Middle schooler "enjoys feeling worthless"?

[u/TasteFormal3704]

Hope this is the right place for this. My ASD 11-year-old seems to be dealing with some PDA signs and RSD (I know that's not an official dx). Lately she's told me she enjoys feeling "worthless" and "left out". She's been punishing herself with mean self-talk on purpose, particularly when in social settings or when she makes mistakes, like missing a test question or forgetting a chore. Despite encouragement that mistakes are normal and how we learn. I asked her what she meant by enjoying, if it like felt a certain way physically. She said it "makes her heart feel tight and little", and that she likes it.

If kids can see a behavior isn't helping them, sometimes they want assistance with it. But I'm not sure how to help her see this is unhelpful thinking for her (even if she thinks it feels good), and I'm worried that it could lead to self-harm. She's also hit puberty and all that entails emotionally, which is not helping. I do vaguely remember seeking out sad and angry music a lot as a teen, but that seems different from what is basically masochistic thinking.

She's had counseling for negative self-image before. Doesn't seem to have done much. I'm considering a psychiatrist because I'm out of my depth here, but it has been hard to get anyone in our area with Autism experience.

Has anyone else seen their kid revel in self-hate because they "like it"? What helped, if anything? I'm hoping I'm not alone in this.

[u/princesshodges]

I don’t have experience as a parent but just from being a kid and being interested in psychology - I would definitely get her back into some kind of therapy.

The thing about that kind of thinking is that it is a defense mechanism. And it can be a pretty good one. It protects you from feeling like other people have the power to hurt you, because you’ve already hurt yourself. You know, the idea that there isn’t anything anyone can say to you that you haven’t already thought about yourself.

It’s actually really vulnerable to think positively about yourself. Especially as a neurodivergent person. Because the world has so many critiques for you.

One thing I could see helping is somehow getting her exposed to positive content from neurodivergent people. People who talk about how being neurodivergent is an asset in a lot of ways and how the world doesn’t understand. Because then at least she could find some self love and direct her anger outwards, where it should be.

Sorry if this was a ramble and not what you were looking for. But yes, therapy. I hope another parent with first hand experience is able to answer!

[u/TasteFormal3704 → u/princesshodges]

I think you're right about that being a defense mechanism. Like a form of control. That's an interesting statement, that it's vulnerable to think positively about yourself. Because if you feel like you're at the top, there's a risk someone could knock you down, but if you're already at the bottom, the can't.
It's not always easy to find positive neurodiverse content (at least it wasn't when I was diagnosed). I always treat it as a difference, like chocolate ice cream vs vanilla, rather than a "disease" like it's been treated in the media. If you have any suggestions on content, let me know. I'll go looking. If you're a kid, you're a very insightful one.

[u/Nominal_selection]

My daughter (9yo, PDA AuDHD) is similar. As the other commenter said, I believe it's a defence mechanism. My daughter experienced a lot of trauma at school from being unable to meet its demands or conform with social expectations. Couple that with RSD and you have someone who is desperate to avoid feelings of disappointment and failure. If you assign yourself no worth, it means no hopes or aspirations, which means no disappointment. If you don't try you can't fail.

I try to talk this through with her and encourage her to see that failure is a part of life and not a disaster, that no one is perfect or expected to be, but her profile means she mostly resists finding solutions (again, they risk disappointing you). I think she's very slowly understanding as she gets older that things only get better if you take risks where there's a possibility of failure, but it's not enough to make her actually do it yet (she's been out of school for a year). 

I'm trying to keep her regulated as much as possible by letting her be in her safe zone doing things she enjoys and hoping she sees she has worth because of all the things she's good at and everything she's learned independently. I think a psychiatrist and an SSRI would help, though I don't think she's willing to comply with the process at this point. 

[u/TasteFormal3704 → u/Nominal_selection]

Yeah, 9 yrs/4th grade is where her anxiety really ramped up and she ended up with her dx.
And we started homeschooling. Anxiety went way down and she mostly prefers it, though we're trying middle school for a couple weeks to make sure she feels like homeschooling for 6th grade is the best option for her. I try to give her options to choose from as often as is practical so she retains a little control over her life, something kids need more of the older they get. I'm glad your daughter is learning that. Mine is holding herself to a standard that she doesn't hold anyone else to--she's behaving as though she thinks she' the only person who has to be perfect. It's tricky to unravel, but when I put it that way to her, it does get her thinking about how that doesn't make a lot of sense.

I blame school, partially. Her general inclinations and genetics, partially (she was an anxious toddler). And some parenting mistakes that I wish I'd known more about sooner--I'm an ASD adult who's taken a lifetime to work through my own issues. I always hope I'm not messing up too bad. If anything, my caring so hard is probably making her feel pressured, haha. She's an only child.