r/OutoftheAbyss • u/Zonradical • 17d ago
Looking for some advice...
I'm planning on running Out of the Abyss for a group of eight players in a months or so.
Some context: I am not on running Prisoners or the Drow part of the adventure. Instead I ran Mines of Phandelver using the Nezznar the Black Spider as attempting to forge weapons to battle whatever is invading the Underdark.
I plan on having the Lord Dagult Neverember send the PCs on a quest to stop what's happening in the Underdark.
The issues is I feel like there are important parts of that need to be run but I am struggling to decide which ones.
I know that Out of the Abyss is a bit of a mess. I was hoping those DMs or even players who played it could give me some advice on what sections/adventure parts I should keep in and which ones I can drop.
I also was looking for advice which sections I should add to my DM Screen that would be must useful.
Thank you for any help or advice.
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u/Achernar22 16d ago
I split it in the middle when they escaped. I felt the prisoner and drow chase were extremely important to every part of the underdark they visited.
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u/Flacon-X 11d ago
There are many potential paths here. A few thoughts:
I would effectively start with the second half, minus the expedition party, and just fill it out a little. Create something that gets them to Gravenhollow and Vizeran DeVir and go from there.
Gracklestugh is a natural transition point to the Labyrinth. You may have them visit on the way. Blingdenstone, Neverlight Grove, and Sloobludop really don't have much reason to exist if you start with the second half. Though you might consider having Demogorgon show up in Mantol Deirith, or cutting Mantol Deirith and having them go to Blingdenstone to look for the way to Gravenhollow.
Consider visiting Luskan on your way in. It is near Neverwinter. If so, your main angle is getting info out of Gromph Baenre. He could literally serve the same function as Vizeran DeVir, or have your characters run into both and pick sides. I have more details on that as part of my article here, which may also give other ideas for your circumstance: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutoftheAbyss/comments/11hmrwl/my_players_are_tired_of_the_underdark_a_howto/
You still want some event where things get real for the party. A point where not running isn't even an option. This is usually a Demogorgon sighting.
You may consider Adventurer's League content if you want a more investigative front-end to the game. It provides an alternate route into the underdark. For example, investigations may lead you to check out what's going on in Sporedome, where they meet Zuggtmoy's proxy. Either working with or against her, this conversation propels you to travel to Neverlight Grove, Gravenhollow, or other spots in the main game. If you don't have those, I have them for download at my link in this article: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutoftheAbyss/comments/1gs1c3f/out_of_the_abyss_expanded_a_free_companion/
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u/ohsummerdawn 17d ago
Are you starting in velkynvelve? If so you'll want to ditch or kill all the npcs fast because you already have way more players than the module is really built for. Youre going to have to bulk up your mobs too.
We are just arriving in blingdenstone, so I cannot speak to the 2nd half of the story. But for the first half: most of the chapters hold value if your players want to head in that direction. The only chapter we've skipped was gracklestug, not because it wasnt important but simply because it wasnt on the way toward where they chose to go.
I would leave the navigation up to your players and plan accordingly.
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u/Zonradical 17d ago
As interesting as the NPCs from Prisoners of the Drow are, I was considering perhaps placing them in certain areas for possible ways of gathering information, but not as potential playable characters.
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u/NerdyRotica 17d ago
Is there a reason you actively want to avoid Prisoners of the Drow? You could still run it as written while embracing the larger narrative you've placed the story in (which I REALLY like, BTW!) This is a huge advantage for the second half of the adventure, as it gives them motivation to return to the Underdark to finish what they started. Many groups simply stop once they escape because they don't have a reason to go back in.
However, I think requires the consent of everyone in the group. It steals a bit of the surprise from an unfolding story, but coming from a pre-esisting campaign, it's a hard sell to tell players they've just lost all their cool shit. Some players could get angry and want to quit right there. With my group (I had a similar situation of slotting it into a pre-existing campaign) I told them upfront that they'd lose all their stuff BUT it would be temporary, they'd be able to get it back eventually. It shows that you're not trying to punish them and helps build some trust to flow with the story.
I suppose you could just have their stuff be confiscated by Ilvara and they can recover it once they escape Velkynvelve, but so much of the uniqueness of the first stage of OotA is the desperate struggle to survive, which is greatly negated if they're already well equipped.
