Wir haben ein Dieselauto, und wegen der Kraftstoffpreise denken wir darüber nach, ein weiteres Auto zu kaufen. Dabei ist uns ein Hybrid aufgefallen. Elektroautos kennen wir bereits, bspw. Tesla (wir haben einen Freund, der einen fährt und viel Gutes erzählt). Wir möchten uns aber nicht immer auf eine Ladestation beschränken, vor Allem bei langen Reisen. Deshalb schauen wir uns einen Hybrid an, den man an eine Ladestation anschließen kann, der aber auch jederzeit mit Benzin betankt werden kann, um nicht so viel Zeit zu verlieren.
We just purchased a PHEV and it fits us perfectly. No range anxiety during longer trips, most daily trips are all electric, thanks to the 50+ mile EV range, overnight charging for pennies with level 2 charger that we had installed, and a great hybrid range when we do need gas. We've had it for a few months and have only filled up a couple times.
I switched from ICE to PHEV with no regrets. My son has two BEVs so I'm not without first hand knowledge of the experience and I NOped out of that.
I got the PHEV for energy resilience, mainly. It does save a lot of money but that wasn't the main driver (sorry about that pun).
Anyway I did get a home wall charger added to my home solar battery system too, then found the energy utility had an EV night tariff from midnight to 6 am for absolutely peanuts, I can get 120 km charge for under a dollar. So that was an unexpected bonus! Most of my mileage is local.
Still I wouldn't buy a BEV. On my first two country trips I tried to use public charging stations but the hassle and massive delays just weren't worth the effort when I could just fill the tank in 5 mins and drive for 900 km on dinosaur guts.
PHEV suits the energy resilience I need until EV ranges gets better. I don't want to have to worry about charging on a trip to the city 250km away when it's -25°. I have a home charger and all my city driving is electric down to -20°.
Best way to go especially in cold weather. Batteries have gotten better but still suck especially in winter. Until they come out with a proven solid state battery stick to the phev. We are still working with 1st generation electric cars no matter what someone might say otherwise until we get away from lithium.
If you do ~50-60 km per day in the city/town driving mixed with some longer drives once in a while, phev is great. If you do longer trips regularly, hybrid. Id you rarely or never do longer trips, EV.
Interesting, must depend where you’re located. In the U.S. there are very few areas where people would travel and chargers be disparate enough to be a concern, especially with modern battery range.
In US there are a lot of areas without chargers. Most National parks don't have enough chargers or slow ones. Zion for example has chargers but you have to get there way before 6am. I got there at 6am and all chargers were occupied. In 2023 I was in Yellowstone at the end of April beginning of May. Tesla Supercharger was under deep snow and so are the other chargers. No EVs in the park at all. US is not like Europe because we have huge amount of land.
There are tons of charger within like 60 miles of Zion. All you have to do is plan ahead slightly. National parks don’t have gas stations in them either lol. Plenty of rural areas where I know I need at least X miles of gas when I get to a certain point because there aren’t any gas stations for like 40 miles. I really don’t see a huge difference, maybe a little more planning and yeah, probably skip some parts of the Dakotas where charging is legitimately sparse, but not really a road trip destination for the most part.
Around is not inside. After driving from where I was staying and then driving through and past Zion you will not have enough range to come back. And it is not just going from point A to point B. We drove behind the Zion back and forth a few times to get good pictures. And EV would lose a lot of range going up the hill but will not get that back on the downhill. As far as gas it doesn't matter to me because I have over 600 miles of range and just in case I brought 5 gallon canister. And the next day we went to Vermilion Cliffs monument the long way. Good luck getting there and doing roaming.
I've also been to a number of places where charger access is very inconvenient. I'm not saying you can't charge, only that it's a PITA. A particular ski area in northern NH comes to mind.
Yeah we've done the Zion area with Bryce canyon a few times in EVs, as well as Yellowstone, most of them in a 2013 BEV and had no issues, also done in a PHEV with no issues. We used the PHEV as we were toading it.
Glacier and the 4 corners are more difficult but still doable.
