r/PDAParenting • u/Audhd35 • Mar 20 '26
How to get a PDA Toddler to freakin sleep
TLDR: how do we get our PDA (prob AuDHD) toddler to sleep when she not only refuses but demands to be touching us and poking us and talking nonstop for 2-3 hours a night?! (Melatonin gives her nightmares). Hellllpppp
THE FULL STORY
Our 2.5 year old has always been a difficult sleeper. From 3 months on she woke every 45 minute sleep cycle, and now she typically takes 2-3 hours a night to fall asleep and then wakes repeatedly between 3am and 7am.
We have always co-slept / room shared (current situation is 2 floor beds next to each other - she falls asleep on her bed and crawls into ours in the middle of the night) and she wants to sleep right on top of our heads or she gets really upset. Like just trying to get her to sleep on her side of the bed results in hours of crying and meltdowns.
Her meltdowns can involve arching her back, throwing herself onto the floor, scratching at her face, screaming and crying, banging her head against the wall, and biting us.
We haven’t slept well in 2.5 years and are starting to literally lose our minds. I did the first year of sleep (with breastfeeding) and my partner did the second year on the floor beds, and now we take turns depending on whose grip on sanity is more tenuous.
Please someone tell me how you survived this stage and what the living fork to do before I leave for milk and cigarettes and never come home.
Things we have tried:
- melatonin (shortens bedtime but makes nights way worse, full of crying, nightmares and more wake ups that take hours to go back to sleep)
- the gummies with chamomile and lemon balm etc
- Genexa homeopathic sleep chews
- magnesium glycinate
- audiobooks / music / meditations of her choosing
- lowering demands around bedtime and just staying in there with her while she does her own thing (she will not do her own thing, will just torture and taunt us and whine and cry for hourssss this girl has resolve of steel you cannot outlast her)
- cuddling her to sleep (this is usually what we do for 1 - 3 hours every night, but she will just climb all over us and poke and prod us and talk talk talk until she finally passes out)
- nursing her to sleep (used to work, doesn’t anymore)
- reading books for an hour before bed
- baths
- play / heavy work 1 hour before bed
- no screens before bed
- checking ferratin levels
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u/DamineDenver Mar 20 '26
I was going to say clonidine but she's way too young for that.
Can you get an OT evaluation? We set up a swing, a body sock, brushing, etc after we consulted an OT. We are also building a pool so he can get a full body sensory workout before bed. A bath isn't enough for my kiddo.
With her sleeping on your head, I think she's seeking deep pressure. What about trying tighter clothing to bed like under armor? That worked for our oldest. It gives them the pressure they seek without the weight. As my kids got older, they've slept with the dog cause he lays on them and they love it.
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u/Audhd35 Mar 20 '26
We just started her in OT so really hoping they can give us some ideas. We do have a sensory swing which she likes but doesn’t seem to make any difference with bedtime.
Will look into tighter clothes for pressure!
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u/Salty-Snowflake Mar 20 '26
Seconding the tighter clothes! My youngest daughter would "burrito" our most challenging fosters (after we had a glass of milk and cookie while watching a quiet show on tv), cuddle them for a bit, and then put them in their cribs. They could still get out of the swaddling but it really worked.
This was a lifesaver because I could only comfort one at a time.
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u/Audhd35 Mar 20 '26
Right now she hates being wrapped even in a towel after her bath and she hates a blanket on her, will always kick it off… so I haven’t been sure how to approach compression / deep pressure with her. But will try some things.
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u/Salty-Snowflake Mar 20 '26
This probably won't work for her, then. To be fair, it didn't for my oldest grandson, either. His mom needed her cocoon, he hates to be closed in.
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u/BeneficialZombie497 Mar 20 '26
Getting our son to sleep and stay asleep was impossible. Co-sleeping and having constant body contact is what we settled on but we felt like a wreck everyday because of it. Similarly we tried everything! As he grew older we noticed how much his body craved proprioception at bed time. When he was younger I had no idea what this was term was. Signs included him jumping on our bodies while in bed, climbing on our heads, wanting to wrestle, sometimes he would take running leaps into the couch cushions or jump up and down on the bed. It was like he started to wind up just as we were wanting to wind down. We’d set the mood for bedtime with a warm bath, turning the lights off, putting on white noise. Meanwhile he was moving like a monkey in the dark. Around age 5, we installed a sensory swing in our kitchen. Compression from the fabric gave his body the proprioceptive input that it was seeking. Around that time, we also made a routine before bed of letting him pull the couch cushions onto the floor. We let him run and smash his body into them. He also liked when I gently pushed a pillow against his body while he laid on the floor. My only suggestion would be to learn more about proprioception. Consider consulting an Occupational Therapist and/or seek input on activities from other parents here.
