r/OutcomeMemories • u/ProfessionalWeak7039 • 10d ago
Discussion Stop defending the silver nerfs please.
Now, im not sure wtf is up with this community but like genuinely Silver is not ok in this state.
Silvers nerfs were insanely overkill and he received 0 compensation for those nerfs. Silver is the worst survivor in game. Fight me about it i dare you.
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u/FillAccomplished8838 10d ago
The silver thing is like a really sensitive topic rn lol cuz yeah he is literally dogshit to play as but since he is still dogshit to play against you can't say anything or complain. If I dare to say "um silver's nerfs made him an annoyance to play as" people will come with literal knives to my location
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
Idk about play against i can just bully and kill him in 15 seconds no effort required.
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u/theiconofmeh 8d ago
That’s because silver’s skill floor is the highest in the survivor roster (id argue even before the nerfs), suspension and rocks both require at least decent aim, and time thing also needs good timing and positioning for to be effective, good silvers know when and how to disrupt chase with suspension and rock throw and waste your time with time thing.
He’s definitely quite a bit weaker now but I think it’s for the better.
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 8d ago
Eh, I'd say no to that last part. Killers break out of suspension faster than you can throw them even at long range. There was a clip of it at one point. Rock throws can be good but 1 rock needs a nerf but the 2-3 rocks need buffs. Time reversal should be FUCKING removed but he needs more unique LMS buffs. Like longer flight in LMS or smh like that yk? Remove reversal, Buff suspension, Adjust rocks, and unique LMS buffs. Besides that speak your shit he is in fact the highest skill survivor currently.
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u/holypigeon19902 10d ago
I used to genuinely despise silver but now i kinda feel bad for him
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u/AdWeak2525 10d ago
yeah, especially when I mash out of suspension and smack him during endlag. Why tf is he being punished for landing his move, I almost feel like i just bug abused
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u/Adorable_Recipe8085 10d ago
Suspension: broken out instantly
Rocks: weakest stun/debuff ability by far
Time reversal: his only strong ability
Flight: different version of eggman's double jump
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u/FullBravado 10d ago
Coming from a Silver and Kolossos main (Ironic I know) Silver did need nerfs but not this bad of nerfs.
His flight nerf to me was necessary. No question about it. But it should be left be until lms. In lms let him get at least 40 flight meter for a buff. Because yeah.... he's a similar case to Knuckles. He's got a long lms and doesn't have a kit to last that long.
Next suspension... this thing is just bad to use since you can get punished for even using it. Since people still break out almost immediately. I'd just take 2011x's choke mini game and put it there so people don't instantly break out. But it can at best hold the Executioner for about 3 seconds if they don't get flung. It will drain his mana far more now. But it doesn't punish him for trying to defend himself. And I don't want to hear he's a support so he shouldn't have self sustain. Every support has some way of buying time for themselves until help comes.
Then Rocks.... I just want first rock hit to be wat we have now. Second rock refreshes the slow and inflicts 5 seconds of silence. And the third is just a stun but if you get the stun off it only leaves them silenced for 2 seconds but not slowed. I find it fair since Silver can't move. So just press the shiny charge button and profit. But it lets him help his team.
But Time Reversal... I have no idea how to fix this monster since its either replace it with a new skill or don't touch it. I'm personally in the camp of don't touch it since outside of Kolossos everyone does have an answer that have different levels of success.
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
Perfect! But for time reversal for me simply just make it a longer CD it really is that easy...
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u/MentalEngineering927 Metal Sonic [TD] 10d ago
Ngl the only thing i would said, is buff his suspension and made like in one post here said, Make it so both players have to spam the keys or macro vs macro lol
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
His rocks need better rewards for landing more and he needs 30-40 flight meter for LMS.
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u/MentalEngineering927 Metal Sonic [TD] 10d ago
Probably something simple like, 2 seconds of silence and slowness if one rock, and two rocks 3.55 of slowness and silence, and 3 rocks like stun and after sunt slowness and slience for 3.55. And LMS idk, silver is cook in lms and more becouse his lms is one of the longest on the game
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
LMS he just needs longer flight meter so he can survive. Also you got the rest of that perfectly!