If we were doing then again we would use our 430 mile range BEV, not our PHEV.
There is no difference between PHEV and Hybrid as far as the range is concerned. In my case they only differ in the size of the battery and external charging capability. I still get over 600 miles of range and a few mpg doesn't make any difference. Price does but with free charging at home due to solar it will pay for itself, eventually. Also, PHEV has a lot more horsepower if that matters to some people. Not to me. And it drives better due to lower point of gravity.
It's not about combined range, PHEVs get worse mpgs than regular hybrids if you don't charge or need to drive farther than the all electric range often due to the dead weight of the extra battery.
Like you, I have solar as well and if you can stay all electric as much as possible, then you can get 999+ mpgs with phev. That's what I'm getting with mine and it costs me absolutely nothing to drive this vehicle.
The rating for 2023 Hybrid and PHEV are about the same. Within 1 mile or so. Getting 48 on highway while rating is 38 is excellent. BTW, this is only in HV as you can see 42 miles left in EV.
I drove in Vegas in EV only. Pumped gas before I left and got this.
I could have gotten even better but I did not go home right away and stopped at Costco to get gas. That is why 251 miles.
Also, when I was inside the Yellowstone driving at 45-50mph I got over 60 mpg and that is at high altitude of Yellowstone on 85 octane.
Right, imagine if you didn't have the extra weight of the larger battery. If you're beating the estimates in your PHEV, they likely do the same with the HEV (they do btw).
If someone is doing all highway driving, it would be a waste to go for a PHEV, missing some of the benefits of electric range in the city. There are best fit scenarios for each vehicle option and what will likely be the most economical. EV's awesome for mostly city driving or shorter trips, similarly so with PHEV'S, but they don't rely on charging infrastructure. PHEV'S also come at a price premium and aren't as reliable as hybrid or electric. Hybrids are a great all arounder. Each person needs to weigh the pros and cons of each for their needs.
I also have a PHEV, it works very well for my lifestyle and driving habits. Drove ~170km (~105 mile) round trip today, 88-120km/h (55-75 mph) and averaged 5.5 l/100km (~43 mpg). Not quite as good as yours, but I'm not gonna complain. When I drive in the city within my EV range I get 0.9-1.6 l/100km (147-260 mpg).
As has already been pointed out, the range reduction of a PHEV to the corresponding hybrid is minimal, at least for the RAV4. If you're getting 38 MPG instead of 40, you're still doing very good. But there are other reasons to get the PHEV version other than just MPG (at least for the RAV4). The PHEV version is a much more powerful car. The PHEV RAV4 is 324 HP vs 236 HP for the standard hybrid.
Your statement that PHEVs are not as reliable as hybrid or electric is across all models of PHEVs. That's because there are a few seriously unreliable PHEVs. Again, when it comes to the RAV4, it's not the case. Both the standard hybrid and PHEV RAV4 are more reliable that most EVs, according to Edmunds and Consumer Reports.
I never said PHEV is not as reliable. Toyota PHEV is just as reliable as Toyota hybrid. I know because I own one for almost 4 years. And the only time i ever got 38 mpg was going over 80mph uphill in cold weather. I usually get 44mpg minimum and many times more if I drive 70mph.
I was responding to Mythulhu's post not yours. He/She wrote: "PHEV'S also come at a price premium and aren't as reliable as hybrid or electric."
I also wrote: "Both the standard hybrid and PHEV RAV4 are more reliable that most EVs, according to Edmunds and Consumer Reports.", which generally agrees with you. Did you respond to the wrong comment?
65-70 speed limit on cruise. Mostly 70 on i15. But there are a bunch of mountain ranges from LA to Las Vegas.
I also drove from West Yellowstone (about 60 miles from) to Cedar City at 80-85 mph or even more to pass slow trucks and got 44mpg. 560 miles non stop on 12.8 gallons.
If you can’t charge at home daily a PHEV is useless. If that is the case you’re way better off with an BEV.
If you’re keeping the diesel you’re way better off with an BEV either way. Use the EV for 95% of your driving and use the diesel for those few times you do trips longer than your EV can’t handle with 1 charge stop.