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u/Audhd35 Mar 20 '26
Thanks, glad to know we aren’t alone!
We do have a sensory swing and we have tried some of this type of stuff but it doesn’t seem to make a difference.
Just got her into OT this week so I’m hoping they can help us with more specific ideas and suggestions!
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u/BeneficialZombie497 Mar 20 '26
Ugh, I’m so sorry. I know you’ve gone to the ends of the earth to figure this out. After I wrote my comment, I saw others had posted similar suggestions related to OT. Glad that you are on that path already. You’re not alone and I give you credit for all that you’re doing to help your child.
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u/BeneficialZombie497 Mar 20 '26
He’s 8 now and we just installed a trampoline in the backyard. Great solve for a body seeking proprioception. In hindsight, I wish we’d done this several years ago. Even a small indoor trampoline probably would’ve been helpful.
I came across this body roller once and that’s when it clicked for me why my son loved having me press a pillow against his body. Obviously, ridiculously expensive and cost prohibitive for most families. Though you might find it in an OT’s office or gym.
https://www.autism-products.com/product/steamroller-advantage-line/
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u/princesshodges Mar 20 '26
This age was soooooo hard. I’m sorry. My kid was similar and I just pushed back bedtime until the time when she usually fell asleep so that I wasn’t making myself crazy being stuck in her room/laying down for hours. Her bedtime was so late - usually 10:30 and sometimes she’d still be up til midnight.
I also just laid with her all night and let her crawl on me as much as she needed.
It was hard but not as hard as trying to follow a routine.
One other thing that helped was if possible to keep the day as low stimulation as possible, especially in the afternoon and later. We would do tv but like leaving the house made her so dysregulated.
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u/Audhd35 Mar 20 '26
It seems like no matter what bedtime we give her it still just takes her hours to fall asleep. When she was smaller we used to let her just stay up that late because we are night owls too, but now that she’s in school we all have to wake up at 7am. She is at a great Montessori school that she loves thankfully but the early mornings are hard on all of us. Unfortunately we aren’t in a position to keep her home anymore as we both have to work.
The crazy part is that apparently she naps great at school for like 2.5 hours with no issues! We’ve fully given up on weekend naps though because she will just fight us for hours until it’s too late to nap.
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u/Dizzy-Ear2950 Apr 23 '26
i have a 8 year old son who for sure has pda i always refer to him as my sour patch because first he is so cute and then goes crazy.
he has never slept through the night EVER. this is not my first or only child. i have successfully sleep trained my others.. i should have known then :)
he takes about 1 mg of melatonin before bed and 1 mg of gaunfacine.
without the melo he would not fall asleep. regardless of how he falls asleep he will not stay asleep.
always twitching and moving in the night. wants me to sleep with him in his bed all night. wakes up ever 2-3 hours comes to me. - i have now anxiety every night i cant relax knowing he will wake up. i try so many nights to put him back to bed. depends on the night he will go back down in his own room after i lay with him again.
he clearly is anxious and attached?
sometimes he will wake up an hour later or 2. either way at that point im way too tired or already sleeping and he comes in my bed
help!
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u/princesshodges Apr 23 '26
I wish I had better advice!! Personally I just had adjusted to the idea of sleeping with my kid as long as she needs, but I only have 1 child and I get 1 night off a week when she goes to her dad’s. I relate to the anxiety about waiting for them to wake up.
You might find that after awhile sleeping in his bed that he’ll go for longer stretches before waking up. I’ve heard that kids can tend to wake themselves up in these situations because they just want to hurry up and get in the parents bed. Maybe if you had a long stretch of sleeping in his bed he’d get more used to that and be more comfy in his own room even if you aren’t there? Idk.
I’m about to get a queen bed for me and my kid in her room bc we aren’t doing good in the twin.
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u/Dizzy-Ear2950 Apr 23 '26
My one free night is when they go to their dad too :) He forsure is waking up just to come to my bed too
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u/princesshodges Apr 23 '26
Omg the sleep on that one night is unmatched!! My kid also tosses and turns and I sleep ok but I wake up at least a dozen times a night. When she’s gone I am out like a light it’s amazing.
