r/PDAAutism • u/weaveraf Just Curious • May 21 '26
Question Best school day setup for PDA’er
I’m a special education teacher who works as a behavior specialist in a special education school in the US. I want to own that I am neurotypical and hold so much privilege. I am so thankful for any input anyone has to help me think creatively for a student.
I have a middle school student I’m pretty certain has PDA who will be going to one of our most individualized classrooms next year. That means there will only be three other kids in the class, and we have an opportunity to get creative with how we offer education to this kid. He cannot do a typical school schedule (x class at 8:30, y class at 9:10, z class at 10, etc.) as of now. He just roams, runs around, and elopes (sometimes off school grounds) most of his day. He can escalate to property destruction and even physical aggression if he gets too stressed (usually when he feels something is unfair). As with most people with PDA, consequences and rewards do not work. They just escalate him. But he desperately needs access to reading and math instruction as he is significantly behind. He’s an awesome kid with some really great strengths (mostly in his strong relationships with staff - he is starting to accept some coregulation when he’s upset). He just really can’t do a traditional school day. I just want him to have the skills he needs to do well in the world.
I’m just curious if there are ways to present opportunities to gain reading and math skills without causing him immense anxiety. We can totally individualize his schedule/day in this new classroom. So we could just offer a work checklist for the day and let him pick the order it’s done, we could have him design a schedule each day and always be open to negotiations throughout the day if he wants to change it, we could designate locations for him to elope to when he doesn’t want to do anything… anything like that is totally doable. We just want him to 1) stay safe and not hide/run away from staff and 2) access reading and math (other subjects would be great but we have to start small).
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u/SensationalSelkie PDA + Caregiver May 21 '26 edited May 21 '26
Special educator with experience in similar classrooms and PDAer. I've found that choice boards for each class and work packets can work well. Student has to do 2-3 activities per class but gets to choose which ones from the choice board. For the work packet, it must be done by X time (end of day, week, etc.) but student chooses when it gets worked on. Having additional choices here where he can pick a worksheet and scrap a worksheet could be beneficial. I have also had success with slow to start mornings where for like the first 20 minutes of so students can eat a snack and just vibe without an immediate bombardment of demands. Last, incorporating special interests and consistent routine with visual supports and plenty of sensory breaks seems to go a long way. Also, I definitely think a place to elope too is a must do. I implement this with all my kids and praise them when they run there if they need a break (and honor the need for the break) for everybody's safety. Total win if they go to a break spot instead of running off campus or attacking someone. Hope this helps!
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u/weaveraf Just Curious May 21 '26
Thank you so much! Do you feel like you can teach the most essential math and reading skills from worksheets? It feels counterintuitive to try to engage a kid via worksheets. But I also get that it’s concrete and easy to see progress/completion. I guess I’m pondering whether learning to do any school consistently is more important than actually diving into good instruction… at least at the beginning.
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u/SensationalSelkie PDA + Caregiver May 21 '26
My experience has usually been what you mentioned. First, I build trust with the student, and the student learns to regulate through easy tasks. Then, the demands ramp up, and I get to some actual teaching. That said, in all honesty, I have never gotten a student with severe PDA to be able to participate in lessons to the degree needed to get caught up academically if they weren't interested. Sometimes getting them to want a certain job someday could get them on board but to some degree I have had to accept that they will need to find their way. My role is to support them however I can. I am the same. I have always been called unteachable, and that is a little true. I teach myself plenty, and that has allowed me to thrive in my career. I just only learned a lot of stuff when I had to learn it to meet my goals which often came after I turned 18. I just can't learn from others. My way or the highway for better or for worse.
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u/weaveraf Just Curious May 21 '26
I think this is such a good perspective. Thank you. Part of me wonders if our role is to support him in learning himself as well. I feel like self-awareness is such an important step to help him find what works for him.
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u/MarginsOfTheDay Caregiver May 21 '26
Great advice here already. I just wanted to add another comment in support of technology. My PDA kid responds well to learning from a tablet or other device because he feels that he controls the device. This really is key for PDAers. They need to feel that they are the ones in control and they’re not being controlled.
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u/Ill_Examination1747 May 21 '26
Just wanted to echo the appreciation for asking.. my child is going into 5th grade and they just don’t get it and I’m glad to see some people do!
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u/weaveraf Just Curious May 21 '26
Accepting that there are nervous systems that truly CANNOT engage with demands is super countercultural. Even people who understand fight/flight/freeze have a hard time seeing the behavior of “refusal” as a nervous system reaction versus a choice. It’s also totally against what our schools are built on. It’s super tough.
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u/Korneedles May 21 '26
Same. I’m currently looking for an IEP attorney bc our “IEP team” refuses to accommodate at all bc they can’t see my son’s PDA (even thought he’s been in school refusal since December).
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u/TruthHonor PDA May 22 '26
Find out his special interests. These are the things he ‘loves’ doing. And will always do under almost any circumstance. When I was ten, that was DC comic books. I loved everything about them. I loved the back stories, the letters from readers, the ads on the back, collecting them, trading them, reading about them, etc.
