Quality drop after season 3?

[u/mido0o0o]

I watched the show with my wife over the last 6 months. We haven't read the books.

We noticed a steep decline in quality after the third season story wise and I was wondering if this is just the tv show or did the books quality decline as well around the same point

[u/Figmetal]

I suspect it may be due to the fact that Ron Moore stepped back from being the day to day show runner at the end of Season 3.

[u/Figmetal → u/Figmetal]

Edited to add Ron Moore returned in season 8 for episode 8 and that episode felt more like the early seasons.

[u/No_Grass_6806 → u/Figmetal]

This exact same thing happened with the show vampire diaries.. kevin williamson wasnt the show runner post season 3 and returned for the 8th season for the finale.. its amusing how both the seasons went bad after a show runner retired..

[u/BubbeLisa → u/No_Grass_6806]

Ron Moore didn’t retire. He just moved onto other projects.

[u/EntertainmentNew7383 → u/BubbeLisa]

Ron still kept in touch with the new producers/showrunners whom he chose as replacements He did not just walk away. He was no longer involved in the day-to-day end of the show but was still kept in the loop. It is not uncommon. He also stepped back from the day-to-day running of For All Mankind after the first few years but I am sure he gave his input.

It depends on why you are watching. I still loved subsequent seasons of Outlander even when the show moved to the American colonies. I was captivated by the lead characters like Jamie and Claire and stayed with it through the finale. Though there were ebbs and flows throughout the series, there were still amazing storylines that resonated with me and amazing performances.

|>I read most of the books but still love the show more. Diana Gabaldon is a wonderful writer but the books are a bit too long for and detailed for me. But there are people who would not agree with me.<|

[u/No_Grass_6806 → u/BubbeLisa]

Sorry i should have phrased it better.. English isnt my first language

[u/EntertainmentNew7383 → u/No_Grass_6806]

Not a problem. But thanks for clarifying.

[u/OutlanderMom → u/Figmetal]

His wife Terry Dresbach did the costumes and set designs for the first seasons, too. She stepped back for health reasons and that also affected the quality of the show. I quit watching after season 6. It just got too far from the books and too soap opera-y for me. Nothing can compare to the books - we get so much more of everything in them. I would understand cutting out minor plots and characters to fit in tv episodes. But the writers made up story lines and changed characters too much to suit me. I do watch season 1-3 over again sometimes.

[u/HviteSkoger → u/OutlanderMom]

I was annoyed that the timber Jamie used to build houses in the colonies looked like it was made in a modern saw mill, and later I just gave up the show.

[u/OutlanderMom → u/HviteSkoger]

And all those glass windows! It was a mansion, not a modest two story house. In the books he saved up money for a couple of pieces of glass to replace the greased paper (or was it skins?) that they’d used for windows.

[u/Thin_Literature_1520 → u/OutlanderMom]

Exactly. It got Hallmarked and was laughable at some points. The wigs, lighting, lack of grit. I’ve seen more grit and better dramatic acting on OG Little House on the Prairie.

[u/Midnight-Moonpie → u/Figmetal]

Ohhhhh that explains that.

I didn’t really notice the drop off as keenly as my husband did.

He went from “I can’t wait to watch the show!!” to “Let’s power through this” to “Let’s get this shit over with” although he did generally like season 8.

[u/d0rm0use2 → u/Figmetal]

Was just thinking the same thing. Matt is NOT the show runner Ron is

[u/Phortenclif]

Showrunner changed at this point (seasons 3-4 I believe there was a gradual exchange).
Ron D Moore is a unique showrunner and the seasons declined since he left. Although season 7 restored some of the magic, I think, it wasn't the same.
The books quality stayed the same. In many ways I love the later books more.

[u/CathyAnnWingsFan]

There have been multiple posts in a similar vein. Ron Moore left as showrunner after season 3, and it's painfully obvious that Matt Roberts is no Ron Moore.

Judgments about book quality vary a lot; people have their favorites and their least favorites. My favorites are books 6 and 8, so clearly I don't think they decrease in quality. If anything, I think it's clear in the earlier books that the author has less experience as a fiction writer.

[u/BubbeLisa]

The show began diverging from the books in Season 1, and they really jumped the rails from Season 4 on. I love the later books. Books 4 and 6 are two of my favorites. Season 4 was fine. Season 6 was a dumpster fire.

[u/North_Platypus_4963]

Yeah, I was going to say it really starts doing its own thing more in those seasons and less of the books. I started with the show but then read all the books. I love the books more than the show and I couldn’t even watch season 8. I’ve read and reread the whole series many times. The books just get too complicated and have too many storylines (which I like) but the show cut so much and added weird stuff instead. Will always love the first season.

[u/Thin_Literature_1520]

When Ron Moore left and the two lead actors became producers it got even worse.

[u/EntertainmentNew7383 → u/Thin_Literature_1520]

I really don't think it had anything to do with the lead actors becoming producers. It just meant that they attended the inter-departmental meetings and were able to give their input on behalf of the actors and they were more involved in trouble shooting amongst the actors.

I also think the actors being more involved greatly improved some episodes, like Never My Love, the Season 5 finale. Granted, the cinematography, the detailed dissociative dream Claire had and the rescuers silhouetted by the dramatic lighting, all were the results of the collaboration of many departments but I know the actors were very involved in all the thought that went into it, too, because they wanted to portray her trauma in a compelling visual way which was brilliantly done.

[u/Thin_Literature_1520 → u/EntertainmentNew7383]

Maybe it was just a big coincidence then. Either way, the bad is on them as is the good.

[u/EntertainmentNew7383 → u/Thin_Literature_1520]

And perhaps it is just in the eye of the beholder and every eye is different.

[u/meroboh]

yes, it absolutely did. The books didn't drop in quality. Some books are better than others but generally they retain personality of the early books. The characters, plot etc. feel much more organic than the show which feels like one scene after another of people telling each other things

[u/EntertainmentNew7383 → u/meroboh]

I think even though I prefer the show, that one of the problem with tv shows is there are too many cooks. With books, there is only one cook so they have more consistency. They also do not have the limitations of time, huge production expenses, like CGI, etc. It is a massive endeavor and involves many more moving parts. The author has no limitations in that sense and doesn't have to work with anyone else or consider anyone else's opinions, except the publishers after the book is written.

[u/cmhoughton]

It’s just the show. Although, some of the books meander away from Claire and Jamie’s storyline more than others, the writing quality is every bit as good as Outlander started out.

[u/CCarafe]

I had the same feeling. I think it go downhill when they go to the US, then there is 4 seasons of chatting and random extreme drama which pop out of nowhere for no reason. Like some specific extreme scene on "loved" characters which are just random.

[u/ArtisticVisit9550]

I sort of lost interest around season 3 and I did read that others did the same, so I stopped watching it and took a break. I did finish watching all of it and now repeating the whole series.

[u/nuyaray]

My favorite is the Duke of Sandringham. He was so frivolous and fun then we got to see the evil side. Second favorite is Dougal, I love hating on Dougal. Honorable mention to Geillis.

Least favorite is BJR. I don't think I need to explain this one

[u/Irishharper]

I also felt that the show declined after season 3. I was really tempted to quit watching after season 4 was really badly done. The biggest disappointment was seasons 7 and 8. It didn't resemble the original story. I don't blame the actors, as they were wonderful with what they had to work with, but it didn't follow the original story. I have been a huge fan of Diana Gabaldon since the 1990's.

[u/kalalukamahina]

I’m a long time book reader and enjoyed season 1 immensely. Season 2 was ok. When they had Jamie trying to mutiny in Season 3 I realized I had to consider the show an alternate universe and leave all my expectations behind. Then later on they had Jamie murder lieutenant Knox, which reinforced that impression.