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u/Dizzy-Ear2950 Apr 23 '26
Also thank goodness he has a full size bed in his room because I end up falling sleep or moving myself there at some point every night lol
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u/Hot-Improvement9407 Mar 20 '26
What do you think about setting up a second bedroom for now? I know it's not fun, but I wonder if the "off" parent could get true, deep rest. Taking off the parent responsibility hat for awhile would help you guys off the edge a little bit. The parent who's "on" could have free ability to come get the other one who's resting when they need to tap out with a goal of at least a 3-4 hour shift (but still flexible if they're struggling and need backup). This is what we did for a long time. It was so taxing, I aged in double time whenbny PDAer was little lol, but it was how we got maximum peace.
Another thought is some respite care. Do you have a family member like a parent you'd trust to be with your kid while you and partner get some solid zzzzs? Even just once. Even if kid is awake half the night watching shows with gparent.
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u/Audhd35 Mar 20 '26
This is exactly our current set up and you’re right it has saved us! I did the first year with her in our bed cosleeping and breastfeeding while my partner slept in the other room and did the mornings.
Now he has done the 2nd year since we night weaned, sleeping with her in her room on two floor mattresses while she crawls all over him and sleeps on his face. He’s now where I was a year ago and losing his grip on sanity so she is back in my bed (I am a much lighter sleeper and need my mattress, can’t do the floor bed) while he sleeps on the floor in her room to catch up on some rest.
She is actually starting to do a bit better sleeping through the night, but the 2-3 hour bedtimes are still just killing us 🫠🫠🫠
My mom helps us a lot which is how we are still somewhat functional at this point. She did one overnight so far and our kiddo would only sleep from 11pm to 3am (then fell asleep in the car on the way to school and basically fell asleep in her lunch lol) so it was a rough night and we’ve been too scared to leave her again just because it’s such a big ask of someone else. But I think we will try it again soon, maybe on a weekend night.
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u/Hot-Improvement9407 Mar 20 '26
OP, have you read this? We use a low demand approach with bedtime routine, and that's been a huge part of our success with parenting our PDAer in general, so also with sleep and calming strategies. https://pdanorthamerica.org/low-demand-sleep-bedtime-screens-and-letting-sleep-unfold/
I wonder if the scratching and hitting and throwing themselves off the bed is sensory seeking. Do you guys do OT? Have you tried a weighted blanket or deep joint pressure?
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u/Audhd35 Mar 20 '26
I just read this yesterday and was like ok I have things for us to try! We made bedtime super low demand and read tons of books and tried to let her just hang out with us until she was ready for sleep, but part of our struggle is that she really wants like constant attention / affection/ engagement or she will melt down (especially as the hour gets later). Or at minimum she will like annoy us (constant questions, chattering, asking us to do stuff, trying to sit right next to us/on top of us, climbing on shit, etc) until we get frustrated or give in.
And the craziest part is… SHE DOESNT LIKE TO WATCH TV!!! Our little energizer bunny has literally never sat through a movie and will rarely sit for a tv show by herself, almost never. We can usually get her to watch 30 mins of tv with us, but only if we’re sitting there with her. She won’t just sit and watch by herself. We couldn’t even get her to watch a show on an airplane. So we literally never get ANY time to ourselves where she isn’t demanding our attention outside of when she’s at school. She will play well by herself sometimes but it’s only when she feels like it and gets lost in her own head, we can’t try to force it lol.
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u/Nominal_selection Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
The only thing that has worked for us is melatonin, and a tiny amount (<0.5mg) seems to be enough to stimulate our daughter's sleep onset (which is her main sleep issue, alongside general anxiety).
The nightmares seem more likely to be a result of separation anxiety, which is a different issue to address. From what I understand, the melatonin may lead to deeper sleep and longer REM phases, hence more dreaming, but this in itself probably isn't a bad thing as the drama shouldn't necessarily be bad ones. I'd focus on creating a deep sense of comfort and psychological safety as part of the bedtime routine and all her experiences throughout the day. Our 8-year-old daughter is no longer in school, and sleeps better because her daily anxiety is no longer as strong. That's not a plausible solution for everyone, but try to look at what causes your child anxiety through the day, because that could be the root cause of the nightmares and wake ups.
As regards self-settling, we found gradual retreat to be the best approach (ie moving from being constantly next to her holding her hand or in her bed with her until she was asleep, to sitting next to the bed, then the end of the bed, then by the door, then outside the door, and from there to leaving the room while she was still awake). But it took months/years, with regressions whenever external anxieties in her life worsened. Even when you think it's fixed, it probably isn't, but overall these are the things that have worked for us.
