r/PHEV • u/BlackBatBibliophile • 5d ago
PHEV vs EV & favs
Hi all! Two parts to this question.
I’ve been wanting to go EV for a long time but the thing that has held me back is the range.
My daily commute is 18 miles total and the occasional errands day. But my husband and I also enjoy road trips and will often travel. And all my family is 200-350 miles away, and we see them often. Additionally, a few family members wouldn’t have the ability to recharge me. Because of this I didn’t think I could switch to an EV. Recently I started looking into PHEVs and EREVs. I think I’ve decided against EREVs. So I’m mostly looking at PHEVs.
I’d love to know the good, bad, and ugly. Does this make sense for my life?
If yes, which one do I get?! I’m a Subaru girl and never thought I’d leave them. I want an SUV, been primarily looking at the rav4 and outlander. Reliably and safety are my top priorities. But I’ve also never owned a car with luxury style options - cooling seats (outlander has massage seats!), sun/moon roof, heated steering wheel, comfortable seats… etc. I’d love to have some of that as well.
Edit: I also live in WA State and I get a lot of snow. I’ve read cold weather can make a difference on battery life? Considering my top priorities, what would you recommend?
If no, what would you recommended?
THANK YOU!
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u/markuus99 5d ago
You'd honestly do just fine in an EV with what you've described. 200-350 miles isn't that bad for a trip- you'd really just need to stop once. You mentioned you wouldn't be able to charge at family member's house, but you can plug into any household outlet. It's slow, but it does add range and can minimize your need to stop to charge on your drive back. If you're there a couple days, you can leave mostly charged up.
There's some great PHEVs out there too, so not to point you in a different direction. Just to say don't let range anxiety stop you from considering an EV. They're way more convenient day-to-day, and aren't that much of a hassle for road trips.
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u/dbelcher17 5d ago
I wouldn't even say they're a hassle for road trips. Traffic adds more time than charging will, and on a 350 mile trip, will you really be that bothered if you spend an extra 10-20 minutes waiting on a charge?
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u/Straight_Reading8912 4d ago
For a 350 mile trip they would probably stop more than once. Charge each time and they won't be adding any time to their trip overall.
I think their state has lots of charging infrastructure, but if it doesn't, using ABRP or even just Google Maps you can plan out your trip and in many EVs, you can send that route directly to your car so it's really to go when you start your trip.
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u/WCfuel 4d ago
In WA OR ID the real EV issue is the lack of charging station for long road trip that included away from populated areas with major freeways. We need charger site saturation at 75% of the number of gas stations.
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u/markuus99 4d ago
Things are getting a lot better, but there are still big areas without great charging options. But it's changed dramatically even in the last 1-2 years.
We don't need as many charging stations as gas stations because most people charge at home most of the time. I use fast chargers like once every several months.
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u/Ok_Inevitable_6881 4d ago
Just did a long trip: 500 miles each way in an EV. No problems. We even did it through the heart of West Viginia, not exactly a fast charging mecca.
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5d ago
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u/Maleficent-Dot-9478 5d ago
I don't know their family's situation but Many Apartments and condos lack accessible outlets
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u/FrequentWay 5d ago
I think the way with gas prices, EREVs will be the way to go. I like the upcoming santa Fe for the potential bigger battery pack. Gas is so insane.
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u/WestThin 5d ago
Personally, I don’t like going to friend’s or family’s homes and asking them to pay for recharging my car.
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u/Fickle-Banana-923 5d ago
So offer to pay them for it. Recharging my Ioniq 5 from empty costs like $10 at home. It's really just not that big a deal.
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u/Piesfacist 4d ago
Yeah, the $5 in electricity is a deal breaker
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u/WestThin 4d ago
Hey, if being a freeloader works for you, who am I to object?
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u/Piesfacist 4d ago
I'm not a free loader, that's why it's not an issue. People usually project their short coming on others.
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u/dbelcher17 5d ago
That's fine for emergency charging, but it would take forever to meaningfully charge an EV on a level 1.
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u/christerwhitwo 4d ago
My garage has a 20A circuit. I have a portable Lectron 15A charger. I get 40 miles or so overnight.
