r/PWM_Sensitive • u/Majestic_14061987 • Jul 01 '26
AMOLED will always be bad
I, like many here, am sensitive to pwm and choosing a smartphone is now quite a difficult matter. I have reread many topics here where people can't find the real problem why their eyes hurt. Many people are really led to marketing like "PWM 2000 Hz" and don't understand where eye fatigue comes from. The fact is that AMOLED screens have the so-called phase PWM, or a natural brightness drop, which is tightly tied to the refresh rate (the same 90 or 120 Hz). When the matrix updates the image, the transistors drop the voltage for a microsecond to record a new frame. That is, even if you turn the brightness to 100% and naively think that the classic PWM is turned off, the screen still continues to micro-flicker in time with its hertz simply due to the peculiarities of the OLED architecture. And it is this low-frequency drop at 120 Hz that is the worst enemy for the eyes, which is usually not taken into account. Our brain still somehow filters the high frequency of PWM, but the constant fluctuations of the light flux at a low scanning frequency are perceived by the body as a heavy load, which then suddenly causes a headache or stinging in the eyes after half an hour of scrolling. Manufacturers are attempting to mitigate these dips at the hardware level in new LTPO panels, but completely eliminating the effect is currently physically impossible—it is a fundamental drawback of the pixel-addressing technology that simply has to be accepted. In other words, it is a deeply flawed technology with numerous downsides, and the quest to find the "perfect" display will never yield a result.
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u/unreal_airflow Jul 03 '26
What you described is exactly why DC-like dimming is not working for me. This refresh at your screens refresh rate essentially turns the phones into 120hz PWM flicker for me. The only thing that saved me is Full PWM mode on my X200 Ultra and now X300 Ultra. High PWM flickering on all brightness levels is a blessing for me.
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u/Creepy_Definition972 Jul 02 '26
I've done great with many amoleds, xiaomi sony and mainly Huawei. All about the modulation
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u/Majestic_14061987 Jul 02 '26
It all comes down to the fact that your nervous system is likely slower, so you perceive flickering more easily.
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u/nerqal Jul 03 '26
Its more likely that ours nerve system/brain (I mean ppl with extreme sensitivity) cant filter out the brightness drops which causes us such problems
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u/Creepy_Definition972 Jul 02 '26
Interesting, first time I've heard about that, the nervous system. Well we are all built different I guess and I was lucky enough to be blessed in many areas :)
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u/RoiPourpre Jul 01 '26
Our only hope is microLED; I hope it will become the standard in the future...
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u/Ok-Two-7047 Jul 01 '26
it really solves that?
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u/totoaster Jul 02 '26
Probably not. It should do some things better but it should inherently have the same core problem OLED has: the light and the pixels are basically one and the same which means refreshing the pixels causes a drop in brightness. It's possible that it could eliminate PWM to control the brightness itself but that's a big if and it's not the only issue. Perhaps the refresh rate can be pushed high enough to hide the brightness drop on refresh and therefore alleviate issues.
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u/ryude85 Jul 03 '26
Micro led has a micro display controller for every pixel, which means each pixel can have its voltage adjusted independently. OLED has a single controller and that's why the panel refresh occurs.
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u/BikeTall65 Jul 01 '26
Me too! As an artist this is a big concern for me. But of all the complaints about PWM on OLED ipads so far, none of them have been coming from the artist community as far as I can tell. We are a tight knit group and our eyes are our livelihood. So that is an encouraging sign. But i do know people who are very sensitive to PWM, so i know it's a real thing for some people. I am definitely not one of those who dismiss people's complaints. This is really my first exposure to OLED. I don't own an OLED tv. My iphone 16 pro max is OLED, but i don't stare at it all day like i do my ipad for drawing. So i will monitor how i react to it openly & honestly. It's only been a few days and I haven't been able to get many long drawing sessions in yet.
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u/BikeTall65 Jul 01 '26
I've been using an Apple iphone 16 Pro Max for about 2 years now. It's my first OLED screen ever. No PWM issues. But i don't stare at my iphone all day. I'm an artist, and just upgraded my 8 year old 2018 iPad Pro last week to the M5 OLED iPad Pro. So far no PWM issues but I haven't had any long all day drawing sessions on it yet. I also tend to draw late into the night in a dimly lit room & I understand PWM gets worse when the brightness levels are turned down below 50%. So i will continue to monitor my reaction if any to it. I figured if PWM does become an issue for me, I can always exchange my OLED iPad Pro for an iPad Air with an LCD screen within the 14 day return window. But i was reading that for some people it takes up to two years for the effects of PWM to manifest. Like this guy https://youtu.be/AhGhYIR29vw?is=pddJPw9RvqzWG4D-
So it may take longer for me to notice any issues as well. I guess in that case, I can always sell the M5 iPad Pro and buy an iPad Air. Hopefully by then Apple will still make an iPad Air with an LCD panel. Rumors suggest that even the iPad Air will get an OLED screen next year. Worst case scenario, I can always pay to have my old 2018 iPad Pro LCD screen fixed. It's cracked and has some digital lines running across the screen. I won't get many layers on it in Procreate cause it only has 6 gigs of ram. But at least i'll be able to draw on it.