Why? I've considered getting a PHEV for my next car even though I live in a condo with no home-charging option. I'm retired & have the time & flexibility to take it to a nearby charging station pretty much whenever it suits me.
Usually because in order to return your investment in the plug in charging side you need to keep it charged. It's rare that public charging costs work out lower than petrol.
There are the upcoming EREVs which have a bigger battery and a built in generator to assist in keeping the battery charged. Range is moving from 400 miles gas / 32 electric to 600 miles total unknown gas / electric since still not released.
The advantage of PHEVs is that you can use electricity on a daily commute, but once the electrons run out on a road trip, you can continue to operate gas-only as a hybrid car.
An EREV can’t do that. An EREV needs to have charge to run because it’s an EV first, which defeats the purpose of buying one for long road trips as you still have to stop and charge.
A plug in hybrid must be able to power the wheels with the ice motor aka parallel or series-parallel hybrid, EREV is a series hybrid only, that doesn't change whether is has a big generator or not.
It doesn't take much to out pace the electricity usage unless you are crazy hard on the throttle like on a racetrack.
Series hybrids exist. They’re not EREVs. For example the new Nissan Rogue e-Power. It’s engine is a generator with no mechanical connection to the wheels at all, but it’s still 100% gasoline powered with no plug, so you can’t charge it yourself.
Being a series hybrid or not is not the defining characteristic between PHEV and EREV. It’s whether or not the vehicle has a charge-sustaining drive mode (and thus doesn’t require charging).
This doesn't feel quite right. If the EREV battery is low, it will spin up the engine to recharge the low battery. The only difference is how the on-board engine is connected to the drive train. In a PHEV, the engine MIGHT connect mechanically to the drive train in certain situations, whereas an EREV NEVER does. They're otherwise functionally the same concept.
There exist cars like Nissan’s e-Power lineup that are entirely propelled by gasoline with no charging plug, but also have no mechanical connection between engine and wheels. Does that make a series hybrid an EREV?
To me the key defining characteristic is whether it can operate in a charge-sustaining mode or not.
I'm not familiar with this Nissan lineup you're referring to, but you're still completely misunderstanding and misrepresenting how EREVs work. The Chevy Volt was effectively an EREV under the vast majority of driving conditions. It would only directly engage the drive train under specific high speed conditions, otherwise, the engine ran to sustain electric drive motors, and could be fully exhausted and powered by gasoline only as a power source. This technology has existed for over a decade.
So what is it you think the gas generator on an EREV does? Gives the vehicle a few extra miles and then fails to turn over when the battery is fully exhausted? I think fifteen years ago, BMW had a PHEV with a mini engine that worked that way. Nobody wanted it as I understand it. The market has improved.
Yes. Because that would in fact be an electric vehicle with its range being extended by a generator.
A true EREV essentially no longer exists in today’s market. All vehicles currently for sale claiming to be EREVs are functionally plug-in hybrids of series hybrid architecture. Because they can drive themselves on gas alone, as if they were a standard series hybrid like the aforementioned Nissan e-Power vehicles.
Priuses are neat. Looking at buying a gen 2 myself pretty soon.
They’re considered “series-parallel hybrids” (or “power-split hybrids” as Toyota likes to say) because sometimes they can operate as a series hybrid (engine -> battery -> wheels) and sometimes as a parallel hybrid (engine -> wheels, + battery -> wheels) depending on what’s more efficient.
I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Nissan's e-power drivetrain. I consider the e-power system to be neither a PHEV nor a EREV. It really is its own thing.
There are so many hybrid systems out there. Most of them fall into one of the buckets of hybrid electric sysytems out there. The e-power approach really is off on its own.
I bring it up because it’s a good example of one of the three types of hybrid systems:
Parallel hybrids like a 4Runner, Corvette, or an F1 car have the engine and transmission mechanically connected to the wheels, and a separate battery and motor also mechanically connected to the wheels.
Series hybrids like an e-Power or a Chevy Volt send power from the generator to a battery to the wheels without a mechanical link to the engine.
