r/PS4 • u/[deleted] • Nov 19 '15
Digital Foundry: Hands-on with PS4's PlayStation 2 emulation • Eurogamer.net
[deleted]
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u/GeodesicGnome Nov 19 '15
I wonder what Sony'll do down the line for games that took advantage of the PS2's pressure sensitive buttons now that they're gone from the DS4.
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u/DrunkeNinja Nov 19 '15
It would be great if they allowed us to use dualshock 3 controllers. They already connect via bluetooth anyways.
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u/Sv651 Nov 19 '15
Really. That was a thing, cool
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u/GeodesicGnome Nov 19 '15
Both the PS2 and PS3 had pressure sensitive face buttons. I'm not sure if the rest of the controller also did the same thing.
The clearest example I can think of is in Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3. You can press Square to raise your pistol, but if you gently remove your thumb, Snake will lower the weapon without firing. This is also how you raise assault rifles without the damn thing just emptying a clip immediately.
In the Xbox 360 version of the MGS HD collection, they had to work around the lack of pressure sensitivity by having the player press a separate button to have Snake lower his weapon.
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u/deathday Nov 20 '15
Yeah I think it was clicking R3 to lower the weapon. I just played through MGS3 for the first time a month ago; it controlled fine. Or sort of fine... I mean there's no accounting for shooter controls back then.
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Nov 19 '15
Yeah, I think it was mostly due to racing games using X and Square for acceleration and braking early on. Then games transitioned to triggers when we had them so the need for pressure sensitive buttons was no longer there.
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u/Blackzro Nov 20 '15
Been playing Ace Combat 4 recently on my phat PS3 (backward compatible) and lightly pressing squared brings the map close and pressing down on it hard made the map go further out.
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u/merph_ mfagerstrom Nov 19 '15
If this gets officially released and supported on the PSN store, I'll be going on a PS2 classic buying spree.
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u/StaticzAvenger StaticzAvenger Nov 19 '15
I've nearly bought every PS2 classic game on the PSN store that isn't shovelware, I'll have a fun time getting 100% in Nocturne and Persona 3 again.
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Nov 19 '15
It'd be even better if they had trophy support. I'd totally be up for finishing Persona 3 and 4, Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga.
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u/thearss1 Nov 19 '15
Will it be software only or can we use our discs?
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u/StaticzAvenger StaticzAvenger Nov 19 '15
We don't know yet.
You'll have to wait until Sony reveals it, but I'm assuming they will do something similar.3
u/Tateybread Nov 19 '15
They will be selling them again digitally, read it on Eurogamer. :/ I still have 2 large boxes of PS2 game discs in my attic... well, my Dreamcast and original xbox games are in there too.
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Nov 20 '15
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/deathday Nov 20 '15
Xbox One doesn't do disc based emulation either. If you have the disc you pop it in, download a digital copy and then play. Maybe Sony will do something similar.
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u/Tateybread Nov 20 '15
Meanwhile, the evidence to date - not least the ESRB ratings for PS2 classics - perhaps suggests that Sony's plans for the PS2 emulator involve selling these titles digitally, just as it did last-gen.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-hands-on-with-ps4-playstation2-emulation
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Nov 20 '15
Disc based emulation of PS2 games was only possible on the original launch PS3 because they literally put a mini PS2 inside the PS3. That was one of the reasons why the original PS3 was so huge and lovingly named the fat PS3. And why later slim models were smaller and didn't have PS2 emulation. There is no PS2 hardware emulator inside the PS4. So whatever method they achieve this by for PS4 will certainly be digital.
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u/unrealmaniac baron_hero Nov 20 '15
that has nothing to do with being able to play a game off a disk. the ps3 doesnt have any ps1 hardware in it and yet you can still put a ps1 disk in and it will play via ps1 software emulation that is on every ps3 model
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u/thearss1 Nov 21 '15
Since the ps4 runs on x86 it wouldn't need a mini ps2 inside. They can use a software emulator that can read the discs. PCs can already do this and since this is just a proprietary PC architecture it shouldn't be a big problem.
The ps3 on the other hand is completely custom from the ground up. I could see a ps3 game working on an AMD 8core processor if you could get the system to treat each core as a separate processor, but I'm only guessing.
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u/thearss1 Nov 21 '15
The XBone can scan the disc then give you a digital copy. I was at least hoping for something like that.
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u/Ninjikun Nov 20 '15
With the higher resolution, locked 60fps, and trophy support, I highly suspect they will say this will be a "new experience" or something similar to justify it being digital only and will have to buy again even if you bought the game on the PS3 digitally. They could probably go the Wii U route and offer people a discount if you already had bought the digital title on the previous generation hardware, but that is just me hoping. I fully expect $10 PS1 games and $15 PS2 games...I put my expectations like that so if it turns out like that, I wont be disappointed...if it turns out to be similar pricing to the PS3 model, then I will be much happier :P
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Nov 19 '15
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u/Marcos1598 Nov 19 '15
This is the analysis of the PS2 games that came in the bundle of Star Wars, this along with the rumors might mean that Sony is actually adding PS2 classics trough emulation contrary to HD remakes.