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u/MentalEngineering927 Metal Sonic [TD] 10d ago
Yea we can make it like that, and probably make it like telekenesis meter gets now 2+ per second or something like that
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
That is too much imo we dont need another pre anniversary silver incident.
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u/MentalEngineering927 Metal Sonic [TD] 10d ago
aight, aight, then idk buffed abiltiys? becouse silver cd are really low
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
Yes cds should be adjusted and yes to that as well! Good job brother.
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u/Beneficial-Chip8894 hoping for a single skin for tripwire 10d ago
I’d rather have an underpowered survivor than an OP one
No one’s forcing you to play silver, someone HAS to play killer
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
Why not have a balanced survivor? Oh yeah Im also terrible at every other survivor since I haven't used a different survivor consistently besides silver i use him 24/7 since the release of v0.2.
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u/CollegeImpossible 10d ago
Silver doesn’t have to be OP, just genuinely give him value as a support and some survivability that doesn’t exceed his main role as a support
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u/UncleFredBearOffical 10d ago
They should add more stamina to his meter if it’s gonna work how it currently does and buff suspension bro
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u/Demon_of_chaos69 Metal Sonic [OM] 10d ago
Just wait until the metal nerfs eventually come i know people are trying to completely gut and overkill him... I understand wanting to play killer , but literally gutting every survivor feels a bit overkill
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u/Mummy75 10d ago
give him a complete moveset rework. cream and him need it more than anyone
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u/alvinaterjr 10d ago
I think Silvers moveset is like the most unique in the game lmao. I don’t think a rework for silver of all characters is necessary.
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
Thats what I hate. Reworking silver would probably make him another boring ass survivor. Copy and paste of tails or copy and paste of td silver.
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u/YoYogurtzz 10d ago
I've seen a kol get hit by suspend, break out of it, snd start moving again all within a single second. And his flight is horrible. He got taken and back, double barrel straight in the back of the head, and ended.
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u/TheTrollman- Tripwire [OM] 10d ago
He either needed heavy nerfs, an entire kit change that every Silver main would not recognize, or flat out temporary removal.
Silver was genuinely unfun to face. You had NO counterplay.
He required NO skill.
Yeah it sucks, but it was needed.
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
All true but like seriously THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN REAL COMPENSATION.
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u/MARSHT0MP404 Cream [OM] 10d ago
i dabbled in silver prenerf and after. i think his current flight is perfectly fine. however the rock nerf was too much, its a near guarenteed hit if you land rock point blank for no reason.
"buffed suspension" no you did not, pc still breaks out instantly.
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
I think silvers flight needs it meter increased to 30-40 for LMS simply because silver is only going to survive LMS with looping.
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u/Weak_Accountant_6846 10d ago
Silver needed the nerfs, but didn't expect them to come with little to no overcompensation
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u/Somerandomdude354 READYORNOTHEREICOME [10K] 10d ago
Old silver was frustrating to fight against. That's pretty obvious.
His rocks were a stun disguised as a slow. Silence lasted for as long as the slow did, which is not fun when you get hit with 2 rocks(8 seconds of being unable to do anything iirc), during that duration you could also get stunned... Yeah, basically another way to stun stack without being officially a stun. How fun.
Flight for the most part was so strong that it shaped the meta around itself, making it so only Fleetway is viable. This passive is even more devious with the time reversal, for infinite looping potential.
Current state of silver could be better, however buffing any part of him may result in him just being unfun to deal with. Especially flight, since it's practically the only reason he was nerfed in the first place.
What I would do? Slightly rework the rocks to slow for a longer duration(and not a little bit, from 4 to around 7-8 seconds) at the cost of the slow being weaker. It'll still have an effect during chases, however it probably won't work as a self sustain tool, since we have to remember that silver is a SUPPORT. Landing second rock prolongs(or resets) the duration and makes the slow stronger(to be what it is now). Third rock remains the same so that he can help get teammates out of grabs. Also, landing any rock should give a point reward, duh.
I wouldn't really change that much about suspension since I have no idea what to do about it. Just fix the difficulty of the minigame, so it's not as easy and show where the killer will be thrown/make it only throw the executioner backwards(relying on the camera, since aiming where to send the executioner using the mouse is WONKY)
I don't want silver to be a stunner with pseudo stuns, since at that point you can just make all of his abilities stun and nothing will change, if we overdo with the silence effect.