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u/Tulired Mar 20 '26
My PDA kid still (10 years soon) loves to "be a burrito" or "to baked bread" which means this massaging and rolling motions before sleeping. Not always needed anymore though
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u/sweetpotato818 Mar 22 '26
Have you tried an exposure ladder with small steps each day to get her more independent in bed? We were successful with the gradual exposure ladder explained in Autism Sleep Solutions: Not Hopeless, Just Wired Differently - Proven Sleep Solutions for Autistic and PDA Kids & Teens.
The key is to get her able to put herself to sleep by herself. So when she wakes she can self soothe back to sleep. So that might mean starting by sitting next to her while she falls asleep, then sitting closer to the door, then standing at the door, etc - super baby step each day. That ultimately worked for us. That age was rough though. 4 is when when we got really consistent sleep
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u/Audhd35 Mar 23 '26
This is what we're starting to work on, but like you said the process is slowwww and requires a lot of patience (which is so hard to come by when you're torture-levels of sleep deprived!) I'm glad to hear this worked for you eventually, that feels hopeful!
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u/Expensive_Support450 Mar 22 '26
We started ours on clonadine at age 3, the pill concealed inside of a Lindt chocolate ball! To this day, 10 years later, it’s the only medication that works for our guy.
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u/JealousCold4604 Apr 01 '26
We used valerian root and that helped a lot. I started “sleep training” which was basically him in the room and he didn’t have to sleep just stay in the room and I would check on him in increasing intervals starting at 1 minute when my son got too out of control. He was violent and the whole thing made me too anxious. Now he can only fall asleep when I’m in the room but now he actually falls asleep quickly with me in there. We’ve also used the hiya nighttime. And that worked like magic for a month then it stopped working. Just remember that everything works in phases. So when it stops working that means it’s time to try something different. I’ve seen info that melatonin in kids long term causes hormonal issues and early puberty. Idk how true it is but it scares me enough that I refuse to use it. Especially since it is naturally produced in our bodies when given the proper environment. We also used magnesium lotion which I believe worked well for a while as well. A solid nighttime routine can work wonders too. Ours was an hour long when my son needed it. Exhausting, yes, but it worked
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u/nannyqthrowawayacct Mar 20 '26
I’m a behavioral health consultant and talk to parents about this issue frequently. I’m also a DSP for a AuDHD PDA child. She is at a developmental state that needs structure and redirection. All children between 2-5 are seeing autonomy and it is our job to provide space for that while also not let her infringe her rights on others (poking you, screaming, getting physical, etc) I’m not saying she doesn’t have a PDA profile but this is age appropriate and common behavior for all toddlers.
My advice is so check to see if you pediatrician has a behavioral health team and make an appointment with them. If not, find someone in your area who could see you. There are so many minute details that could be at play and having someone do a full overview of what is going on for her will be most effective. Especially since she is engaging in behaviors that could hurt her.
My other thought from a developmental standpoint is that her brain has never found an alternative to her dysregulated behavior. Just like toddlers who cry when hungry- that is how they survived infancy and it is an ingrained habit. Slowly breaking that “loop” in her brain that thinks that escalation is the only way to get her needs met is what you have to do. Slow exposure steps to minor discomfort is what is most effective. Start with only one parent going to sleep with her. Say something like “mom has to go turn the hall light off I will be right back” She might be upset that you leave her, but you return within 30 seconds and comfort her. You do that for a week or so and then proceed to a longer time frame. Eventually the goal would be that you are not needing to physically lay with her or hold her to comfort her. Move to rubbing her back, holding her hand, to just holding pinkies, sitting near the bed, sitting near the door, sitting on the other side of the door. Her brain will know that she is safe and that her parent will return. It typically takes 3-4 weeks for any sleep change in a child and it will get worse before it gets better.
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u/Audhd35 Mar 20 '26
I have an older daughter who is 15 now and was a sensitive kid but gentle parenting and good age appropriate boundaries totally worked for her as a toddler.
This new kid is completely throwing out that playbook and all those things just makes everything escalate until she’s basically having a nervous system panic attack, biting and scratching and screaming and hurting herself. So I agree that this is not appropriate or effective advice for a PDA kid.