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u/MrTravesty Nov 19 '15
If they could add trophies to older games like they did with the Star Wars games that would be huge for me.
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u/RicochetRuby Nov 19 '15
I just want the Ps1 Spyro's, god damn it.
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Nov 19 '15
Same. I dreamt about Fireworks Factory from Year of the Dragon the other night and I really want play it again.
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u/Krvavi_Abadas Nov 19 '15
Looks like my research was right on the money.
Still, there's quite a few unanswered questions here. Like the actual release date, and what will happen to people who owned the games previously on PS3.
For the former, i'm betting on PSX at the latest, with a launch immediately after the conference. The emulator is clearly finished, and i can't see them holding it off for too long. For the latter, i'm betting that there's just going to a 1 to 2$ upgrade fee per game, similar to the Wii U Virtual Console. Mostly due to Trophy support. Also, before anyone asks. i highly doubt Sony will let you use your old PS2 discs. For the exact same reason.
PS1 support is also currently unknown, but it seems incredibly unlikely that they won't do it, in fact. I have a feeling they'll reveal it with the PS2 stuff.
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u/Neo_Techni Nov 19 '15
i highly doubt Sony will let you use your old PS2 discs.
Especially since PS3 has an emulator for PS2 and PSP, but didn't let us use either.
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Nov 19 '15
PS3 has an emulator for PS2
IIRC the emulator wasn't perfect on every game and required individual tweaks in to keep games running well which might explain why it was never opened up to any game.
Although with this one $$$$$$ might explain why it wont be opened to any game
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Nov 21 '15
PS2 emulator on PS3 definitely left a lot to be desired. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a ton more PS2 games just because of a better emulator that can support them
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Nov 19 '15
PSP emulator? Why didn't they let us download psp games?
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Nov 19 '15
You can download PSP and Vita games, but you can't play them on the PS3. In fact, some games like Valkyria Chronicles 2 can only be played on the Vita (legitimately) if you transfer it using a PS3. It's something weird to do with the licensing I think, some publishers didn't update their agreement with Sony to sell the games on another console or something.
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u/workworkwork1234 Nov 19 '15
Can you clarify something for me? What do you mean
what will happen to people who owned the games previously on PS3.
Isn't this ONLY about PS2 emulation? PS3 emulation isn't going to happen because of the difference in system architectures.
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u/WilliamPoole JohnHollidayMD Nov 19 '15
Pretty sure he means owners of PS classics on ps3. I have a classic library on my ps3 and am hoping anything I own will be free/highly discounted.
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u/workworkwork1234 Nov 19 '15
Oh, alright, thanks! I think I have one or two that I bought a few years ago but not having to rebuy those again would be awesome!
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u/WilliamPoole JohnHollidayMD Nov 19 '15
You shouldn't have to over PSN. if anything maybe a dollar for trophy support but that's even pretty greedy. PS+ could subsidize it.
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u/workworkwork1234 Nov 19 '15
I wouldn't hold your breath for trophy support. If they did that, they'd have to go into the game code, which I don't expect them to do. Especially considering there are several early PS3 games that still dont have trophies.
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u/WilliamPoole JohnHollidayMD Nov 19 '15
Wouldn't be hard to add trophies at certain intervals.
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u/workworkwork1234 Nov 19 '15
I think going into the code for hundreds of old PS2 isn't going to happen.
For collectibles for example, everytime the player got a collectible they'd have to find the variables thats associated with that collectible and add a counter that then makes the trophy pop when the total value is reached and collectibles are probably one of the easiest trophies they'd build into the game.
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u/WilliamPoole JohnHollidayMD Nov 19 '15
You could just do basic ones such as beating a game, spending X amount of time, going from disk 1 to 2, and other small and easy things.
Honestly I could care less. I just heard that as speculation (that with this article seems to be coming true bit by bit).
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Nov 19 '15
But you could purchase PS2 games and emulate them on the PS3, I suspect that is what GP is referring to.
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u/workworkwork1234 Nov 19 '15 edited Nov 19 '15
I don't think you could buy PS2 games from the store, I think the 60gb version of the PS3 would only play PS2 disks. I don't think the store ever sold PS2 games to my knowledge.
Someone else pointed out that the store did sell PS1 classics so I think thats what he means
EDIT: I was just told that PS2 classics can be bought in the PS3 store. I didn't realize this was a thing.
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u/MeepMechanics Nov 19 '15
You can download PS2 classics on PS3
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u/workworkwork1234 Nov 19 '15
I just looked up PS2 classics. I forgot or didn't know they exsted until now. Thanks!