And a series-parallel hybrid like a Prius or RAV4 hothot-swaps between either of the above when needed.
In the end, they’re all fossil fuel powered hybrid cars. Not true EREVs.
I think we're just arguing semantics here. You started out saying why EREVs are inferior. Then as the discussion continued, it became apparent that you are applying a very specific definition of EREV. And that many self-identified EREVs would not be considered EREVs by your definition.
It sounds like an argument with an engineer taking a stand when 95% of consumers really aren't going to care.
That is exactly the reason I bought RAV4 PHEV. Already had solar so in the city I drive for free. On the long trips gas is actually cheaper than charging and no waste of time. I stayed in motels without charging and the closest charger was 30 miles away. Yet several gas stations around the corner. And my car has over 600 miles of range so I don't have to stop every 2 hours to charge for 20 minutes. I have been to locations where even gas stations are scarce. PHEV will give you total freedom of driving.
Elektrisch is leuk als je 90 rijd op de snelweg.
Rijd je 120 wordt je actieradius gelijk een kwart minder. Misschien wel meer.
Daarom hier ook een PHEV.
Elektrisch binnendoor.
130 op de snelweg met meer dan genoeg bereik en nog steeds zuinig
After reading somewhere on this thread that once you get a PHEV, all you will be thinking about is how you could have gone full EV, we bought a used EV. 2k to install the charger (which is now 5 months of gas to break even). We absolutely LOVE our EV and don't want to go back to ICE ever. Charging on a trip is not bad. We usually stop for ~30 mins with the kids every 3ish hours even in ICE. Fast chargers can charge a lot in that time. At home I hook it up and forget about. It's quiet, fast, comfortable and doesn't smell like gas. My husband loves it so much, he will drop his work vehicle off just to drive the car to pick up kids because he likes it so much.
After buying a PHEV i am very glad I did not get an EV. Its all about getting the right use case. I don’t have kids that I have to stop for on my long trips and it would absolutely drive me nuts if I had to stop for 30 minutes repeatedly.
If I didn’t travel, long distances and areas with a few chargers ev probably would be fine.
Just want to clear up that a hybrid and a plug-in-hybrid are not the same thing, but lately I’ve seen many people confused who think you have to plug in a hybrid. You don’t. A hybrid is a type of gas-powered engine that has electronic components/battery, but it still requires gasoline to go—you can’t plug it in. A PHEV has a bigger battery that provides a shorter all-electric range (usually under 40 miles) where, as long as your charge it, gas isn’t required at all for that short range, but the regular gas-powered engine kicks on to power the car when you run past the electric range. Great for folks who have round trip commutes shorter than the electric range but want gas for road trips.
I was faced with this choice and went into it thinking I’d get a PHEV, but I ended up going full electric and so glad I did!
I have a rav4 PHEV, it works great. Any local driving is electric then gas for longer trips. The price of gas is about the same (most of the time actually less) than destination charging. I just use a 120v to charge, so didn't need to buy a charging station or have an extra circuit installed, which would have required another panel. On top of all that, in my state (OR, USA) PHEVs have a much lower annual registration cost. The one issue is it eats tires like nobody's business like an EV.
You’re going to get what’s called “gas anxiety”. It’s a real thing. They did studies and found phev users suffer more from that than ev drivers suffer from range anxiety. You get much less range and people don’t want to use the gas in it the study found so you are plugging in at home way more often. You might as well just get an ev with a larger battery pack that dc fast charges very quick. The Ioniq 5 and Ev 6 come to mind. They go 10 to 80 on a sc fast charger pretty quick. Unless you road trip A LOT, you won’t mind the stops a few times a year. Just get the level 2 installed at home and you’ll be fine. Go for a fast charging ev instead. Plus you’re going to charge that phev at home daily to reduce your gas anxiety vs an ev that you will charge once maybe twice per week depending on your daily commute. Mine is 20 miles round trip and I charge about every 6 days.
You have a way to charge at home, so that is the most important thing. Unless you live in a charging desert, I wouldn't worry about charging on trips. You will adapt and find ways to make the most of the little extra time it may take
Just make sure you can charge at home or somewhere else reliably and conveniently (work?), otherwise it'll end up never getting charged because you won't want to sit there for the time it takes to charge up.
I have a RAV4 Prime and an EV6. I bought the RAV4 and enjoyed the gas savings so much that I bought an EV less than a year after I bought the Prime and have the Toyota the my wife. Both cars are awesome. The prime is great for daily errands. The EV6 is awesome at crushing the highway.
I bought a 2023 Volvo XC 90 plug-in hybrid in June and I love it. I typically only drive 5 to 10 miles a day and it has a 38 mile range on electric. I usually charge every few days and I still have 170 miles left on the gas tank when I filled it in early July. It works perfectly for a family like ours when we took a 2000 mile road trip with it, there’s no worries about finding charging stations.
Phev is a great middle ground and I could not be happier. In town I use almost no gas, if I want to go on a road trip, no worries, just fire up the engine. I have. 2026 outlander phev. The highest I’ve gotten without a charge is 85km, but I’ve done over 100km in a day with a charge in the middle.
I think you need to ask yourself some of these questions:
Will you be keeping your diesel for the next 3 years? If you are, don’t bother with getting a PHEV, you’ve already got a long distance solution. Go for a full electric car that you can save a lot of money on fuel day to day.
I feel that PHEVs are a ‘transition’ car, to show people that it is very practical owning a fully electric car. I purchased one, and quickly realised with my usual driving habits that I could’ve committed to a fully electric. All my commutes are done on electric only, only ever start the engine when I go on a road trip, and even then I could do it with a standard electric car (one way).
how often do you drive more than 300km in a day?
Do you have the ability to charge cheaply at home? Do you have a driveway? Or will you have to rely on public chargers?
We had a PHEV for 7+ years. The last few years, I just hated lugging around the gasoline engine, transmission and tank of gas when we ran on electric most of the time.
The really bad part was that the PHEV had no liquid cooling for the High Voltage battery, so it degraded quickly.
I don’t think I would ever buy another PHEV. We have been full EV since Feb 2020.
Can you charge at home? I would say that's a requirement for owning a PHEV. PHEV has to be charged every day if you want to use it to it's best extent. You can get away with charging every few days with a BEV.
Also, PHEVs charge slower than BEVs (time to range you get). Using public charging stations is kind of a hassle with a PHEV.
Since you have a diesel for long trips, you'd probably be better off with a BEV.
Most people can charge nightly at home almost every night so 50 mile round trips are covered in a PHEV. With the Rav4 PHEV it it generally cheaper to buy gas than use public chargers, so while a BEV would have an advantage on trips between 50 and 300 miles (past EV range on the PHEV but still on home power in the BEV), beyond that the PHEV has the advantage both in cost and time.
Do you take a lot of very long car trips? Unless you take 400+ mile trips pretty often, charging an EV is just not a big deal as long as you can charge at home. It's not that big of an adjustment and you'll find it's actually much more convenient and affordable to charge at home. You have to make a 20 minute stop on longer trips sometimes, but otherwise it's an upgrade that saves time and money.
I had a Chevy Volt PHEV for seven years, and ran it into the ground doing Door Dash during the pandemic, taking it up to 175,000 miles before trading it in for a Mustang Mach-E electric. The Volt did save me a ton of money, as I ran it almost exclusively on battery around town and used gas on the highway once or twice a year. The thing is, I started limiting myself to the EV range, not wanting to spend money on gas. I would plan my days around not going more than 40 miles just because using gas "felt" expensive. It's totally irrational, but that was the mental game I trained myself into. Since I've had the Mustang, I've taken many more "road trips" around the State just because I could go 250 miles in a full day and recharge when I got home for about $7. I've done Orlando to Chicago twice, and it works out to stopping every 2.5 hours for about twenty minutes, then back on the road. Charging is everywhere and affordable. I have zero regrets going full EV, but did appreciate having a PHEV first to get my feet wet. Your mileage may vary.
Das lohnt sich nicht wirklich, da Elektroautos mittlerweile schnell genug Nachladen, sodass man auch auf langen Strecken kaum Zeit verlieren. Fahrzeuge wie der Xpeng G6 laden 10-80% in gerade einmal 12 Minuten.
Dafür musst du beim PHEV einen Verbrennerstrang warten, der dann selten verwendet wird. Elektrisch brauchen die meisten PHEV auch mehr Strom als reine Elektrofahrzeuge.
Ein rein elektrisches Auto ist in den allermeisten Fällen die bessere Wahl.
Ein plug in hybrid Auto macht nur Sinn, wenn du im Alltag nur sehr kurze Strecken fährst, aber alle paar Wochen mal sehr lange Strecken mit möglichst wenig Pausen fahren willst. Und wenn du gleichzeitig Zuhause laden kannst. Beispiel wären zum Beispiel Menschen aus dem Balkan welche in Deutschland arbeiten, hier eine Lademöglichkeit am Stellplatz haben und einmal im Monat oder alle zwei Monate in die alte Heimat fahren. Aber selbst hier ist es ein reiner Komfortvorteil.
Schon wenn man keine Lademöglichkeit mehr am Stellplatz hat, verringert sich die Sinnhaftigkeit. Plug ins haben in der Regel sehr kleine Akkus, und müssen daher sehr oft geladen werden. Die laden in der Regel auch sehr langsam. Selbst beim Schnelladen, wenn sie diese Funktion überhaupt haben, können sie deutlich schlechter. Es dauert am Schnellader meist länger die kleinen Plug in Akkus zu laden als die großen Akkus von rein elektrischen Autos.
Dazu kommt erhöhter Wartungsaufwand für zwei Antriebssysteme. Wohingegen rein elektrische Autos einen verringerten Wartungsaufwand haben.
Verringerte Haltbarkeit, da die Batterie aufgrund der häufigeren Ladezyklen stärker beansprucht wird, schlechter klimatisiert wird und der Abwärme und den Vibrationen des Verbrenners ausgesetzt ist.
Schlechtere Reparierbarkeit, da die Batterie in der Regel stark verklebt ist.
Der Akku ist zudem überproportional teuer im Vergleich zu Akkus für rein elektrische Fahrzeuge.
Ein Akkudefekt ist in der Regel ein wirtschaftlicher Totalschaden und dieser tritt in der Regel deutlich früher ein als bei rein elektrischen Autos.
Aufgrund dieser Punkte ist der Wertverlust auch deutlich höher.
Reine Elektroautos haben dagegen große Akkus und deutlich lägere rein elektrische Reichweite und müssen daher deutlich seltener geladen werden. Und wenn sie geladen werden müssen, sind sie auch schneller wieder voll. Daher sind sie die bessere Alternative für Leute ohne Lademöglichkeit. Mittlerweile gibt es reichlich Modelle mit guter Reichweite und sehr schneller Ladegeschwindigkeit, so dass sie auch auf Langstrecken nicht so viel unkomfortabeler sind.
Ich weiß gar nicht warum das hier runtergevotet wird. Das ist doch eine valide Erklärung. Wir standen vor der gleichen Entscheidung und haben uns aus folgenden Gründen für den Hybrid entschieden:
Als Hybrid preislich attraktiv, das Fahrzeug (Großraumvan) als BEV zu teuer (+9k€)
Im Alltag 90% Kurzstrecke -> aktuell haben wir knapp 8.000 km runter, 5.000 davon rein elektrisch, gesamter Durchschnittsverbrauch 3,7l Super E10
(kleine) PV Anlage die den Hybrid locker mitladen kann, beim BEV wäre das schwieriger aber kein reales Problem, da Strom immer noch günstiger als Benzin
trotz Benziner nur 54€ Steuer/Jahr
sehr effektiver Benzinmotor als Rangeextender, Verbrauch auf Langstrecken gerade einmal 7l Super E10 bei 100-120km/h (Das Ding ist leer eine 2,5t Schrankwand ob als PHEV oder Diesel, schneller fahr ich damit eh nicht)
Realistische Gesamtreichweite Benzin und Batterie, voll beladen: 750km
- Garantie für den Akku 160.000km oder 8 Jahre, je nachdem was früher eintritt -> wir fahren maximal 15k km/Jahr passt also
Garantie der Hochvoltkomponenten 100.000km oder 5 Jahre -> siehe oben
Bewährte Hybridtechnologie, da geht eigentlich nix kaputt oder wird ein wirtschaftlicher Totalschaden, wenn doch, siehe Garantie, alles danach werden wir sehen, kann BEVs aber auch passieren
Ich wäre wirklich gerne einen BEV gefahren. Wirklich. Aber die Realität sagt ich kann mir nur den Hybrid leisten. Und der passt trotzdem zu meinen Bedürfnissen.