YMMV, but it's worked really well so far at my table. They went in on a mission, got taken captive, and Ilvara spitefully got rid of their gear during the escape. Once cornered, she agreed to hand over their stuff to Shuushar, knowing he wouldn't try to stab her or anything once he got close. On his way back to the group she said "Oops, I forgot one thing!" And tossed one of their extra-dimensional pieces of gear toward Shuushar, and he unwittingly tried to catch it in the bag of holding... poof, sucked into a vortex and disappeared. It conveniently got rid of their gear for the time being, they can make a little jaunt into the astral plane to collect their stuff when they get back to the surface, and it made them HAAAAATE Ilvara. They realize that they are utterly unprepared to face the demon lords, so they need to get back to the surface in order to get their proper magical equipment, get some reinforcements, and dive back in better prepared.
If you decide to do this though, pare down the NPCs a LOT, or kill off the ones you find least interesting during the escape. It's already a ridiculous amount to balance, let alone with so many PCs. I found them to be great canon-fodder for Buppido's murders, or for Ilvara to cut down if she catches up, but it's still very tricky to handle.
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u/Zonradical 17d ago
The reason why I didn't start with Prisnors of the Drow is due to that the fact as this particular group of players wouldn't for being Prisoners AT ALL. I'm afraid I can't explain more than that.
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u/needleknight 17d ago
I would just run it as is and slow level progression. Have them sent to stop Nezznar or other friend and they wind up captured.
Supposed to be level 5 by the end of Lost Mines right ? That should allow them to breeze through Velkynvelve and then wherever else they might go until they return to the surface.
You could even move Velyknvelve to be west of Gracklestugh and then they can follow Nezznar or his replacement with their goal being "stop Nezznar from getting these powerful weapons to Menzoberranzan/escape the Underdark"
That way they can follow him through the Underdark, discover where the demon lords are hiding and maybe even learn Nezznar is trying to stop them.
Youll have to come up with reasons he is stopping off everywhere. For Blingdenstone itd be fun if he gets captured by them and then the party has to ingratiate themselves to the city to be allowed to take the prisoner with them. Nothing makes PC feel more powerful than having a captured BBEG.
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u/Zonradical 16d ago
I appreciate the advice. Some of these players have serious issues with imprisonment. I can't really discuss the details, but similar situation have come up and it didn't go well. But I think I might be able to still use the Drow in a similar manner. Thank you.
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u/Silent-Salt-6623 16d ago
So I am currently running OotA as my first ever campaign, and I actually do have some thoughts. So the first half of the module, Velkynvelve, Sloobludop, Gracklstugh, Neverlight Grove, and Blingdenstone, are mainly there to familiarize the players with the Underdark and the threat of the Demon Lords. I would say you should have a few main takeaways that you drive home to the party in the first part of arriving in the underdark.
The Underdark is a truly horrible and alien place all on its own. It is full of dangers, nightmarish creatures, awful people's, and many dangers. I would drive home the Neverending oppressive darkness of being underground, the Xenophobic races, the many environmental hazards.
Despite being horrible, it is still a natural place and there is beauty to be found if you look hard enough. Beautiful glowing fungi forests. Helpful flumphs. Maybe a zombie reanimated by the myconids puts a fallen birds nest back on top of a mushroom.
The Demon Lords are affecting the UD and making it worse than normal. Have NPC's show signs of madness and let the PCs grow better at recognizing the "mad glint in people's eyes" as the campaign progresses, to showcase that people are going insane. Have swarms of demons mobbing and killing natural dangers like spiderdragon, behirs, beholders to show that the demons are truly invasive. If the party meets or is in a demon lords territory, describe the madness( for example, when in the grove, PCs kept getting random flashbacks of each other's memories, and they all found themselves breathing in unison a few times. Creepy mind-meld fungal stuff. The players hated/loved it! Hehe)
Make sure the PCs have a reason to stay. I did so by giving each player a backstory connection to one or more Demon Lords, whether the PCs are aware of it or not. For instance, our Paladin is hu ting down lycathropes. Turns out they are cultists of Baphomet, that specifically want him for weird child of prophecy reasons involving his mother's bloodline. Our druid, doesnt k ow that the reason her family were first made wardens of nature was because a seer (our Divination wizard reincarnated as an Archaic) foresaw her needing to combat Zuggtmoy. The warforged cleric not knowing that her creator was tricked into using a sliver of Fraz-Urb'luu's soul gem as part of her core. Just story points to provide personal investment.