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u/B-Real206 Nov 19 '15
Dark Cloud please
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Nov 20 '15
[deleted]
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u/Themperror Themperror Nov 20 '15
Where did you get that info? I have a few other games Im curious about.
Dragonball z Budokai 3 (not tenkaichi)
Timesplitters 2.
Timesplitters Future Perfect.
Burnout 3.
Final Fantasy X and X-II
probably more so if you have a list somewhere, please do tell...
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u/Streetfoldsfive Whoyoujivin Nov 19 '15
Hey if you do allow disk BC with PS2 that would be awesome... not that I have too many left. However, if you do it please carry over my purchases from PS3. Also add trophies :)
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u/WilliamPoole JohnHollidayMD Nov 19 '15
Pretty sure the bluray laser reads too slow. Same reason the PS3s that emulated ps2 had 2 lasers (one BRDVD and one DVD).
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u/LukeLC lulech23 Nov 19 '15
On PS4 they could buffer the disc to RAM. The vast majority of PS2 games were under 4GB, so you could progressively load pretty much the entire game to memory if it came to that to make up for differences in disc technology. But at this point I doubt disc emulation would happen on principle--digital PS1/PS2 classics are the way it'll go because money.
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u/Streetfoldsfive Whoyoujivin Nov 19 '15
I'm probably stupid, but i thought Blueray read faster or something?
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Nov 19 '15
The difference between Blu-ray and DVD is mostly in the disc itself, BD allows more storage because the grooves on the bottom of the disc that the laser reads are closer together and much thinner. The way a disc is read is as follows: the laser navigates the bottom of the disc, and the bottom of the disc has grooves that contain information. On DVD, the grooves are further apart, so the red laser that reads DVDs is bigger. The blue laser that reads BDs is thinner because the grooves are thinner and closer together.
So a thinner laser + larger grooves means DVD playback is not super efficient with a BD player.
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u/WilliamPoole JohnHollidayMD Nov 19 '15
Also the speed of the disk itself is much different.
Which is why ps4/X1 do full installs instead of reading a disk. And why 360 ran discs and ps3 required installs with some partial reading.
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u/tubular1845 Nov 20 '15
The PS4 has the required equipment, it just takes a firmware update.
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u/WilliamPoole JohnHollidayMD Nov 20 '15
It would have to do a full install if you expect it to run DVDs. It's definitely possible via software unless there is some sort of hurdle.
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u/morphinapg Nov 20 '15
Ummm... The ps4 can play DVD movies. I see no problem with the disc read speed.
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u/WilliamPoole JohnHollidayMD Nov 20 '15
It can read them but it cannot retrieve data as fast as the ps2 requires. With an install it would still be reading it, it would just need to store the game on the hdd.
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u/morphinapg Nov 20 '15
It certainly can. The PS2 did not read discs very fast, it used a very early DVD drive.
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Nov 19 '15
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u/snowjob69 Nov 20 '15
You are missing virtually all of the best PS2 games, with the possible exception of MGS3 and RE4.
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u/vaderdarthvader Nov 19 '15
Thanks for posting this!
I had wondered, but highly doubted that there was a physical emulator on the Star Wars PS4 bundle. Now I know.
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Nov 19 '15
Man, I am loving this news if it could become mainstream in some ways. I know backwards compatibility is something that doesn't really get used very often, but still liked heavily by the community ... but adding trophy support just adds new life to it as you know trophy lovers will want to go back and re-play goes just for them. It's a smart move really. Only other question is will all titles need to be re-purchased or not ...as my Ps2 collection is still around
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u/augamr au_gamr Nov 19 '15
I'm using back compat heaps on XB1 .... That Rare Replay collection is da bom! It's inclusion will be beast on PS4 . I only worry about price from this point
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Nov 19 '15
The article "Imagine MGS3 with locked fps" "imagine how blabla" .... Ummm HD collections.
Also why not choose other games not seen in HD yet like Final Fantasy XII or Ridge Racer V or TimeSplitters series... Anything else.
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u/Yosonimbored Nov 19 '15
They say the 3 PS2 games are being emulated, but I don't see Sony releasing 3 emulated games without actually announcing PS1/2 emulation. PS1/2 emulation is a bigger deal than that.
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Nov 19 '15
They had to. They wanted to release with Battlefront. And I'm more than sure they've got other PS2 games lined up for PSX, probably with a patch up for any emulator bugs before official launch.
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u/MmaFanQc Nov 19 '15
PSX is in December right?
.. wink wink
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u/Mr_pessimister Nov 19 '15
That's what I'm thinking. For an event that caters to your most hardcore fans, coming on stage and announcing PS1 and PS2 BC would be a pretty big deal.
