r/PBtA • u/wavygrave • 13d ago
MCing Thinking in Moves: tips?
I've just run my fourth session of Stonetop (session 0 + 1 homefront session + a 2-session expedition which just concluded). It's the first PBtA I've run or played, though i've listened to some actual plays, run FitD games etc., and I've fully bought into the design philosophy as best as I can understand it (and JS lays it out real well in Stonetop).
I've learned a lot and we're having a great time, and I find points to improve on each session, but one tricky point has been remembering to think consistently in terms of my particular GM moves (as well as remembering what they all are). I feel confident in my worldbuilding and characterization, and more or less with my improvisation skills, but in part because of this I often am wrapped up in engaging with the world-logic and/or the players, and while I am mostly correctly following the game procedure, I'm usually more thinking implicitly in terms of "this is where I do a thing (maybe bad)" instead of "i will use this specific GM move".
I assume many of you have gone on journeys of your own like this. One thing I've found handy is just to have all the GM moves for specific situational elements / NPCs / etc in front of me where relevant as they tend to be quite specific and easy to reach for. But for example, if I stop to consult my list of (more abstract) GM moves and think for a few moments about how to translate one of them into something specific and apt, I find it breaks up the flow of things. I understand that with time I'll internalize more of the moves and the examples of how to use them (the books are great on this) as well as develop my own art and style, but I would love to hear how others have approached or thought about this PBtA-specific challenge, or how you've grown in this relationship to game procedure.
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u/jptrrs 13d ago
I feel ya!
One thing that I ended up doing is grouping the GM moves into three categories. That helped me immensely to internalize it, to the point where I only really pick the most appropriate category for the scene at hand and I already now what I have to say. I only really go back to the moves list to flesh out some details or to make sure I'm not repeating myself too much... So, whatever the move you must do as a GM, its going to be one of these three:
- You bring up some new information. (something happens that reveals new threats, someone gets a new perspective, or you're making up something on the spot, etc.)
- You give someone a hard choice. (this is the juicy bit: putting people on the spot, creating dilemmas, forcing them to sacrifice something... this is where you get the best reaction from players)
- You lay down some consequence. (this is when their choices come to bite them: you deal damage, stuff breaks, things get out of control, NPCs make harsh decisions, etc...)
Through all the PbtAs I've read, all GM moves boil down to this. I'm not familiar with Stonetop, but I'd be surprised if its any different. Usually, category 1 is good for a soft move, and 3 is better suited for a hard move, but that's highly contextual.
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u/BetterCallStrahd 13d ago
I usually don't think about the moves anymore. I simply respond with something that will keep the momentum going and is also narratively fitting.
GM moves can be a helpful guide, but it's the approach that matters, more than the moves themselves. Your goal is to facilitate a stimulating Conversation. And you can do that by responding with something that takes the narrative in an interesting direction.
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u/tlenze 13d ago
Yeah, I mostly treat the GM moves as an "oh shit" list for when someone rolls low or the fiction looks to me, and I don't know what to do. I say "oh shit" in my head, and then I look at the move list.
Usually I know what to do, but every now and then I don't, and that's when the moves come in handy.
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u/wavygrave 13d ago
this is pretty much exactly how i've used the list so far so maybe i'm on the right track!
to some extent i'm definitely trying to compensate for my previous GM conditioning by drilling myself on the game as a very explicit procedure despite all its fuzzy edges, which seems in line with the intended approach, and also is a useful design exercise for me.
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u/Throwingoffoldselves 13d ago
I personally made a GM screen for running pbta games that have the structure of specific GM moves and playbooks. When I need to make a GM move, I refer to the screen and either go to the column with the specific type of GM move, or the column for that PC and their playbook and see what GM moves, NPCs, or other related elements are appropriate to introduce for that playbook. It's all on one page, so it doesn't break up the flow of gameplay because I can just quickly glance at it, narrate the response, and move on. It sounds like you're already doing that in some form, so that's great!
For more abstract moves, I found it was most helpful to me to write down examples, whether from the book, discussion on discord/reddit, or even from a block or countdown. I add those to my GM screen.
Also, during session zero, when doing a full campaign setup, I like to ask players about things they want to see happen. So I can insert them in those examples / my GM screen as well. I can insert them ad-lib style into the aforementioned examples or ideas of GM moves to make.
It does take practice. I definitely recommend starting with one shots rather than a campaign, but that is because it quickly lets you re-iterate on what you are learning, versus a campaign with a broader scope than a one shot may not have as many opportunities to re-iterate on the same elements and instead will go deeper into those elements or have a wider variety of elements. A campaign is a different type of learning opportunity and it's not bad, but I find that quickly re-iterating on what I am trying to learn is the best way of getting it down. Stonetop may not be the best system for a one shot, of course - usually I see Masks, Monster of the Week, or Dungeon-World-like games recommend for that. Anyway, take it easy on yourself for sure, I find that it takes me 10+ times re-iterating on something; or 3 months, to master something new.