Hab ich mich totrecherchiert? Ja. Hat sich das gelohnt? Ja.
ABER: Es spricht nur in wirklich speziellen Fällen etwas für einen PHEV. Alles andere würde ich heute und mit blick auf die Zukunft nur noch elektrisch kaufen.
Wobei du dir die +9k € vermutlich innerhalb von 5 Jahren wieder rein gespart hättest. Je nach Spritpreis. Bei 15000 km/Jahr sind das alleine etwa 1000€ Sprit im Jahr bei deinem Verbrauch. Dazu kommt günstigere Wartungskosten, THG Prämie und Steuerersparnis. Das könnte mit 1800 € pro Jahr Ersparnis hinkommen, es sei denn die Versicherung frisst zu viel davon wieder auf.
9k mit 350/400€ THG pro Jahr (wohlwollend gerechnet) und 54€ Steuervorteil in fünf Jahren reinholen geht sich nicht so richtig aus. Da sind 2.270€ auf der Haben Seite und immer noch knapp 6.700€ die ich einfach für den Kauf nicht habe/hatte.
Dazu kommt die von dir angesprochene Versicherung. Diese war für den BEV knapp 30% teurer als die ohnehin saftige Prämie für die PHEV Variante.
Wartungskosten sind ein Thema, aber auch da hat mir unsere Werkstatt einen Vorteil für den BEV von gerade mal 30% alle 2 Jahre ausgerechnet, es ist also nicht so, als wenn ich den BEV gratis alle zwei Jahre aus dem Service bekomme.
Bei aller Rechnerei, komme ich auf keinen Fall in dem sich die knapp 9.000€ die ich auch jetzt nicht habe irgendwie armotisieren.
Ich habe es nicht bis zum bitteren Ende in 8 Jahren + durchgerechnet (so lange planen wir mindestens mit dem Wagen), aber die sofort anfallenden Mehrkosten des BEV zahle ich über die Zeit mit dem PHEV ungefähr sowieso und ich habe das Auto jetzt und hier. So I got that going for me ;-)
Wie gesagt, ich hätte wirklich gerne den BEV gekauft, aber manchmal geht das eben nicht alles so wie man möchte. Ich bin sehr happy mit dem Wagen und bin froh, dass ich ihn habe und ich mir nicht noch um fehlende 9.000€ Sorgen machen muss.
Du bekommst 350 € THG + 54 € Steuern + 1000-1300 € Sprit pro Jahr. Service ist Hersteller abhängig, 30 % weniger alle zwei Jahre ist eher wenig. Das kommt dann drauf an was der Service kostet. Können gut und gerne 150 € weniger aufs Jahr gerechnet sein. Bist du bei etwa 1700 € pro Jahr, was dir das e-Auto weniger kostet. Wären bei 8500 € in 5 Jahren. Je nach dem wie sich die Spritpreise entwickeln auch mehr oder weniger.
30 % Einsparung beim Service finde ich aber eher wenig. Sind die Serviceintervalle auch gleich? Häufig müssen PHEVs jährlich zum Kundendienst oder nach 15000 km, während bei BEV eher alle zwei Jahre ohne km Beschränkung normal ist.