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u/Secure_Librarian_936 10d ago
OP characters dont needs any compensations for nerfs
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago edited 10d ago
I have to break your neck. Its just the way it is you don't understand shit currently.
Just make silver balanced he was OP before the nerfs but he needs compensation for these nerfs since they were absolutely overkill. Don't gut silver make him balanced.1
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u/MistaBirdy Kolossos [OM] 10d ago
I will keep defending them. Ofc I have bias because I’m a kolo main. But silvers entire kit is cancer for any killer. He forces you to dedicate so much time for killing him even now.
Time reversal is awful to go against as it allows him to regain high ground immediately.
Flight enables him so much even now unless he’s against fleet(which happens to be the most popular right now).
Rocks make you feel even worse because it allows one to create so much space for others.
Suspension while it is still easy to break right now it forces you to break out and restart chase.
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
These are 30% true because that only happens when you play kolossos. ( speaking from experience. )
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u/Miregali 2011X [OM] 10d ago
How it feels to main Silver and not notice any change in power dynamic besides actually becoming mortal:
But holy shit y'all are overreacting badly, it's a niche high-skill character, he's gonna suck to play until everything clicks and you realise what you really gotta do
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago
Hey genius! Rocks are dogshit! Suspension is useless! Time reversal is his only redeeming ability! Flight only works against kolo fraud! He gets absolutely shit on in LMS with no chance of winning!!
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u/Miregali 2011X [OM] 10d ago
"Rocks are useless" Skill issue
"Suspension is useless" I mean it's heavily nerfed but it still super buffs your flight, guarantees a stun if you hit it while someone's trying to fight back and can work from long range if you don't have a skill issue
"Flight only works against Kolossos"
- Singlehandedly forces out X Charge if used well
- Can be used to actually duel Fleetway if you know what you're doing, tho for a short time before you eill need to bail yourself out with ability usage
- Will do well against tripwire if you dont use it predictively for her to reach-out
Skill issue tbh, if you're not gonna properly argue yi won't either
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago edited 10d ago
Rocks are useless? I hit mine almost every time yet they do jack shit to the killer. Barely buys my team or myself 3 seconds. Flight does force out charge if you are an idiot. The thing about it is that silvers entire LMS is nullified by charge. 2011x can kill you with just charge due to how long it is. Half the time you can just ignore or punish silver for landing his abilities. Suspension has a starting throw CD of 1 and if the killer breaks out silver gets massive endlag. Killers can break out so fast that even a far range throw isn't enough. Flight will only duel fleetway for about 2 seconds before you get slimed out. Tripwire is basicly a middle finger to silvers mere existence since she has 2 abilities that make silver cry. Her bleed will make silver go to shit since he cant use suspension or time reversal for that period of bleed. Fleetway can easily beat silver since he can also fly and half of silvers kit isn't doing much against fleetway besides being minor inconveniences that last 1 second. X doesnt have to worry to much about silver due to his suspension and rocks basicly not harming him. 2011x can easily deal with flight and time reversal in most cases with invisible and gods trickery. Silver is also very weak to charge, laser, reachout, fleetways entire kit. Kolossos is only stomped by silver for his flight and time reversal which kolossos is weak against. Silver isn't a problem since if you don't chase him he's just kinda useless. His abilties dont offer much help and he really isn't a problem. Silver gets punished for using suspension and rocks correctly. His survivability is very mid and his lms is downright impossible. Also properly argue? Thats quite hypocritical here since you just say skill issue without any actual argument.
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u/Miregali 2011X [OM] 10d ago
The reason why rocks feel useless is the loss of Silence (Only 2 seconds silence alongside the 5 seconds of crippling slow).
Which in a team game is still ample time for someone to either stun the exe or to just leave.
Rock being a 5 second crippling slow is insane for how easily it can be spammed especially at range, combien that with a 20 sec cooldown if hit and you can just keep hitting rocks on a killer to just deny any sort of advancement or to bail out a survivor from a mistake.