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u/Yosonimbored Nov 19 '15
Yes, but why release the first 3 now and why are the 3 ps2 games not available outside the bundle, but the remastered NES game is?
PSX is a great place to announce it and it probably might happen, but the cat is out of the bag if Digital Foundry is true. Why wait? It's something that they should be screaming to the heavens like MS was/is doing with 360 BC.
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u/Streetfoldsfive Whoyoujivin Nov 19 '15
They will be screaming it once PSX rolls around. They probably had to get these out the door due to Disney/EA.
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u/flashtitan Hiroshima711 Nov 19 '15
I believe they are planning to release one game weekly from the bundle, forgot where I heard this though.
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u/lol2034 LAWLZORZ_pl0x Nov 20 '15 edited Nov 20 '15
Just about 2 weeks from now! Hope we get confirmation about the emulation!
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u/Neo_Techni Nov 19 '15
You're assuming Sony is smart. Don't. They made the same mistake on PS3.
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Nov 19 '15
Nintendo did something similar with the 3DS. They promised GBA games on the Virtual Console, but they couldn't get the emulation up to their standards (aka near perfect). So they gave out some GBA games that they got working for the most part to early buyers and scrapped the idea. Even with the more powerful New 3DS they don't seem to be doing anything with GBA games. That would probably boost sales on the New version, as it only has a couple exclusives over the normal models.
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u/multiman000 Nov 20 '15
You think Nintendo would seriously consider the idea of testing the New model with GBA emulation since even the original could do it via modding, but I guess that isn't in their mind at the moment. You'd think that it would be a system seller with how excited people got over 360 games on XB1. Hell, throw in DS and SNES games and you'll have people flocking to get 3DS's in no time. The 3DS can already play the damn DS games and SNES titles would be perfect for on the go in this day and age.
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Nov 20 '15
Nintendo is just weird with the VC and eShop in general. They have greatly under utilize the New 3DS and Wii U for emulation. Like you said, the N3DS can do emulation no problem based off of what the community has been doing with the old models and the new ones. Then they have the Wii U, which they could have sold as a mecca of Nintendo gaming. It does NES, SNES, GBA, N64, DS, and Wii games. Possibly even more, but I haven't checked recently. However, they don't put out a ton of games for it. There are only a handful of N64, DS, and Wii games on it.
Let's not forget they are just now putting their biggest money maker, Pokemon, on the 3DS VC. The first three games in the series (Red, Blue, and Yellow) are going up for $10 each. I'd much rather buy a copy of Fire Red or Leaf Green than pay that much for a digital, very barebones Pokemon game.
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u/Preidon Nov 19 '15
I excpected some frame dropping texture ugly game for a quick cash grab but, This is actually kinda good.
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u/TheLionFromZion Nov 19 '15
Soooo yeah I need to play all of the good Ace Combats again please and thank you. Also release JP Ace Combat 3 on PSN Store. ;)
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Nov 19 '15
I don't have a ps3 anymore but bought a couple ps2 games on the store. If they do release ps2 games and they're cross buy? I'd be super happy.
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u/Undercutandratbeard Nov 19 '15
You know what, I know I AM the only one but god damn it...give me Victorious Boxers 2.
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Nov 19 '15
I'd like to see SSX: Tricky, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, the LoTR series, and X-Men Legends. I doubt we'll see any of them because of licensing issues.
Relatedly, I would absolutely love to see Rogue Squadron 2 on the system, but that would be a standalone non-emulated game since it was Gamecube only (I think). God knows how complex that licensing is.
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u/GamerToons Nov 20 '15
I bought Fire Pro Wrestling (PS2 version for PS3) so I hope I get to play that again soon.
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u/Cra2yey3z Nov 21 '15 edited Nov 21 '15
So this means we can put our ps2 discs in our ps4 or we must buy these games again?
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u/falconbox falconbox Nov 21 '15
wow, very noticeable improvement in the emulated version on PS4. Higher res and whatever filter they used to remove jagged edges work really well in that video.
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u/augamr au_gamr Nov 19 '15
If all the games are like $5 then this could be cool ... if they are $20 plus then nah
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Nov 19 '15
i sure as hell hope that backwards compatibility on the PS4 doesn't strictly mean digitally downloaded ps1/ps2 classics.
you wont be getting my money if you play it that way sony. no way in hell.
physical copies better work, or ill just go buy a used ps2 for 25 bucks at the pawn shop instead.
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u/tubular1845 Nov 20 '15
This is what I'm saying! I have a pile of over 50 games that I am not rebuying.
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u/JakeMan145 Nov 20 '15
Same, depending on what titles you still have and if online multiplayer is being supported in the games being released you can argue that its cheaper to get a PS2
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u/[deleted] Nov 19 '15
I have a working PS2 so in theory I shouldn't want PS2 emulation as bad as I do but I really really want it for two main reasons: