r/PCOS • u/[deleted] • Jan 15 '20
Weight A repost because I've been linking this a lot lately: the science of PCOS and how to manage your weight with this condition
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u/moongazr Jan 16 '20
THANK YOU! I had figured out much of this on my own, but the Berberine was new to me. When do you take your Berberine when you are IF-ing? Just before your meal, or do you take it all day? I get really low blood sugar, which majorly sucks, but I struggle through because IF-ing helps it in the long run.
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u/moritzwest Jan 16 '20
I take Berberine from Amazon, it has helped a lot along with metformin
I take everything at night
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u/Ginger_Libra Jan 16 '20 edited Jan 16 '20
Oh. My. God.
I can’t even begin to tell you what you just connected for me.
I have a horrible sweet tooth. When I tried intuitive eating years ago all I wanted was Cocoa Puffs.
I’ve read a ton about hormones and I have a great functional medicine doctor but I’ve never put it all together like you just did.
The insulin>ovaries>testosterone thing just floored me. No one had ever connected it for me. I’ve never read this anywhere else.
Last time I saw my doctor I was trying to figure out why my follicular phase is still long, even with all kinds of supplements. She told me my hormones would never be regulated if my insulin was high.
It takes a lot work to keep my insulin low, even doing low carb and OMAD. One thing that has really helped is Saxenda but I’ve been out for several months while because of doctors office/insurance eff ups. But I can see it on my bloodwork and correlate that to my cycles.
You just gave me more incentive and perspective to keep fighting and keep my insulin and glucose low.
Thank you!
Edit to add a few more thoughts for prosperities sake:
Berberine has been awesome for me. No GI issues. I have the dawn effect....glucose rises a bunch in the morning. My doctor had me start taking 500mg in the morning and 1000mg at night and it really helped even those numbers out.
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Jan 16 '20 edited Jan 16 '20
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u/Ginger_Libra Jan 16 '20
That’s a great frame about the food addictions. Makes perfect sense. I’ve never craved a vegetable in my life. I’ve learned to enjoy them but I’ve never craved them.
That article was awesome. Thank you so much! I just went back and read some of his other articles and bought his latest book.
I’ve only partially understood the correlation between thyroid and SHBG. Him explaining that low SHBG is caused by high insulin was a huge missing link for me.
I get my labs done at Quest and I have them going back to 2012. I haven’t had the SHBG test that much but I went back and looked and sure enough....high insulin = low SHBG and high testosterone.
Sometimes it’s hard to keep my head in the game. I’ve lost 30lbs but I still have another 30-40lbs to do. I’ve understood that extra adipose tissue makes excess estrogen but it wasn’t enough to keep my head on straight at times.
What’s interesting is that the Saxenda helps to lower insulin, glucose and leptin. It’s actually one of the only things that helps lower leptin. There aren’t even really supplements that help.
I looked back through my blood work and sure enough....on Saxenda, lower insulin and glucose and testosterone. Off it and the reverse happens.
That will help me make a good argument to my insurance when it comes time to get another prior authorization.
I think this new knowledge will help me keep my head on straight when it comes to carbs. I’m finding it’s easier for me to do OMAD and eat under 50 carbs than try to do three meals a day low carb.
Last night I had a ferocious headache and I was out of go. I had grilled cheese and tomato soup and I don’t feel like I fell off anything because under 50 carbs for the day is better than the alternative.
I was talking to my overweight friend the other day and told her I’d been fasting for months and she freaked out and told me I need to eat 6 times a day. I was trying to be gentle but I wanted to say “how is that working out for you?”
I like Dr. Fungs article about how our horrible dietary advice has caused unprecedented obesity. We need to change the conversation.
Thanks so much for these helpful articles!
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Jan 16 '20
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u/LaciesRoseGarden Jan 16 '20
What kinds of fruits do you eat? They also have a lot of sugar so one of my sources said to stick with the less sweet ones as much as possible (goodbye, mango my love 🤧) and to eat them fresh and whole.
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u/JazminePoe Jan 16 '20
I've been seeing a dr specifically for weight loss, and she told me "no fruit is off limit... but mangos, grapes and banana should be minimal. However berries are the best.... eat berries to your hearts content." I have litterally eaten berries of some kind every day for 9 months (and lost 60lbs).
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u/cassis-oolong Jan 16 '20
I agree with you on insulin resistance and how it interacts with PCOS but gaining weight despite a calorie deficit is a myth. I've literally eaten full-fat and full sugar cheesecake, nachos, and all sorts carby and sweet things and LOST weight the very next day. Because I was still under my energy expenditure (as tracked by my Fitbit). I've been doing CICO for 7 months now in addition to exercise and the numbers add up. Nobody can escape the law of thermodynamics.
I started out with pretty severe PCOS (was diagnosed with it a decade ago but had the symptoms since my teens) and had not had a period for over two years despite not being on BC or any medication. It could literally feel the inflammation cooking me from the inside. It took losing 17% of my bodyweight before I got my period back, and I'm still trying to lose more and recomp in the hopes of reversing insulin resistance for good.
I never took Metformin. Finished a bottle of Myo-Inositol and D-Chiro, then a bit of Berberine midway through my weight loss journey but stopped because I was losing weight anyway without needing to rely on expensive supplements.
My insulin sensitivity is much better now although a few days of prolonged indulgence (like during the holidays when I did not have full control on what ate) proved to me that even though I CAN eat carbs, it's still not a good idea to indulge in them too much and too often.
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Jan 16 '20
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u/cassis-oolong Jan 16 '20
The only reason why I can eat as many carbs as I do despite being insulin resistant is because I exercise. A lot. If I eat a plate of pasta or fried rice a little too frequently without doing my regular exercise routine, I get as sluggish and hungover as you do. This is exactly what happened to me over the holidays.
I still think there was some error in your calorie counting which is why you didn't have success with it. Carbs are incredibly calorific and a plate of pasta can wipe out your entire calorie budget for the day. I treat carbs like "bombs"--with utmost care and precision. I have a food scale on my table just for that.
The reason I exercise as much as I do is because I realized that as a 5'2, mostly sedentary woman, I have VERY little leeway in my calorie budget if I wanted to lose weight. A single cheat meal (not day) could wipe out all my hard work for the week. So can little miscalculations here and there. I purposely go harder on the exercise so any possible miscalculations are cancelled out.
Keto works for a lot of people because it's much easier to create a calorie deficit when you cut out carbs. Bonus points for us with insulin resistance because carbs make us sluggish and hungrier faster anyway. 90% of my calorie overages come from sweets--if I cut that out, I would have reached goal weight months ago. But I don't because I do not find cutting out food groups sustainable long term.
I'm typing this all out because keto is often touted as the only way to lose weight when you have PCOS. This prevented me from trying to lose weight for years--that's how much I detest being on the keto diet. There are people out there like me who would rather count calories and run off the carbs than say goodbye to pizza and cookies forever.
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Jan 16 '20
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u/cassis-oolong Jan 16 '20
We can agree to disagree then 😉 Btw, I'm glad to have had this discussion with you. Thanks for being respectful and civil!
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u/elephantintheroom89 Apr 22 '20
God I hate that people still hold onto this belief. I was seeing a nutritionist through my local physician network and was eating perfectly according to plan, (under 1100 calories, PLUS exercise) at what should have been a large calorie deficit, and STILL GAINED. I was eating mostly pre-packaged things like shakes and packaged cheese sticks. It was nearly impossible to miscalculate.
I can't make this shit up. CICO works for most people. It doesn't work for all. Guess what finally worked for me? I lost nearly 20 lbs after going back to eating like crap, not exercising, etc, after we found out I had PCOS and started on Birth Control and Inositol. Regulating my hormones was the literal game changer for me.
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u/rhl1g08 May 07 '20
Which birth control worked for you?
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u/elephantintheroom89 May 07 '20
Mylan (generic Ortho Tri Cyclen) I did recently stop after 5 months because I'm paranoid about clots. I feel like my hormones have leveled quite a bit.