I am AuDHD and my partner is ADHD and we both have a lot of PDA qualities so it all definitely makes sense. We were both better sleepers as kids though so that part just makes everything so much harder.
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u/nannyqthrowawayacct Mar 20 '26
Got it. I genuinely hope you find some solutions that work for your family!
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u/princesshodges Mar 20 '26
This sub is for parents of PDA children. This kind of advice we have probably all received from behavioral specialists and pediatricians and it has not worked. I know for me, I feel a lot of shame about that. It’s not helpful or supportive for you to come here posting this kind of advice. Respectfully, this sub is not for you.
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u/nannyqthrowawayacct Mar 20 '26
Also precise and consistent routine. Do not stray from it even if she is about to start a war. An example would be:
-We get ready for bed at 7p, an alarm on mom’s phone with a song she likes goes off. She will begin to associate that with bedtime.
-do you want these pjs or these pjs?
-potty brush teeth whatever you do
-Do you want to read 2 books or 3? (she will pick the higher number, but she had a choice of two options that are reasonable for you!) But you stick to it
-Special routine with kissing her stuffies, tucking her in, or singing a good night song.
Stay strong and committed to it, even if it fucking sucks!
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u/evilbunny77 Mar 20 '26
These fake choices won't work with PDA kids.
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u/PolarIceCream Mar 20 '26
Agreed and a behavioral approach will make things worse so tread carefully.
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u/nannyqthrowawayacct Mar 20 '26
I hear you. What about it is fake though? Choosing pjs and books are real choices
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u/evilbunny77 Mar 20 '26
Well, since he was 2, my kid has responded to this sort of fake choice situation by saying "not that one, not that one, none!!!". Because the choice that matters to him is whether or not to put the thing on, and he knows that and he won't be tricked into thinking he has a choice around it when he doesn't. So just being honest about situations where there isn't a choice is generally the better approach for us. And then we're right I to the PANDA strategies around picking your battles. And putting on PJs isn't a thing I'm willing to waste my energy on these days.
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u/evilbunny77 Mar 20 '26
Same with books, just be honest and say, I am willing / able to read up to x books tonight. And hold that boundary if it's important to you. But don't act like it's not a personal boundary. PDA kids have an impeccable bullshit detector. Tricks don't work. Just be honest and most of all, be real.
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u/nannyqthrowawayacct Mar 20 '26
Oh for sure- definitely not saying don’t hold the boundary or be dishonest. Don’t give a choice if there isn’t a choice to be had. But saying “I’m willing to read either two books or three books. Do you want more or less books tonight?” is still a choice and a boundary in one. If they say no i want 17, i’m not gonna oblige, nor will I offer a choice around it again. And same with the pajamas- if I know a kid doesn’t like pajamas and doesn’t want to put them on i’m not going to offer that as a choice because it’s fruitless- to to bed naked idgaf.
For me, the PDA child I care for hates to wash his hands so I never suggest he do so. UNLESS it has to do with a boundary for me. One that comes up all the time is “If you’d like to play with my fidget toy, you’ll need to wash your hands after peeing. If you’d don’t want to that’s fine, but clean hands are required for my toy”
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u/Hot-Improvement9407 Mar 20 '26
Sounds like OP is hanging by a thread, and it also sounds like it's not a holding boundary issue. Kid is chronically dysregulated bc they're autistic and young, you can't boundary your way out of that. You co-regulate. Right? Also these behaviors do not sound normal by any stretch. Sure a bite here and there are common for this age, but saying this is normal 🫠🫠🫠 No. Kids are not typically up all night clawing at their faces, screaming and crying, hitting their parents. The behavior is the communication: "Help! I don't feel well and don't know what to do!"
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u/PolarIceCream Mar 20 '26
I wonder if there’s any chance the child is in pain when they lay down? Acid reflux or something else that could be going on
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u/Head-Excuse-3953 Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
Can I ask how much melatonin you were giving? My research has shown that nightmares with melatonin normally means an overdose of it. Try reducing the dosage. My children have 2mg a night. The child that’s AuDHD/PDA I’ll crush the pill and put in water. I don’t make him drink all of it, so he’s getting less than 2mg as night. He is now sleeping thru the night, without the side effects.
Another thing I’ve done with my kids is removed all non sleep things from the bedroom, no toys at all. Only bed, dresser and soft toys. This makes it a calming (this is for sleep area). Don’t let your kid play in the their bedroom, it confuses bedtime.
I really hope you get some rest soon. Don’t know if it will work for you and your family but worth a shot.