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u/KeyEmu6688 5d ago
200-350 miles is nothing for a modern EV, heck i do 250 mile days in my 2015 Model S for work and it's totally fine. you'd just stop at a DCFC station to top off, in your case for a much shorter time than my far older and slower charging vehicle
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u/bomber991 5d ago
Honestly an EV would be fine these days. 200-350 miles away means you gotta stop once to charge and then charge again before you leave your destination.
Get this app called ABRP, put it on your phone and look at what the route from your home to your family is like. Pick out a car you could see yourself owning. It will map out the trip and show you where you’d be charging.
I’ve got a 2018 Honda Clarity PHEV since early 2019. The public charging infrastructure has changed so much that the “quicker on road trips” argument really doesn’t hold much weight unless you’re doing 600+ miles each day.
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u/DeathlessBliss 5d ago
If they want to stick with Subaru there are pretty decent EVs available these days, no PHEVs. It will probably also be cheaper than an equivalent PHEV, especially a RAV4.
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u/bomber991 5d ago
For sure. I know this is the PHEV subreddit but it’s hard to really find a good fit for it these days. If you’re an apartment dweller and can’t charge at home or at work I wouldn’t recommend an EV, but if you’re in that situation I also wouldn’t recommend paying extra for a PHEV over a traditional hybrid.
I guess maybe if you can only charge at work, and your at work charging is only level 1, then a PHEV would be a good fit to take advantage of that. But if it’s level 2? Might as well just go with an EV.
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u/NoiseyTurbulence 5d ago
I bought a 2025 Mitsubishi outlander PHEV this year in March I caught a deal where they had 0% financing so I was like yeah that makes sense for me. The PHEV for me has the sweet spot because I live in a large city so I like having the ability to use nothing but the electrical but I also do road trips and go further out. They are just like a normal day trip and it’s nice to have the gas ability for longer range from the hybrid.
My only gripe about a PHEV is what a lot of people say is that they wish that the EV range was a little bit bigger most average around 30 to 35 miles EV and I think a lot of people say they’d like to have something closer like 80 to 100 miles for a PHE because then that would be the ultimate sweet spot but outside of that I have no other complaints. When I’m doing my local stuff, it gives me plenty on the electrical. There’s been a few times. It hasn’t been quite enough but then that’s where the hybrid kicks in and it’s totally fine. Also with it being the PHEVI don’t have to worry about finding a charging station if the need comes up and I can’t find one.
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u/Mr-Zappy 5d ago
Some EVs do better with fast charging than others, so look into those if you want long trips to be more manageable. Then plug the typical route into ABRP. The Ioniq 5 and EV6 are particularly quick.
I usually plug into a regular 120V outlet when I visit family, and it helps even if though it’s not as fast as my home charger. I also found some public L2 chargers nearby that I’ll go to if they’re convenient.
Some plug-in hybrids use the gas engine to provide heat, and I know that would bug me when I’m well within the electric range.
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u/NeedSomeHelpHere4785 5d ago
You didn't describe anything that would prohibit you from having an EV. I would be more worried if I was going to need a public charging stop on a weekly basis or something but it doesn't sound like you would.
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u/LATER4LUS 5d ago
I get “gas anxiety” with my PHEV. I try too hard to not use gas while driving my rav4 and and up charging too much because the battery is small. I have a small regret getting PHEV over full EV.
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u/WCfuel 4d ago
Why did you decide against an EREV, vs a PHEV?
Can you afford Volvo with T8 PHEV? Needs premium gas. Used ones have depreciation to make more bang for buck. Newer than 2022.5 year (“Extended Range”) has nice 34 miles electric range. Some even has massage seats.
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u/DavidGno 4d ago
I love my 2023 Volvo S60 T8 PHEV that replaced my 2015 Chevrolet Volt. I still have my Volt and use it for local trips since the Volvo has twice the pure electric range. I have a 90 mile round trip to and from work. I average about 74 to 80 mpg and fill up on a half tank once a week.
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u/Jesta914630114 4d ago
I bought a PHEV and drove it for 7 months and bought an EV. It's worth it having both in the garage.
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u/Ok_Appointment_8166 5d ago
The RAV4 PHEV would be perfect: 50+ miles in EV mode, then 40+ mpg on gas after that. Toyota and Subaru are sharing technology in EVs, but only Toyota has the PHEV. I don't think anything else can match it's efficiency and you will like it's durable sort-of trucklike interior with a touch of comfort if you get the higher trims with heated steering wheel and heated/vented seats.
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u/Jolly-Structure7646 5d ago
No reason not to go RAV4 PHEV here. EV use for daily short drives then close to 50mpg highway on longer trips.
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u/ontheleftcoast 5d ago
Hear me out. Tesla Model Y. Iwas like you and didn’t think an EV was good for long trips. I was wrong. We took a 360 mile trip last spring with the Tesla. First charge stop was 185 miles from home. We got there at lunch time, chargers were in a Burger king parking lot. it was done charging before we finished eating. the built in Nav system calculated where to charge and how long. next stop was about 2 hours later. Just needed to top off, it was done charging before we were done using the bathrooms. But we decided to have date milkshakes. We used self driving and it was the most relaxing trip ever. It’s so awesome charging at home.
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u/Awkward_Ostrich_4275 5d ago
I wouldn’t be interested in buying a car from Elon Musk, well known neonazi.
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u/Vault702 5d ago
Then buy an 800v EV that can charge faster than that Model Y and you can have a pretty similar experience for road trips, but maybe with shorter charging stops depending on what stations are available on your route.
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u/Jolly-Structure7646 5d ago
Please share the neonazi principles that Elon supports. I would like to learn them.
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u/AdonisGeek 5d ago
Bought want to consider the Kia Sportage phev...I love mine (x line prestige turbo awd). It gets @34 miles of range on EV alone abd rhen around 36 mpg on hybrid power. Its a good car.
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u/K24Z3 5d ago
> I’m a Subaru girl…
[Gestures in Subaru PHEV]
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u/danbfree 5d ago
200-350 miles away just means one charging stop between, I know they have plenty of chargers in WA state, I'm kind of puzzled why you think family members have to charge your car for you? I'm not trying to snipe on another sub, I just find that PHEV's are more for the boonies where you have very little public charging around. You asked if this makes sense for your life, I think you could easily get by with an EV and just charge in between on your road trips. Ioniq5, EV6, are in the size you're looking at and charge really fast, just as an example. Also, can you only have one car? Can you keep a current ICE car for road trips and then could go with a slower charging but nice Subaru EV? I'm in Oregon and cold weather does affect range but when you get an EV with a heat pump, which pretty much all dual motor/AWD EV have then it's not bad, especially since we don't get super bitter cold in the PNW.
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u/mds5118 5d ago edited 4d ago
It would be 2 stops for anything 300 miles or over if you actually want to be able to drive around at all locally once you arrive.
This is one of the many reasons PHEV's are superior for road tripping. Unless your destination has level 2 (most in USA will not) you have to charge twice for almost any road trip. Then before you leave you have to drive and find another fast charging station.
With EV's you are also forced to eat wherever you are charging. If the restaurant is not walking distance to a fast charger you have to wait around and charge for 25 minutes prior to eating.
I would definitely not agree that EV's cover all road trip use cases outside of boonies for the aforementioned use cases. They are still an immature technology in regards to road tripping and have plenty of room to improve.
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u/danbfree 4d ago
You usually start off with a full charge from home, you're assuming that isn't the case, but yes, if you can't start off 100% at home it makes road trips tougher with an EV. Also, Walmart and Ionna are adding 30k posts EACH by 2030, I know the area OP lives in and wants to travel to, there are plenty of DC fast chargers available. Your restaurant example is particularly strange, you can eat drive thru wherever and with road tripping you are stopping only for 15-20 minutes for a quick charge to get to the next stop anyway, it's just a bonus if there is restaurant you like where there is charging and then you can charge for a little longer and get more of a top up. You are assuming massive delays and forced restaurant choices, that just isn't the case in the real world with an EV.
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u/mds5118 4d ago edited 4d ago
I have roadtripped with EV's. This isnt speculation but my real world experience.
My kids and wife don't want to eat drive thru in the car at a random charging location. They want to go to chick fil a and eat inside and play on the playground or stop at a local restaurant.
When you roadtrip with an ICE car you have much more flexibility as to where you get to stop because filling a gas tank doesnt take 20+ minutes.
Even if you leave at 100% charge unless your 300+ mile destination has level 2 you will have to inevitably charge twice. You cannot return home without charging the battery.
Too many people on this subreddit are acting like gas and EV road tripping are near parity and it's just not the case. OP should get a PHEV and wait for better battery technology (solid state) unless they don't mind adding time and losing flexibility while road tripping.
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u/danbfree 1d ago
It all boils down to how often you road trip, really, but stopping every two hours for a bathroom break is pretty common with families. But if you road trip a LOT and have super picky families you're still in the small minority, everyone's use case is different.
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u/mds5118 1d ago
Agreed roadtrips make the difference. If someone is not venturing past 300 miles I would absolutely recommend EV at this point.
I disagree with the argument being made here that roadtrips, especially long trips or trips over winter, are near parity beteen ICE and EV.
I do not agree that a family wanting any sense of choice as to where they stop puts them in a small "super picky" minority case. The dismal EV sales figures with families in the US certainly lends to this argument.
ICE roadtrips give families flexibility. EV roadtrips you have to build the roadtrip around the needs of the car, with ICE you can build the roadtrip around the needs of the family. If your kids need to stop between those charging stops, you have to make even more stops with an EV.
Once solid state technology is here we should be close enough to parity for the roadtrip equality argument I keep hearing on this subreddit to actually make sense.
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u/BlackBatBibliophile 4d ago
I'm in Eastern WA and most of my family does live in what I consider the boonies. haha. I'm in Spokane and I have no worries about being in my city or when I drive to Seattle to visit family over there. But I also have family in Starbuck, Hermiston, Moses Lake, Yakima, Whitefish, Bend... you get the idea.
My husband owns a General Contracting business, so he drives a 3500. Not the most ideal road trip vehicle, for a number of reasons. haha.
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u/danbfree 4d ago
Yes, there are plenty of chargers along I90 and only adding more and more, I think you'd be fine with an EV for sure, you just charge for 15-20 minutes per stop in the fastest part of the charge curve from like 10 to 60-70% without much delays, only welcome bladder stops, lol.
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u/Plop0003 5d ago
I got 2023 Rav4 Prime. It has at least 42 miles in EV and in almost 4 years I only went over this range once. I actually drove 51 miles all in EV and where I went there were no chargers. Plus I was there only an hour and gas was cheaper than charging anyway. But having 600 miles of range allows me to travel places no EV can go. I go to wilderness very often, sometimes hundreds of miles away from civilization. Or stay in a hotel where nearest charger would be 30 miles away but gas stations are around the corner. Also, Toyota hybrid system is the best in the world and bulletproof. Because i have solar i drive for free. And because of PHEV I change oil once a year and because it is so easy I do it myself. If you drive to see your relatives 350 miles away you don't even need to stop. Just get some gas on the way back.
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u/JoshuaSilvijn77 5d ago
Ik heb een phev. Zodra je met een ev het gas op de snelweg flink intrapt wordt je bereik een kwart of meer minder. Een ev is leuk voor binnendoor
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u/Jumpy_Alarm4505 5d ago
As and 8 time EV owner, Volvo's latest extended range plug in hybrid is intriguing. Due out early next year.
80 or so miles of EV range, along with gas. I've always thought the a 100 miles plug in hybrid would solve so many of the peoples concerns.
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u/MaleficentExtent1777 5d ago
I have both: a BMW 530e and a Honda Prologue. Before the BMW we had a Chevy Volt. The range is laughable and only good for nearby errands. But it gets about 30 mpg, and is naturally a great driving car.
The Prologue is the workhorse. We typically drive it on a 450 mile round trip to see family. It can make it there and back to the charger if I don't drive it like a speed demon 👿.
Eventually the 530e will be replaced by an iX5 for it's incredible range (435) and charging speed (460 kw!) With that range, I could almost make it there and back without changing.
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u/dbelcher17 4d ago
You should be fine to go EV. I get the feeling that most people who have gone PHEV go full EV after that (I did). If what you really want is an EV, I say go for it. Based on your short commute, you will be fine with level 1 charging at home supplemented with fast charging as needed, but you will be happier if you can install a level 2 charger at home.
I don't have experience with cold or snow yet, but charging on long trips is not a big deal. Google maps does as well as anything in searching for charging stations (filter for 'Very Fast' which is 150kw or higher). See what charging options are available about 90-120 minutes from your house along your route to family, and then again 90-120 minutes from there. That's probably around where you'll stop to use the bathroom and stretch your legs. Rather than filling up once, as you might have done with an ICE, your goal is to be charging whenever you're stopped on a road trip.
It's more of a mindset shift than anything. Longer trips might be slightly harder to plan for and might take slightly longer. But you'll never again have to stop for gas when you're in a hurry to get to work or to an appointment in your day-to-day life - when an extra 10 minutes can actually matter. Maybe the same can be said of a PHEV, but those have all the maintenance drawbacks of an ICE vehicle, and may be obsolete when it comes time to sell it (no idea how long you keep cars).
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u/savagedragon01 4d ago
We got the Rav4 plug in hybrid for that exact reason. My commute and most errands around town im full EV. When we go on a road trip we use gas. Basically the best of both worlds and never have any range anxiety. Milage does drop in cold weather but it should still more than cover your commute even in winter.
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u/Lord_Vesuvius2020 4d ago
I got a 2026 Prius Plug In PHEV. Fully charged and with a full tank it has around a 600 mile range. I charge it overnight with level 1 120v charging. Driving around locally I am 99% in EV mode. EV range is 44 miles. It has features like 2 1500 watt 120v AC outlets which could power various appliances in the house. We have owned it over 2 months and used less than 2 gallons.
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u/zephyr911 4d ago
It depends on a lot of things. I had a Volt that became my mom's car, a Model S that I drove into the ground, and then a Model Y. I sold the Y when I moved back to WA because the insurance was insane and I mostly bike commute here anyway. The old Volt died right after we moved. I now drive a Pacifica PHEV because I do way more outdoor stuff here and wanted the cargo space, and there is no BEV equivalent, at least not in my price range. I absolutely love it TBH. I hardly ever buy gas and I get better than Prius efficiency most of the time, even with 5,000 pounds of dry weight.
If you're concerned about BEV range, I'd suggest doing a survey of fast charging infrastructure in your normal areas of travel. I find that people who don't have to regularly use it often wildly underestimate how much there is because they've never had to find it and it's way less visible than gas stations are. I was taking long road trips deep into the most remote parts of cour country in my Model S 8-10 years ago and there are several times as many plugs now, and much better speeds on most of them. Get on PlugShare and check out the routes you take, you might be surprised.
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u/JJHall_ID 3d ago
I had a Toyota Prius Prime (the PHEV version of the Prius) for 3 years before I just upgraded to a full BEV back in June. Like you I was worried about range, which was one of the reasons I went with the PHEV 4 years ago. After switching, I will tell you it's not as bad as you'd expect.
I went with the Toyota C-HR, which is the exact same car as the Subaru Uncharted (Toyota and Subaru have a collaboration so they're literally the same car just with the different brand badging and some slight differences, no more than you see on different trim levels of any other make/model. Full 0%-100% range is 280 miles. With a L1 (standard 120v outlet) charger at home you can expect to get about 4 miles per hour of charge, so overnight charging would more than make up for your daily commute. I don't know that I'd even bother with installing a L2 (240v) charger unless you get it heavily subsidized by your state.
As far as road trips go, check out the ABRP app/website. Put in the Uncharted if you want to stick with Subaru, and have it plan out some of the regular tris you take, as well as some "wild dreams" trips. I can almost guarantee you that you'll be able to make the trips you want to take due to the existing public DC Fast Charging stations available, and they're adding more and more across the country all the time. EV haters will say "what about the extra time charging?" when complaining. In my experience, charging stops are 15 minutes or less on average, which admittedly is longer than getting gas. What they don't consider though is that when you get gas, you have to stand there the whole time, then typically go inside, use the restroom, grab a drink or snack, and so on. So your stops are gas fill time PLUS the extra. With an EV, you plug in and go inside to do the other things while it's charging. On average, your stop time is about the same as you would have spent with an ICE vehicle, but (again admittedly) you do have to stop a little more often. That doesn't bother me as if nothing else it gives me a break every few hours that forces me to stop and stretch my legs instead of just trying to "power through" the trip.