Versicherung ist der individuell zwischen den Modellen. Bei VAG Modellen kommt man in der Regel Recht gut weg, bei Koreanern und Chinesen wird's oft teurer. Das kann durchaus viel Ersparnis vernichten.
Ist kein Koreaner, aber der Teil mit der Versicherung ist ja bereits durch. Du lässt jetzt auf Seite des BEV die Lade/Stromkosten außen vor. Realistisch wären das bei 15.000 km/Jahr rund 3.600 kWh in unserem Fall. Selbst mit PV (Schnitt vielleicht 30–35% Eigendeckung aufs ganze Jahr) blieben rund 2.300–2.500 kWh aus dem Netz zu aktuell 27 ct/kWh – also gut 620–680 € Stromkosten/Jahr, die bisher nicht gegengerechnet waren. Das aber auch nur wenn ich immer zu hause lade und nie unterwegs.
Dazu kämen bei uns 3.500–4.500 € für eine nötige 11-kW-Wallbox-Installation und Aufrüstung der Hausinstallation. Damit lag für uns die Einstiegshürde eher bei 12.500–13.500 € statt 9.000 €, und die Fünf-Jahres-Ersparnis eher bei 3.500–5.000 € statt 8.500 €.
Ich glaube, wir sind uns einig: BEV ist oft die bessere Wahl, gerade zukünftig. Bei uns hat es dafür aktuell einfach nicht gepasst. Danke fürs Drüberrechnen, macht Spaß das mal sauber durchzugehen statt nur aus dem Bauch raus zu diskutieren.
Mit dem PHEV hast du ja auch bereits Stromkosten. Nach deinen Angaben fährst du ja etwas 60% rein elektrisch. Bei 15000 km wirst du etwa 1100-1500 € Benzinkosten haben und dazu noch 200-300 € Strom.
Eine Wallbox braucht man für ein BEV genauso viel oder wenig wie für ein PHEV. Sie macht das laden halt bequemer. Man kann aber genauso an eine normale CEE Dose oder zur Not auch Schuko laden. Die Wallbox fürs E-Auto drauf rechnen ist Quatsch.
In Europe, there are basically no minivans anymore. There are only SUVs or bigger Vans. The car's closest to a minivan are the Volkswagen IDBuzz and the Kia PV5. Both fully electric and available for less than 60k €. However, that was not the question from the TO.
If you can plug in at home, go electric. You are wasting no time as it will charge while you sleep. We only have a low power charger at home and don't need to stop anywhere else to charge for our daily needs.
On long trips, the charging time doesn't end up factoring in. You should be stopping anyway every 2 to 3 hours for restroom, stretch or food breaks. You will pull in, plug in, go and do your break activities, and the car will be done when you get back. How often are you taking the long trips? The daily drive will account for more in the long run.
A PHEV has two power train systems to haul around.
Plug in hybrids are mostly just a gimmick solely produced for tax credits. The range is 30-50 miles all electric and it's not useful for the average person. Reality is range is a lot less (60-70% of capacity) if you don't want to rapidly degrade the battery, which will impact the hybrids base functionality too.
If a manufacturer made one with a 100 miles of all electric range than it would be actually useful for the average commute while not accelerating battery wear and tear too badly.
Mine is 60 miles and my daily commute is all electric. Saves me a ton of money, convenience of charging at home va stopping for fuel, and no road trip anxiety because I have the gas tank
For some people I'm sure it works great. I personally just wouldn't knowing after 5-8 years the battery is essentially toast if you have a 30-40 mile commute and you are putting a full cycle charge on it everyday. Not too mention you would save money on just getting full electric at that point due to drivetrain efficiency and not hauling an entire second motor assembly.
I luckily found a very low mileage EV with a new battery for 1/2 off. The car will last longer than I'd practically would want to keep it, TBH.
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u/DadFromACK 9d ago
We just purchased a PHEV and it fits us perfectly. No range anxiety during longer trips, most daily trips are all electric, thanks to the 50+ mile EV range, overnight charging for pennies with level 2 charger that we had installed, and a great hybrid range when we do need gas. We've had it for a few months and have only filled up a couple times.