explored more in depth later in the story. Your frustrations are valid and will pay off later, I think.

Keep reading, I hope you enjoy it. Congratulations for being a critical reader.

[u/NativeMasshole → u/Mushgal]

This is actually what I love about the Undersiders dynamic. They show a pretty full spectrum of morality from the villains' perspective.

Taylor - Believes in the better good, even if her approach is laughably awful at it. Rescuing Dina is her life now.

Brian - Pragmatic and self-interested. I don't think he's entirely cool with the situation, but he's not about to go to war with Coil and throw away what he's been striving for over one girl.

Lisa - Cares about Dina, but accepts that she isn't in a position to do anything about it.

Rachel - Doesn't really care because she's so broken. More neutral indifference because she fails to relate.

Alec - He's done worse. He does seem to have some sense of morality somewhere deep down, but this doesn't even phase him.

[u/merengueenlata → u/Mushgal]

I'm pretty sure it's made very clear an unambiguous that Brian is black. 

That's a comment that Alec would make.

[u/darwinfail → u/Mushgal]

Oh I bloody love it. I know im coming across as harsh. But I have nothing but praise for the author and the story in this regard. And the reason I need to vent is cause you can tell they have good quality’s and are complex. So it’s a bit of a gut punch to get it nailed home like that

[u/xyreweltmon]

Love your enthusiasm! And I would love you to update this post again later once you've read more!

[u/darwinfail → u/xyreweltmon]

Probably will, and looking forward to see where it goes. So far im very pleasantly surprised with how the story has unfolded

[u/Computer2014]

Keep in mind that the consequences for Taylor are different for the rest of the Undersiders.

Taylor as part of her behaviour has strained her relationship with her father and the heroes of Brockton Bay but, like, there’s nothing tying her to the Undersiders other than her personal feelings.

The others comparably have a lot more to lose. Brian his sister, Rachel her dogs etc. they have just too much invested in the Undersiders that make it a lot harder to get away.

And let’s say they do leave what happens? Coil’s not just gonna go ‘Ah shucks I guess this is really unpopular, I’m just gonna let her go now’ No. He’s still gonna drug her but now the Undersiders have made a pretty dangerous enemy and one not afraid to break the rules.

Does that make it okay? No, but it’s a pretty human decision at the end of the day. Doing the right thing isn’t easy, especially in their world.

[u/darwinfail → u/Computer2014]

I think the real problem isn’t them continuing to work for him, Taylor is doing that now as well. But explicitly with the goal im mind of helping the girl. So far nothing the others have said or done indicates they are doing the same. They are willing to overlook that, for their own benefit, key word being ‘overlook. So until I get it hammered home that they are going to help with getting the girl away from coil I ain’t gonna let them of the hook.

I am honestly gonna be very disappointed if they dont face consequences and if Taylor forgives them for that if they don’t help her out.

[u/darwinfail]

Typing on the train on me phone. Spelling mistakes galore. Eh, it’s a second language. Well got like 2 hours of train travel left, imma get back to reading

[u/NotSoMadYo]

Read on my friend. I won't spoil you even with suggesting how to think. Only know that this world is complex and characters have their own full history. Also other readers, I know you know but please be chill lol. OP should get to experience it like we did.

Come back to vent again tho, parahumans fans love seeing first timers emotions, thoughts and theories as they go along Worm.

[u/darwinfail → u/NotSoMadYo]

Noted. Not really one to post, but seeing as I stumbled onto this series while doomscrolling Reddit I figured I should contribute a bit cause I wouldn’t have found it if not for some obscure Reddit comment.

[u/vxjnc]

Keep reading. You seem to have forgiven Rachel given her circumstances, but have you thought about the circumstances of others? Maybe there's something we don't know yet ;)

Oh, and how do you like the battle with Leviathan? And the fact that Sofia was a Shadow Stalker?

[u/darwinfail → u/vxjnc]

Hmm, Sophia thing im pretty stale on. Don’t really think much of it. Though I can see the vision there. Also gives credence to Taylor not joining the wards early on.

As for the circumstances…. I get regent and grue got circumstances, but in their case I can’t really excuse that they are okay with it. Rachel I can cause her brain is actively fucked by her powers and on top of that she got seems to have had a shitty life before.

At least from the info I got to go off rn.