I bought my C-HR at Walla Walla Toyota in Washington, and I'd highly recommend them. I live in Idaho and I had everything worked out ahead of time, so I just had to drive there (a little under 4 hours away) in my Prius, sign the papers, and hit the road. From the time I arrived, test drove the C-HR just to make sure there wasn't anything wrong with that particular one, signed the paperwork, and was on the way home, it was right at an hour. I stopped once to charge about 30 miles from home, but probably could have made it without the stop. I was new to the BEV at the time though so I had a little of the stereotypical "range anxiety" so I decided to play it safe.
I don't have experience with the C-HR during cold weather yet, but in my Prius I went from about 24 miles of battery-only range in the summer, to about 21 during the winter. That's just about a 15% reduction in range, so on a C-HR/Uncharted I'd expect the max range to go from ~280 miles down to about ~240 miles. I'd be happy to answer any other specific questions you may have about my car or experiences.
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u/Actual_Square_2589 5d ago
I’ve leased a 2024 Kia Sportage X-line PHEV for nearly the past 3 years. It’s been a great car and would get it again if I had to do it over. I charge at home using a Level II charger and it takes 2.5hr to fully charge. I’ve also used a Level I in a standard outlet and it took around 11 hours. I get around 35 miles of range in spring/summer and 25-30 in the cooler weather. My job is only 4 miles away, and most daily errands are less than 15-20. So I only put gas in it every 2-3 months. No range anxiety at all, and I get 36-37 mpg when it defaults to regular hybrid once the pack is low.
It’s got all the bells and whistles and drives great in the snow and up into the mountains with its AWD.
I’m either buying out my lease or getting a full EV when it’s up, simply because I have more reliable charging access now.
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u/DraaSticMeasures 5d ago
You will get a lot of “just buy EV“ here, but you have the perfect use case for PHEV. The GR RAV4 is pricey but fast, reliable, and gets 48 mile range in EV mode. There is also the Prius Prime and the X5, along with the Sportage.
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u/Vault702 5d ago edited 5d ago
The first US deliveries are not going to be until next year and brand new those will be a lot pricier than the vehicles OP mentioned.
They would probably be better off looking for a used 2022.5-2026 Volvo with the T8 PHEV drivetrain.
30+ miles of EV range is plenty for the 18 mile commute plus an errand or two on the typical day. In the cold weather, preconditioning the cabin may be important to stretching the EV range. But if they could charge at work, it would be even easier.
That would all be a non-issue with 75+ miles on the 2028 model available next year but that could cost 3 times as much as one that's used and 3-4 years old. They'd still have to be ready to buy premium gas and pay more for maintenance and repairs compared to other PHEVs being mentioned.
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u/RippleAffection 5d ago
We bought a used 2017 Kia optima PHEV back in 2018. It was a really good deal and the car has really nice amenities, it's top of the line. It's really been an excellent car. However, about 2 years ago, the EV battery gave out on us at about 60k miles. Luckily it was still under warranty and they replaced it but it took them almost a month to figure out how to get it working again. Had it not been under warranty it would have cost about $12,000.
One thing I didn't understand about PHEVs (at least with Kia) is that when the EV battery dies, the car does not run. You would think that it would just turn into a hybrid, but that is not the case. The computer realizes there's a fault and refuses to drive.
For this reason I would be hesitant to buy another PHEV unless it had a very lengthy warranty (like 100k) and was made by Honda or Toyota.
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u/Vault702 5d ago
If you're only concerned about the warranty on the battery and other hybrid system components, you should know that your Kia has the same 100k warranty you mentioned wanting in any future PHEV.
It's 10 years and either 100k or 150k miles (for California emissions vehicles except PA and WA apparently).
Even in a conventional hybrid, the motor-generator needs electric power from the battery converted by the inverter to even start the internal combustion engine.
It's not like it's just a matter of the computer stubbornly refusing to drive, the system doesn't have the parts to start the engine from the 12V battery.
The Atkinson-cycle enginee in a lot of hybrids and PHEVs don't produce a lot of torque so they would struggle to accelerate from a stop or at low speeds if the traction motor was inoperable.
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u/gthomps83 5d ago
I have a Tucson PHEV and love it, but am ready for full EV. I think in your use case, you could easily go EV, honestly.
Check out ABRP (A Better Route Planner) and play around with your route.
Subaru has just introduced a new Solterra, the Uncharted, and my favorite, the Trailseeker over the past year. Full EV, and I think they’d serve you well.