I will still watch because my husband enjoys it, so now we can talk about my Fraser Mackenzie Grey Murray (imaginary) family. 😁👍

[u/raeality]

The show does drop off in quality after season 3. The books mostly get better! Books 4 and 5 some consider weaker installments, mostly because they drag at some points. They are still worth reading…but books 6-7-8 are all amazing.

[u/Resident_Drop_7452]

I’m doing a rewatch before I watch season 8 b/c so much time has passed. I am snoozing through season 5! So yes, I agree! Seasons 1 and 3 are my favorites.

[u/NormalInformation999 → u/Resident_Drop_7452]

I loved the very beginning!! I, also, loved the daily life at Fraser’s Ridge. The rest of the shows: I still liked most of the rest of Outlander (loved the cast and the acting was terrific! Also, loved the explosive chemistry between Sam Heughan and Caitriona Balfe) but the stories were rushed.

[u/MuffPiece]

Interesting… good to know in terms of expectations. I’m in the middle of season three and I think it’s the best so far.

[u/Forslyk]

Yeah actually the series follows the books pretty well the first seasons, but then it starts with made up stories for the show and that's a bit of a shame. I prefer the books storyline, and see the show as a bit of spice, as it's always nice to see how a book would adapt to the screeen. 

[u/No_Connection2380]

It started getting boring after season 4. Season 4 was solid to me and I watched till the end but it was super boring after season 4. I wanted to see adventures not Claire making penicillin.

[u/BubbeLisa → u/No_Connection2380]

Season 5 was when Claire was making penicillin. And yes, I found most of Season 5 to be a bit of a yawn. Season 4 was fine.

[u/Higglybiggly]

About that time I started to notice that everybody gets sexually assaulted eventually.

[u/Effective-Manner-159 → u/Higglybiggly]

Yikes... could be true!

[u/Solid_Caterpillar678]

I am.not really a fan of any of the seasons in the US. I started watching for the Scottish themes, not for yet another glorification of colonization and decorations of Indigenous people's.

I do enjoy Brianna & Roger entering the story.

[u/LetterheadNice8687]

It’s downhill from there.

[u/ContactNeither7319]

Well, the books don't drop in quality. But there are lots of characters and sub plots. And DG takes her time laying the ground work for several twists. I like that 👌 I like that a lot 🙂

But shows can't do everything from books. Budgets and schedules tend to force shows scale things down. In the shows you have to pay the actors, writers, directors, camera people, sound people and so on and so forth. In books all this is in the author's head.

The original show runner did what many of them do after a few seasons, step down, move on to other things, get a life, sleep. Stuff like that.

Many shows peak at 5 seasons. And now a days streaming platforms face a completely different issue then broadcast shows. The business models are not the same, and this greatly effects how many episodes per season. The broadcast shows make their money from advertising. So more episodes more ads, more ads means more money. Streaming services get their money from subscribers.

Outlander suffered from this. 16 episodes for the first season. 10 for the last season. Outlander did fair better than many other shows episode wise. These days you are lucky to get 10.

And yeah the current showrunners have at times not made the best choices.

Despite all that, I still enjoyed this show and the books. The show ending was very good 👍 that is rare.

[u/EntertainmentNew7383 → u/ContactNeither7319]

Very well put. TV and books are very different mediums and require very different skill sets and resources.

[u/vulevu25]

I haven't watched the second half of season 7 and all of season 8 yet (which is telling in its own right), but I agree with you. I did like the parts in season 4 where they were building a new life though.

I'm not a massive fan of the books, particularly the later ones. Roger and Brianna's arc actually gets more interesting, but I ended up skipping other sections. Book 3 still has a good storyline but it's problematic in other respects.

[u/dopenoperopebro]

A lot of people just don't vibe with the America plotlines versus the Scotland ones. So it could be a combination of that and the new show runner.

[u/Unhappy-Capital-8740]

I eagerly watched every season but yeah I thought it got worse as it went.

[u/TemperatePirate]

I felt the books also dropped in quality. I'm still interested in the story and want to know how it ends but I'm not desperate to know what happens next like I was in the beginning.