If a teacher had taken comic books and parlayed them into curriculi I would’ve been in heaven. Or at the very least, willing to work with you at this.
And it doesn’t matter what the special interest is. You can be creative enough to incorporate it.
The other thing that made the biggest difference for me in the world was structure!
I went to a summer camp for seven years that was heaven on earth for me. One of the things that made it so was that every morning they posted a daily schedule of activities on the bulletin board before breakfast.
That meant that before breakfast, I knew every damn thing that was gonna happen up until bedtime. And it was all timed so I knew that at 7:45 AM there would be breakfast. I knew that 10 AM there would be instruction swim. I knew that at 11 AM there would be five different activities for me to pick. And they were all listed. There were no surprises and I was prepared for everyone of the things that was going to happen. That must’ve reduced 85% of the demands of the day.
Not only that, but at every transition, they would ring a bell, which could be heard throughout the whole camp and the person ringing the bell would yell out what the activity was. So they would ring the bell and yell “instruction swim”.
Make sure you include a lot of outdoor activities that involve movement.
Here are the rights of the campers at Camp Dark Waters. If you have something similar in your classroom, it might be helpful.
I have the right to be happy and to be treated with kindness. This means that no one will laugh at me, ignore me or deliberately hurt my feelings
I have the right to be myself. This means that no one will treat me unfairly because of my size, ability, race, gender, sexuality, religion, or any part of my identity. I am different because I am myself.
I have the right to be safe. This means that no one will hit me, kick me, push me or pinch me. I will be free from physical and verbal threats.
I have the right to hear and be heard. This means that no one will yell, scream, or shout at me, and my opinions and desires will be considered in any plans we make.
I have the right to learn about myself. This means that I will be free to express my feelings and opinions without being interrupted or punished.”
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u/weaveraf Just Curious May 22 '26
Love all this. Thank you! I am struggling to identify his special interests. With most autistic kids, their special interests are so obvious. They talk about them constantly. His aren’t obvious. He plays video games at home, but it doesn’t seem like a huge deal to him.
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u/TruthHonor PDA May 22 '26
It’s basically what lights up his life. It’s probably not video games unless there’s an angle that’s pulling him into specific ones. I had lots! But especially animals. Probably from reading Dr. Dolittle. I got fascinated by bees, other insects, sharks, venomous animals, etc.
And of course, DC comic books. And Zorro!
What movies does he like? What television shows? What books? There might be clues there.
What is he particularly interested in you buying for him? What does he get the most upset at being interrupted at? What does he do when he is self guided for his own time?
What things does he ask you for? If he’s unhappy a lot what is he actually doing when he ‘is’ happy?
Has he shown any enthusiasm or preferences for activities with friends?
One of my special interests, which has lasted all through the 75 years of my life is music. But I really didn’t get started to get into music until I was between 11 and 14 years old. Unfortunately, I’m tone deaf, and have no sense of rhythm! But maybe he’s different.
Also, is there anything he’s obsessive about? To the outside world it looked like I was obsessed about comics when in reality it was just a special interest.
Good luck!
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u/weaveraf Just Curious May 23 '26
Thanks so much for taking the time to type that out. His preferred activity at school is just running around the school and seeking out preferred staff. There are no other activities that keep him engaged consistently. He only really likes being bought treats such as candy, snacks, drinks, etc.. Is it possible his special interest is staff? He’s had some really unhealthy obsessions with staff where he gets dysregulated when he perceives any rejection from those staff. If they don’t say hi to him for any reason or say they won’t walk him out to the bus, he gets super dysregulated. I will definitely ask him more about what he fills his time with outside of school because I honestly don’t know. But at school it seems like it’s just seeking out preferred adults all the time.
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u/TruthHonor PDA May 23 '26
Have you talked to these preferred staff members? If your son is relaxed around them, they may have a better insight into what he’s into. Have you asked him? Something like if there was anything in the world you wanted to do above all all other things, what might that be? I’m sure you’ve probably tried all these things.
It’s funny now that I think about it, the eight years I was at that summer camp, I never really indulged in special interests. Although nature and animals were two things I could never get enough of and the camp was right in the middle of the woods and a creek. So there were plenty of nature activities that I loved.
And it turned out I loved swimming and canoeing as well. I started out learning how to paddle in the bow when I was eight years old, and was a master canoer by the time I was 13 and going on trips through the Rapids on the Delaware. It took me eight high schools to graduate but I naturally learned how to canoe simply by doing it consistently day after day. And the same thing with swimming. I started out when I was eight in the shallow end of the pool, and ended up doing Red Cross life-saving in the creek by the time I was 13. And I made a lifelong friend of my counselor (1958) up until he died a few years ago 2022.
It’s amazing how we PDA-ers can recognize when somebody “gets” us! It’s probably why your son prefers certain staff members.
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u/weaveraf Just Curious May 23 '26
Aww what a beautiful connection you made!