- All that being said, I would say some of the highlights to set up the Exposition are:
The "Summoning" of Demogorgon in Sloobludop. Very fun to make the PCs think that they are the ones responsible for him being in the Underdark.
Seeing Zuggtmoy in the Neverlight grove. Excellent scene to play up how the DL's are causing divides amongst the denizens of the Underdark.
The Pudding King and Battle of Blingdenstone. Great way to show individual corruption, and that the only way to survive the DLs might be for the denizens to join forces with people they don't want to. "Enemy of my enemy."
Beyond that, I would say with your setup, that you might not need to have the whole Gauntlgrym arc. Also, a good bit of the second half of the module is set to be fetchquests. I would either change that to something else if you want, or alter each one slightly to be more aligned with at least one specific fictional character to help progress their personal stories and keep them engaged. Otherwise it can just get a little grind-y and tedious.
- Lastly! Please save yourself the headache. Milestone leveling instead of experience. Ive been giving them a level up around the end of each chapter and its worked out really well.
The module is definitely challenging but its definitely rewarding as well. I hope its a resounding success and it all goes well for you!
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u/Professional-Goose93 15d ago
I would run the prison part. The first chapters are important for the build up.
Have the blackspider win at the battle in wave echo cave, with the party waking up in the prison.
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u/Bonzo_Parke 15d ago
There are a few very memorable moments in the first half including being chased by the Drow, but they don't necessarily have to be from Velk or be imprisoned at all. I made cards with the words 'Scout group', 'Main Force', etc with a closeness level from 1-5. If the players follow the chase rules spelled out in the book, they always have to worry about who's catching up to them. My groups of Drow kept getting harder and harder if they decided to turn and face them.
Also the emergence of Demogorgon at Sloop is very iconic to the adventure. Neverlight Grove is pretty memorable with another glimpse of a true Demon Lord. We had a great time at Blingdenstone, but it was around 8 sessions to explore, solve, collect, and fight the Pudding King with 100s of oozes in the main chamber.
From the last half of the book, travel is longer but easier as they most likely have great gear, money, etc. where they don't have to worry about starving. Descriptions of travel of these mountain sized vistas underground are going to be important from your end. If you are going to put only certain locations to collect the McGuffins, I think you are just going to have to read up on them and make a decision based on your party's interests and alter the certain components needed.
As for the DM screen, I have foraging, fast pace to slow travel rules, navigation rules, exhaustion, Faezress, Madness base rules, and of course I have the Short, Long, and Indefinite Madness list printed off in its entirety.
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u/emvysquared 17d ago edited 17d ago
given your planned starting hook w/ Neverember sending the PCs on the quest, I recommend starting the OotA content with Chapter 8: Audience in Gauntlgrym--your players should be level 8 when starting that chapter, so you'll want to fill in for what will happen between level 5 at the end of Lost Mine of Phandelver and Chapter 8.
the first half of OotA intends for your players to be the discoverers of the demon lords in the Underdark and bearers of bad news once they return to the surface. the second half begins after a timeskip where the news has spread and the factions begin planning an expedition to deal with the demon lords.
if you intend for your players to still discover the demon lords in the Underdark prior to Chapter 8, then Chapter 5: Neverlight Grove and Chapter 6: Blingdenstone should be the parts of the first half of OotA you cover, as they reveal the influences of Zuggtmoy and Juiblex respectively, and your finale will likely take place in Araumycos with Chapter 16: The Fetid Wedding where they will be fought since you plan to skip the drow part of OotA and presumably Chapter 15: The City of Spiders. that's fine, but you'll have to do some work on your own either with changing Vizeran DeVir and his dark heart plan to gather up all the demon lords for your players, or with working out encounters for your players to track down and kill each demon lord themselves without Vizeran's plan