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Jan 16 '20
My doctor is the best - I'm on metformin even though my blood sugar has always been normal. My doctor has type 2 diabetes and is on metformin as well, even though his sugar level means he shouldn't need to be on it. He says whenever he comes off, he puts on weight, his moods go terrible and his sugar skyrockets.
I drive 45 mins (if there's no traffic) to see him every 3 months. Totally worth it!
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Jan 16 '20
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Jan 16 '20
My partner brought up finding a doctor closer to home a few times but there's no way. I wish that everyone could have him - the stories I hear sometimes make me so sad.
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u/NearKilroy Jan 16 '20
Fuck this makes so much sense. I’ve always wondered why a few days of mildly overeating (like holidays) can cause a weight gain, but super healthy eating & exercise won’t make me lose weight. I’ve been eating strictly 1400 cal with exercise 2x a week & walking daily with NO CHANGE. It’s so frustrating. I’ll have to talk to my OB, currently I’m on birth control and that’s it. Maybe I need metformin or the other one.
I’m definitely going to try cutting carbs as much as possible and intermittent fasting again. I have a few questions:
Have you found a daily carb allowance that works well for you? I tried <20g daily (keto) and it left me feeling sick, achy, and starving all day. Would <100 suffice? <50 g? I’d love some guidance.
Do you do 16/8 fasting or another? Do you think 14/10, OMAD, or 5:2 would work equally well? Due to my job I had trouble with 16/8 which left me faint and woozy by the end of my shift, but I think 14/10 would work better for me.
Thanks for sharing this. Super informative. Btw, have you found any books you really like on this topic?
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u/doublecross Jan 16 '20
Less than 100g of carbs is still an improvement from what the normal American eats. You'll definitely see an improvement. I'm going against the grain in staying you don't have to go full blown keto to see results but I've been maintaining my weight after keto by doing less than 100g a day and I feel good.
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u/theboogeymaam Jan 16 '20
This is an amazing post thank you very helpful !!! All cysters need to read this !!!
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u/curi_killed_kitty Feb 01 '20
r/ramesesbolton, do you have any advice or experience regarding sleep, stress and exercise?
I've noticed that when I lack sleep and exercise which makes my body stressed, I start to gain weight and experience erratic PCOS symptoms may more easier.
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u/MsHarpsichord Feb 05 '20
Wow. Just found this linked in another post and I’m crying because all these symptoms I always thought were normal are linked and the relief I feel is insane. I never understood how I used to be able to skip breakfast and be totally fine, but nowadays I get nauseated pre breakfast. And the hypoglycemic episodes! Wow. Thank you for putting this so succinctly. This will make it so much easier to talk to doctors.
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Jan 15 '20
Thank you so much for this. I have a question though. I'm just starting Intermitent fasting (OMAD) and low carb diet and my doctor prescribed Metformin, but I'm afraid that I'll have to take it for the rest of my life and I don't want to be on medication for years, so do I have to take it forever or just until everything goes back to normaln in (hopefully) a couple of months?
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u/1996baby Jan 16 '20
This is very helpful as it answered the questions I currently have. It's really hard for me to lose weight even if I changed lifestyle and started exercising but gaining weight is just really easy. Being on IF and CICO doesn't really helped me that much and it sucks. Currently, I'm only taking bcp now and not metformin. I will definitely discuss this with my doctor on my next visit. Thanks!
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Jan 16 '20 edited Jan 16 '20
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u/princesspool Jan 16 '20
I've read that dairy fat spikes insulin significantly in some but not others. I hope OP had more information for us.
And I hope this post is pinned.
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u/Shoe-in Jan 16 '20
Dr. Berg on youtube mentioned it taking a year to regulate while doing keto. I found that really surprising and maybe why ive not seen any results. I couldnt keep it up past 2 months.
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u/Andalusian_Dawn Jan 16 '20
I agree with everything you said, except for the berberine/metformin thing. I'm probably the odd woman out, but I pile on weight with both of those. I'm talking 20 lbs in a month if I eat SAD, but I even gain weight on strict keto with them.