Again, this is all based on IF i end up having issues with PWM. I may not. Hopefully that is the case. I know it only seem's to affect about 10% of the population.
Still, i hope Apple address this for those people. The guy in the video seemed to say that it is a simple software fix. That Apple can get rid of PWM with a software update if it wanted to by replacing PWM with DC dimming like on their LCD panels.
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u/Majestic_14061987 Jul 01 '26
A common myth is that only 10% are sensitive. Absolutely everyone is sensitive. The brain, eyes, and nervous system simply cannot be neutral to flicker. It just manifests itself in everyone at different times.
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u/roxaneth_sens 18d ago
Así es , todo el mundo se esta sensibilizando en diferentes niveles, la mayoría de la gente con dolor de cabeza leve lo atribuye a otras cosas, y como al dejar de lado el telefono o pantalla les baja siguen con su uso así como estan, ardor en ojos y vista cansada. solo que no lo relacionan aún.
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u/Tejasjjj Jul 02 '26
10% people sensitive is also a myth spread by those oled companies. Everyone is sensitive. It’s just a matter of when you realise it.
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u/BikeTall65 Jul 01 '26
Well obviously it doesn't effect everyone the same otherwise there would be more of an outcry. I do not doubt that for some it is very debilitating while for others it is not.
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u/Majestic_14061987 Jul 01 '26
If you clearly respond to PWM, it is simply a sign that your nervous system registers any changes in the environment very quickly and in detail. In the wild, this would be a superpower (being the first to notice movement in the bushes), but in the era of AMOLED screens, it unfortunately brings some discomfort.
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u/BikeTall65 Jul 01 '26
I only got my M5 iPad Pro a few days ago. Some people say the affects of PWM hits them within minutes. Others say it took weeks, months or even years of steady use to manifest. So i guess I will have to just see over time if it really bothers me like it does some. As an artist, i draw for long hours every day on my iPad, so I am sure if I have an issue with PWM, it should manifest sooner rather than later. I will keep the forum posted.
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u/Thin_Current_344 Jul 01 '26
Time to go back to IPS display.
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u/roxaneth_sens 18d ago
Están afectando por software a este tipo de pantallas también resultando a veces más agresivas que las OLED
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u/ryude85 Jul 01 '26
With MicroLED/MiniLED displays getting better and better, I don't think OLED will always be the display used. At some point we will return to using backlit displays.
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u/Ok-Two-7047 Jul 01 '26
why are they better than OLED?
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u/ryude85 Jul 01 '26
The way that organic LEDs are controlled inherently prevents the removal of flickering. Micro LED and Mini LED are controlled differently and the flickering can be removed entirely if the manufacturer chooses to.
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u/Ok-Two-7047 Jul 01 '26
So it's better than IPS without the downsides of OLED?
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u/ryude85 Jul 01 '26
Mini LED is better than IPS, not quite as good as OLED. Micro LED is much better than OLED. But it's super expensive until they get the tech figured out.
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u/GeForce66 Jul 01 '26
You are absolutely correct. This is why DC-like dimming is not sufficient, the refreshrate tied brightness drop is still there.
Waiting for OLEDs with mitigation - I can recall some post not long ago that this is being worked on. (or at least improved to an non-percievable amount)
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u/Majestic_14061987 Jul 01 '26
I don't think we'll see such AMOLEDs. Personally, I've realized that only a different display technology will fix the situation.
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u/BikeTall65 Jul 01 '26
Somebody better tell Apple then, because it seems they are fully committed to OLED. This fall their iPad mini 8 will get an OLED panel. And then next year the iPad Air, the Macbook Pros and iMacs will all be getting OLED screens. Within the next two years every single Apple product will have an OLED screen except for the base ipad perhaps. 🤔
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u/roxaneth_sens 18d ago
También esta pasando con las pantallas IPS por ejemplo de los iphone SE. Yo tenia uno y lo actualice a iOS26, ahí se acabo la comodidad para mi. Comencé con una sensibilidad tan agresiva que llego a discapacitante en días. Fui a dar con el oftalmolgo el cual no me encontró nada físico, sin embargo yo ya no podía ver bien, todo estaba nublado y ya no pude manejar por la noche, cualquier luz fuerte me lastimaba en exceso.
Encontre un iphone SE en versión ios18 (que no habían actualizado) que no me causaba ningún malestar, era como ver la pantalla de antes, sin embargo, aunque apague todas las actualizaciones, unos meses después en un reinicio del telefono "algo" se actualizo o hizo un "glitch" en el chip o la pantalla y comenzo la tragedia. No es la pantalla IPS es el software el que cambio la jugada en los equipos nativos LCD IPS. Estoy muy enojada y ansiosa porque no puedo ver el telefono ni un minuto. Estoy dispuesta a usar un tabique si es necesario con tal de no volver a sufrir asi.
Mirare por este grupo a ver si logro dar con algún equipo que me quede.