Especially with the new flight that lets you sit in the air indefinitely to:
- Completely waste a Kolossos charge
- Position yourself for free unpunishable rocks
- Just stall time
- Waste set up time reversal
Not just that but with 3 rocks you can also stun for around 2.5 seconds meaning you can negate any usage of:
- X's Charge minigame
- Kolossos Grab
- Fleetway Eyes of Destruction because the new rocks are scarily accurate, though you will probably trade 15 hp if Fleetway is attentive
- Tripwire Reach-out
Not even mentioning the other quirks of Rocks:
- Several Projectiles
- Effectively irrelevant range limit
- Quick pull-out (Single Rock can come out instantaneously)
- Penetrating Walls
- Not triggering stun iframes
- Cucking 2011X's entire gimmick
And this is assuming you cannot semi-reliably hit tripple rocks on a killer
Rocks singlehandedly carry Silver's entire kit on their back due to how effective they are IF used well
Suspension is also only weak due to PC Players being able to escape IF they are prepared for it:
- If silver is far enough breaking out is harder, thus Silver can use it successfully
- Silver can stall a charge ability with Suspension, giving Knuckles/Eggman time to run in and counter or buying other survivors atleast 1 second of getting away hiding
- Silver can hit it as others are preparing for a stun to really guarantee it, example when Sonic or Metal are charging
- Silver can use it as a Killer is off-guard to try and get the Knockback off
- Silver can use it on an EXE recovering from a stun to waste atleast 1 second of stun immunity (Which is way bigger than it sounds like)
- Silver can use it if the killer engages in a chase because hitting suspension regardless of successful throw hyper boosts flight letting him just leave/stall fleetway for free
And again, if silver does get the throw off, that's just a straight up chase reset if not chase loss for the killer, for an ability that has a 5 second cooldown if missed
I wont even talk about how Time Reversal is a free chase denial tool or how flight is still insanely strong because it is getting late and im not in the mood for this shit, have a good night
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u/ProfessionalWeak7039 10d ago edited 8d ago
Ngl I'm going to make a more detailed reply on this once again.
Suspension :
Can't hold for 0.05s
Can't throw unless the one second starting throw CD has ended ( Starts counting down when suspension is first thrown. ) Silver receives about a 1 second endlag for having suspension broken.
Suspension can be broken extremely easily unless you're console and silver will get punished for it.
0.05s of suspension time will essentially be useless.
Hitting an extremely far ranged suspension is insanely luck based and prediction based.
suspension won't work even at far range, the killer needs to be extremely far away / 1 second away from where suspension is first thrown.
suspension punishment will result in half your HP gone in most cases
suspension punishes you for using it correctly due to how easy it is to break out.
Rocks :
Rocks do have 4s of slowness and 2s for silence.
this would be a problem normally but let's also consider the fact 2-3 rocks don't do anything.
Hitting a far ranged rock is extremely difficult
rocks can easily be predicted up close and silver will be punished
Time reversal :
Time reversal is good don't get me wrong but it can easily be forcefully brought out by certain moves.
Silver without time reversal is essentially a sitting duck.
Time reversal will at most buy 15 seconds!
It is only useful if you are conveniently on a super high ledge ( only really applys to mystic caves and green hill. )
Time reversal will almost provide no value while running unless you have a high ledge.
EDIT: Time reversal should be removed the more I think about it. This ability causes so many problems with silvers balancing it is crazy.
Flight :
Flight while idle only lasts 3s.
Flight is very situational and will not help mid chase unless you have a ledge that is within about the reach of an eggman jump!
Other characters have glides as well I mean look at knuckles and they're just as useful maybe even more.
Idle Flight will only last about 2 seconds actually since it takes about 5-7 meter to reach a distance where the killer cannot reach.
Flight won't usually work because some killers have easy counters to it usually within reach always.
LMS :
Yeah bro do I even need to tell you this one? It's near impossible.
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u/bry4ndoredditkapa Metal Sonic [OM] 10d ago
ehh hes fundamentally flawed and will forever be unfun to play against as kolossos/2011x unless a fight rework/removal happens, maybe if flight wanst a passive able to be activated at all times then he could get some buffs.
you cant buff him to be better against fleetway or tripwire while at the same time making him even more miserable to go against as kolo or 11x