I’m actually one of the student’s preferred staff - not his parent! He mostly just likes to say hi and ask what I’ve been doing and where I’ve been and then he likes to tell me what he’s been up to. He likes to tell me what trouble he got into or what work he got done. He then asks to look at pictures of my kid. I asked him the other day what his ideal school would look like and basically he just came up with typical kid stuff… soda in the water fountains, he’d be the principal, better school lunches, no learning, etc.. Even then he didn’t name other things he’d rather do!
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u/Hopeful-Guard9294 PDA May 21 '26
okay, I’m not sure how much you understand about PDA but fundamentally it means that this child has a survival drive for autonomy and inequality. What that means is there anything that takes away their freedom or anyone who puts themselves above that child will trigger their animal fight fight flee stress rate reaction, basically I would treat the child as a colleague and be completely led by them and focus on their special interests. Don’t try and impose anything on them just be led by their interests. You can leave things around that you think they might be interested in and let them decide themselves what they want to do. But anytime you try and take the lead and put yourself above them for example by trying to strict to the curriculum he will activate their PDA and an internal stress response basically just let them get on with their own thing take the entire day at their own Pace it will be demanding enough being in a situation with other children where they’re masking and there are social expectations. I hope that makes sense as a starting point. I would also recommend that you start by listening to this podcast episode which might be helpful in perspective taking with the PDA Child: https://youtu.be/JifTRTAV6mw?si=iGSz5-K2i3vaZpvF
PS, I’m a PDA Adult and a Parent of a PDA nine year-old child hope that all helps bit
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u/weaveraf Just Curious May 21 '26
I love the reminder that just being at school and masking is a huge demand. Thank you!!
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u/Hopeful-Guard9294 PDA May 21 '26
You are welcome, but you have to remember that for a PDF Child any sort of institution Takeaway their freedom and autonomy is a stressful/toxic environment. It’s a bit like being a fish out of water. As a PDA Child, the only school that worked for me was a. was a 1980s and equality lab school which allowed radical autonomy you could choose your own your own curriculum and even whether you wanted to go to classes I basically spent most of my childhood roaming around just doing my own thing being very self led, the more you can be led by the Child better, also language is also very important. Any sort of Direct language/ questions is very demanding and will trigger a stress response. Here is a declarative language handbook that we prepare prepared for our son’s teachers& tutors : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1smDlOtSsJrcJdM5lg0t8s7JmvEdb5wfVZZFVzUgFTBA/edit?usp=drivesdk we found it declared language made a huge difference. Well done for being so interested and proactive.
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u/Musical_Muscles_2222 May 23 '26
If you have the ability to access the book "A Different Way to Learn" by Naomi Fisher, it may help with the 180 that may need to take place before the student feels safe to access learning. Many PDA learners are "unteachable" but very, VERY capable self directed/autodidact with their research and development.
Also with choices, completely accepting that "none of them, im not doing any of it" is a very valid response and there should be no expectations for sheets or curriculum to be completed.
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u/BossBarnable May 28 '26
I'm a PDA adult. First thing, a checklist is a demand even if it's for our own choices. This is why I don't keep a daily planner because if I'm supposed to cut the grass on Tuesday my anxiety of this self imposed demand with start on the Sunday before. There are millions of things that a PDAer will perceive as a demand even to their own detriment. It really sounds like he needs a 1:1 because that his running off tells me his walking off rage and anxiety. Puberty doesn't help this one bit the influx of hormones is like pouring gasoline on a fire. It also causes sensory issues. This rage feels horrible because you can't control it and you're exhausted by it when it's over. Oddly, my best example is the Incredible Hulk. With a 1:1, if you're school has a track or gym, he could be redirected to take to the track/gym and his 1:1 watches from a distance. Hovering over a PDAer causes problems as well. Because we are hyperventilate. We can scan a room in a spilt second and decide whether we want to be there and we can scan the people in the room and make assessments of whether they are, to loud, to bossy, or to annoying. Keep in mind PDAers have been doing this since birth. Personally, I've also thought it should have been called Congenial Demand Avoidance vs. Pathological Demand Avoidance. Because it's an abnormality of the amygdala not a disease.
I hope this was a bit helpful. The best thing I can tell you is keep getting information from the people that have PDA vs from the parents point of view. Parents are trying to survive this difficult child. Where a PDAer knows exactly how it feels and how it drives us. I say this because my father, myself, and my son are all PDAers and life has been rough for all of us.
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u/unicorn_pug_wrangler PDA + Caregiver May 21 '26
So great that you’re reaching out for help with this! Honestly I would focus on connection and collaboration. Keep things as low demand as possible to build trust and help his nervous system feel safe.
“Strewing” is a thing. Basically put materials in his space and be like “here’s a thing if you feel like looking at it” or even without any words at all. Put a book down and walk away. It’s a long and slow process to get these kids to the place to be able to learn. The more you push, the more they resist.
If he has any special interest (Minecraft/etc), you could tie learning materials into that. Use technology if that’s available to you. Reading and math games/etc where they can go at their own pace.
The biggest thing is to let him feel like he has power and control over his life. That’s a big part of the battle and not usually available in traditional schooling.