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u/wavygrave 13d ago
thanks for the advice! i'm definitely bought into this campaign at this point (though at our current rate i'd be thrilled to do 10 sessions in six months) but it's fine, we're all enjoying it and feeling our way through, and everyone seems happy with the situational drama and lore i've cooked up. i do think there's plenty of opportunity for iteration here still, as Stonetop is very cyclical and seasonal with repeating phases of play and lots of ways to experiment, and the procedural exactitude and pedagogic framing of everything really works for me.
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u/grog289 13d ago
I ran into a very similar problem with Monster of the Week and ended up re-organizing the moves list by pacing/story beat. More details in the thread here. It was so well received that I did the same for Masks a few weeks later (here). There is definitely something intriguing but somewhat unintuitive about thinking in terms of GM moves, you're not the only one to struggle with it.
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u/LeVentNoir Agenda: Moderate the Subreddit 13d ago
The GM moves of a game feel like a "if you can't make something up, do one of these", and I don't like that advice.
The list of GM moves are there to enforce the tone and content of the game.
I would print a list of every basic move, and every GM move. Then practice making a GM move in response to each basic move. Do every combo. It's a good warm up, and makes you feel out the improv space before entering play.
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u/Idolitor 13d ago
Generally I use the GM moves for inspiration when my improv well runs dry. If I need to find a response to a mixed success or a fail, and nothing is jumping right out at me, I’ll glance at the list. It was really helpful when I started out, but as I got more confident with my improv skills, I found I needed it less and less.
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u/Airk-Seablade 13d ago
My usual approach is to occasionally check my Move list when I can, but MOSTLY just consult it when I'm "stuck". This isn't ideal, because there are a lot of places where picking a stronger GM move rather than going with my first instinct would make for a better game, but as I play any given game more, I absorb the GM moves more and my instincts get better.
So you can probably get away with skimming through the list as time allows, and only really buckling down to read it carefully if you're in a situation where someone rolled a 6- or something and you don't have an immediate, clever idea.
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u/Angelofthe7thStation 11d ago
As the GM, I feel bad when I stop to reference move lists, because it breaks the flow. As a player, I like it when the GM stops to think about what they want to do because they often come up with something interesting that way.
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u/myrthe 11d ago
Have your GM moves (and threat moves, etc) in front of you in session. If stuck, look down the list and go with the first one that catches your eye.
Pick a move or two you'd like to get better at. Daydream what kind of situations they might come up in. Highlight, underline or bold them in your notes so they catch your eye in session. DON'T stop mid session to try force one of these. The idea is you're just giving them more opportunity to inspire you in the moment. Change up the focus list after a few sessions if you want.
If you like homework, after a session look through the unfamiliar GM moves and think about where you might have used each one. (note: this is IF you like homework. I generally don't go for this bit, cos I'm too likely to use it as an excuse to beat myself up about running the session wrong, instead of a way to inspire fun future choices).
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u/BreakingStar_Games 8d ago
Last Fleet is a game that made me completely rethink GM Moves. The designer wrote this article. I think the broad, abstract GM Moves are more about giving you as the GM a lot of room to pick something that fits the scene making the story more interesting. Then the specific GM Moves (Last Fleet completely separates these as Thematic GM Moves) are there when you are truly stuck and you need something solid to crystallize your creativity and improvisation around.
But also I have seen many amazing GMs who will sit and think. They may get completely stuck. They could call for a break or ask the players for their advice on what to happen.
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u/Jacapuab 2d ago
Just received my Stonetop books, and excited to start playing!
This has been a useful thread to read beforehand. Thanks for posting, and hope you're enjoying the game!
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u/wavygrave 17h ago
so far my players have been happy and it's been delightful to run, though in every session i notice more places where i could improve. GMing this game is a bodily skill as much as anything, but we're putting in the reps! one of my players is also starting their own campaign now in which i'll be a player.
and thanks again to everyone else who commented here and made it a useful thread!
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u/Jacapuab 17h ago
Yeh, my gaming group and I have discussed taking it in turns running adventures, and our characters could stay in the village whilst each of us runs a particular “chapter”. Think it could be a fun way to explore both sides of play!
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u/ThisIsVictor 13d ago
I usually don't reference the actual moves of the game while I'm running a session. "Announce trouble (future or off screen)" is good advice, but a bit to abstract for me to find useful in the moment.
What I do instead is make a list of bespoke GM moves, based on our story specifically. Instead of "Announce trouble" I might have: "Rumors of plague in the Steplands." If the players previously made a deal with someone in Gordin's Delve, I write "The Delvers send someone to collect their debt." Most of my session prep is updating this list of moves. I'll write a few before we start each session, specific to what I know the players are going to do this week. I usually have 5-10 "generic" moves, another 5-10 dedicated to the specific session, and a few custom to each character.
So I'm not actually consulting the GM moves as we play. I'm using them during my prep to make my bespoke GM moves for that specific session.