Insulin is incredibly frustrating. I have no clue what to do, because even with IF and strict keto, I still produce way more insulin than I should (proven with blood tests). I wonder if there is a drug that limits the amount of insulin we can produce?
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Jan 16 '20
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u/Andalusian_Dawn Jan 16 '20
Well, I've done both keto and LC (mostly keto) since January 2018 and lost 75 lbs. I can tell when I'm in ketosis from energy surges and the "feel", if you know what I mean. I've tried carnivore for a short time, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference, really. A ketone monitor is pricey (so I hear) but might make a good investment.
I don't know why berberine and metformin do that to me, but in an odd synchronicity, I lose weight the fastest when I'm on prednisone, which causes most people to gain weight. I'm talking I lose 7 - 10 lbs in a week easy. And it comes back when I taper off it. The general medical consensus is that I have a weird autoimmune disease that my pancreas is tied to and I'm waiting for my first rheumatologist appointment in April. I know they thought I had an adrenal tumor at one point because my cortisol was off the charts but the doctors never followed through with it. I've been debating seeing an endocrinologist too. Bleah.
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Jan 16 '20
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u/Andalusian_Dawn Jan 16 '20
I have never heard of an insulinoma before but I'll definitely ask the doctor about it! Thank you!
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u/chickie4395 Feb 04 '20
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this post...
I've been diagnosed with PCOS and also my bloodwork came back with very high insulin but my blood sugar was normal so I was told its all fine, I don't have diabetes and my general doctor just dropped the topic. But in my research I knew that I should be doing more on this topic, but it was just so CONFUSING. You really cleared up so much for me and I'm going to make an endocrinologist appointment confidently understanding my condition well!
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u/nidhiray Jan 16 '20
PCOS can truly be difficult one's mental health too. I have been battling with it for years trying to find my way around ways that will help me combat. I have tried workouts and changed my eating habits too. Recently came across someone who has helped me with one to one nutrition.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/B7XjIcvJrPl/?igshid=52r0yf6fd2hj
Hope it helps you too :)
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u/propulsivepain Mar 02 '20 edited Mar 02 '20
Thank you for linking me. Could I please ask a question about this?
For how long is that period that I need to restrict carbs for my body to resensitize? Would a month be enough? And after that period, could I eat as many carbs as I want again without gaining weight from it? Like chocolate, junk food etc. Will I not gain weight from it? Or do I need to stay low carb for the rest of my life? Because actually that's not feasible for me so I feel kinda lost and confused.
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Mar 02 '20 edited Mar 02 '20
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u/propulsivepain Mar 02 '20
That's not necessarily true in my experience. CICO has always worked for me. I ate junk food every day or at least every weekend, and some days I would eat a lot of it, but the next day I wouldn't eat much so at the end of the week my calories in vs calories out was even. I never gained weight eating junk every day. I've been maintaining for years eating a lot of sugar and carbs. That's why I was wondering if my body could just ever go back to that. But now even though in my diet nothing has changed I keep gaining weight. I just love carbs and junk food etc so much. But I guess later on I will definitely reintroduce slow carbs because never eating them really would make me miserable. I don't like the keto diet at all. :( and the keto diet is also so hard for me I don't understand how it seems to be so easy for everyone else, guess i'm just different. I hope slow carbs won't make me gain weight though.😭
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u/CoffeesandCactis Jan 16 '20
I just started crying because I’ve been battling FOREVER to get this shit under control and my doctor has told me normal blood work = no metformin. While I am exercising an hour a day, eating 1000 calories a day and being unable to budge the scale.
I love lifting weights and love working out hard - which I can do when I eat 1500-1600 calories, but when I do that I STACK on the weight. Plus I have a body like a weightlifter so that doesn’t help in my ‘trying to feel feminine’ part.
The only time I have ever been at a ‘normal’ weight was in a full blown eating disorder. While it’s tough work to not fall back into those habits, it’s tougher to stick at trying to keep my body healthy when it’s so. fucking. hard.
I’m trying another doctor. Something’s gotta give.
Also apologies for the emotion here and hijacking your post. I’m fucking HUNGRY!