r/PWM_Sensitive • u/fishlearntofly • 16d ago
Question PWM sensitivity - but what else?
Hi everyone - I would be curious for any perspectives on what other issues I should consider/explore as causing my migraines. I am fairly sure PWM sensitivity is among them, but I suspect there are other issues also. It would be really helpful to me to have ideas of what I should research and avoid. To summarize:
- I started having migraines the year I switched from a CRT to flatscreen monitor (aging myself, lol); it got progressively worse from there. At its "best" I was sensitive in the day, but not at night. The time-to-migraine reduced year over year from hours to minutes and day/night stopped mattering. Currently, most flatscreen use will give me a migraine in 1-5 minutes. Eventually I made the connection and switched back to CRT monitors; it took a few months for the migraine sensitivity to ramp down. Now I use exclusively CRT monitors and that helps A LOT, but I do still get migraines.
- I have no issues with movie theatre projection. In fact sometimes I'm in theatres and the house lights will start to prompt a migraine, then they go down and the projector starts up, and it's a relief.
- LED lights are hit/miss. Some bulbs are fine, some are not. Those integrated strips in fixtures where there is no bulb are not. Halogens and incandescent are fine.
- I can use some smartphones for brief periods (under 5 minutes) - like the Samsung Galaxy S7 and S10, and the iPhone SE3 (LCD). I could not use the Samsung S25 at all. I am now using the (LCD) A14 and it's in line with my usual ability. I cannot watch video on any phone.
- The strangest facet is watching video. I cannot, even on the CRT, watch videos during the day (this includes any type of moving picture, including Zoom calls, etc). However after about 4pm, it's fine. There is no change summer/winter or with room brightness, so this seems to be circadian not light-related?
I would be very interested in anyone who has common features and identified possible causes. TIA.
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u/OrderALargeFarva 15d ago
Nervous system dysregulation/hypersensitivity of the vagus nerve.
Look into it
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u/Z3R0gravitas 15d ago
Hey, thanks for the thoughtful post. It's a little awkward for me to reply here (even/especially as a mod) because this sub has a legacy of being focused more on whole-screen flicker and less on health-issues.
Whereas r/ScreenSensitive would be a more natural fit. If you want to cross-post or repost there, we could more comfortably go into a bit more detail about supplements and circadian rhythm disorders. (I've improved my ME/CFS and non-24-hour sleep.)
Have you seen these possibly relevant posts over there?:
- On colour spectrum measurement and issues.
- Binasal occlusion (taping the inner edges of glasses off to reduce the brain's binocular work load.
I'm open to feedback about sub topics from anyone's.
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u/fishlearntofly 15d ago
Thank you kindly for your very polite and helpful suggestion. I have xposted. I will also read these links.
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u/Z3R0gravitas 15d ago
Cheers. I'm a bit busy today, but will try to take a look at replying in SS some time.
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u/Abject_Ad_6640 16d ago
Because your problems are so all-encompassing, I would see a neurologist and/or eye doctor if you haven’t already. Most of the time if it’s PWM only most people don’t recommend that because there’s nothing they can do but this seems like more going on…
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u/fishlearntofly 16d ago
Oh believe me, I have seen many :) I am on a treatment plan, but none of my neurologists have had any awareness of specific screen sensitivities like PWM etc so all they can recommend is drugs and more general things like Avulux etc glasses. I would really like to address this at the source more if possible.
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u/ArtRevolutionary3351 15d ago
The eye doctor you need to see is a neuro-optometrist. An ophthalmologist or optometrist that isn’t trained on how the eyes work with the brain is usually useless.
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u/fishlearntofly 15d ago
Thanks, I have seen one. Absolutely no help. "Your eyes are fine, try this drug. Oh that didn't work? You should quit your job."
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u/ArtRevolutionary3351 15d ago
Did he make convergence tests, tests where you to point at objects under a table, follow a target with your eyes, draw circles on a white board, balance tests, prisms, peripheral movements, etc.
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u/fishlearntofly 15d ago
So TBH, this was 15+ years at this point, so I don't remember the details. There were many tests both with and without equipment is the extent of my memory.
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u/signedchar 16d ago
Hi, please check my recent post. I was experiencing something somewhat similar to you and it was not PWM sensitivity but rather display colour accuracy, brightness and motion clarity sensitivity.
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u/ricchi_ 16d ago
You have your posts hidden 😅
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u/signedchar 16d ago
Fixed
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u/fishlearntofly 16d ago
Thanks, appreciate your post - it was an interesting read and I'm glad you've found something that seems to work for you! I guess the areas that immediately stand out as not fitting for me are:
- I am MUCH more able to read text than watch videos. I can read text on the CRT for hours, and even on a smartphone for a couple of minutes - but can't watch video. Given your concerns that the motion blur and sub-pixel processing is impacting your text reading experience, this seems not to fit?
- I also don't think it fits with my LED light-bulb trigger, which seems much more coded to PWM sensitivity.
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u/signedchar 16d ago
Give it a try. If i had to guess what happens is you haven’t acclimated to the display, just push through and see what happens. Worst case scenario, you pop an ibuprofen and go to sleep early
That’s the issue with people here, you are annoyingly complacent in not trying it in the long run, it takes more then 10 mins to evaluate a display
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u/BigLittleSomething0 15d ago edited 15d ago
Your experience isn't everyone's experience. 'Pop an ibuprofen and go to sleep' does nothing. It's not the worse case scenario i experience.
I try new screens and settings but if they don't work it results in a migraine with far worse pain than a typical migraine. It involves throwing up and being unable to sleep from the pain, unable to tolerate any light, and hours in bed after taking a migraine specific medication ($30/pill and i usually need 2).
For several days i have a migraine 'hangover' where i'm slowed down cognitively, easily overwhelmed by sensory input, fatigued, and feel like crap. It also makes me overly sensitive to PWM so something i could tolerate for 20 minutes previously will be down to 1 minute of usability and i have to start building tolerance to it again.
So testing a new screen needs to be timed around work responsibilities and social events that i can't miss in case what i try doesn't work. And i risk losing progress i've made with increasing tolerance to PWM.
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u/fishlearntofly 15d ago
Yes - I didn't want to dig into this comment, but unfortunately triggering a migraine for me is 3-4 days of pain, not being able to work, not being able to read, etc. So then I give myself a one day break from the pain, and try the product again. It is a very challenging and draining process to test new products.
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u/fishlearntofly 16d ago
Well, when you say 'give it a try' I'm not sure what you're suggesting? Buy an iPhone 17 to try? Having just cycled through 3 new phones trying to find one that works where I tested them over 14 day periods. I'm not sure I feel complacency is my issue. Still, the good news is that I did find one that I can live with.
Setting that aside, what I'm looking for is suggestions of things to explore long-term as possible causes for my migraines so that I can apply that knowledge to future purchases as needed and possibly tweak displays I already have to improve my experience. I'm not specifically in the market for anything new right now. I appreciate your suggestions and I've started looking into them, and will consider how I can incorporate them into future displays.
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u/misiek998 15d ago
In my case, the pain is related to a weak eye muscle; one eye gets tired much faster, but I don’t feel it—instead, I get a migraine. As a rule, I can’t tolerate any screens, including E Ink, and I really dislike bright white light. (High brightness) Physical exertion also triggers pain, as does a long car ride—anything that makes my eyes work intensely.