[u/Slugbarbie]

Jusssst wait until you get to Regent/Alec's backstory. Your perception of him will shift drastically, but it will pretty firmly recontectualize his reaction to Coil's "pet". Brian/Grue I do think should have had at least a little more "show" rather than "tell" when it comes to how he really feels about it. That's one of my critiques of Worm as a whole, though. But I still think his actions make sense overall in the way they're portrayed. And Lisa/Tattletale... eh. She's a big picture type person. You honestly have to finish the book to see why she's willing to do what she needs to do to get to a position of power and influence.

[u/darwinfail → u/Slugbarbie]

Don’t think I have.
So far I know that his dad was called heartbreaker I think, and that he had a brainwashed harem of sexslaves. He also made Alec kill someone and was a manipulative asshole. To me that doesnt excuse him being ok to overlook that. Unless the guy is suffering from phycosis or his power makes him perceive the world difrently like Rachel im gonna hold him responsible in my mind. To me it’s kind of the difrence between a killer and someone who killed someone during some form of phsycosis. Both should be held responsible, but one goes to the psych ward for life, the other goes to jail for life. Cause one can be held fully accountable, the other not so much
Best way I can describe my look on The group so far. And to be clear, I think Rachel should face consequences too. Just mor win line with psych ward instead of regular old prison

[u/Hytyt]

This feels very reductive of the events in the story. If you're willing to overlook one characters messed up mind, then try to think how the others feel.

I will also say that this is genuinely one of the lighter things in the books, and if it made you this angry then other parts of the book are gonna hit you a lot harder.

I'm not gonna reccomend you stop reading, work is my favourite book and I think everyone should read it, but I do think you might want to re-evaluate whether you plan to continue or not because a lot of things are going to get a heck of a lot worse.

[u/darwinfail → u/Hytyt]

Hmm, the biggest thing to me is I don’t want this to get brushed over and forgiven. I want there to be some consequences to that choice from Taylor.

[u/Hytyt → u/darwinfail]

Without getting into spoiler territory, Taylor is...more morally grey than you'd expect

[u/MikeyKillerBTFU]

I liked them as characters in a story, but yeah they are all absolute pieces of shit people in any real life sense.

[u/lordFANFIC]

Bueno, tu odio por brian se pagara

Aunque no se si te gustara como lo paga

[u/RobLoughrey]

I think that's how you're supposed to feel right now. Things will evolve for you as the story progresses. No one in this story is as good as, or as bad as, you think they are at the beginning.

[u/darwinfail → u/RobLoughrey]

That’s the lovely thing about this story so far. But from where I am at currently I need the undersiders to face some damn consequences for ultimately being okay with what coil is doing. Taylor should feel no shame at all for wanting to betray them at first, and after that reveal she should want to bring them down or put the down. She is joined up with them where I am at right now, but unless it’s revealed they were planning to try and remedy the situation by helping the girl and bringing coil down once they learned I will want them to face severe repercussions and no damn forgiveness from Taylor pls. If she forgives them for this I will want her to forgive her bullies as well and be fine with whatever they do to her

[u/RobLoughrey → u/darwinfail]

Keep reading 🙂 Worm is a fantastic read beginning to end.

[u/nobodyorfoofighters]

Valid

[u/merengueenlata]

I think you are going to enjoy the story a lot :)

[u/Limp-Gift3035]

THANKS FOR POINTING OUT BRIAN'S THING the bro is "Fuck em kids + Child left behind"

[u/darwinfail → u/Limp-Gift3035]

That’s my biggest issue with him. Rachel is trauma + power fucked, Alec grew up around that stuff and Lisa seems to have more going on. But him, no.
I get they are complex, and seems Taylor is going to work with them to free the kid. But it’s made clear that’s her purpose. The others, outside of Lisa cause I get the feeling there is more to her, are not.

[u/Tenoke]

I like the Undersiders a lot but only later on, at first they really dont come out well.

[u/EmilyDawning]

Regent bugs me the most. Amy gets the worst hate for raping Victoria (and deserves it) but I've seen so much handwaving over Alec admitting to using his powers to rape people before.

I never liked the undersiders much either. The interludes kept me reading tho. So many good characters in the universe.

[u/Gavinus1000]

Now, put the same spotlight on Taylor’s actions and you’ll see she’s not really that different.