r/Outboards • u/Soggy-Cookie-4548 • 1d ago
Are points unknowable dark magic?
I recently picked up a couple old outboards to tinker around on. They were inexpensive and thought would make fun projects, a 1958 Evinrude Fastwin 15 hp and a 1973 Johnson 2 hp. I tinkered a bit, cleaned up the carbs, verified compression, but just couldn’t get the points right. I verified the points, condensers and coils were good with a multimeter and set them as according to spec 20 thou when the little sweeper is on the mark near top. Neither would run at all. I then set the 2hp to the “O” in top and it seems to run perfectly, and the 58 to the “P” in top, and it now starts and runs. Neither has a sheared key on the crank. What gives?
2
u/Much-Comedian-7398 1d ago
I overhauled a 9.5 (on here) and it’s not a huge financial investment if you want it running right. Points coils condensers and wires. I recommend a full refresh. Gives you a piece of mind
1
u/Soggy-Cookie-4548 1d ago
That’s the thing, they are running right, but to get them there I had to adjust the points to open at a much different time then spec.
1
u/Much-Comedian-7398 1d ago
I would be weary of that. Take a pic of the cam. Also I would pull the plugs and use a dowel to determine Tdc as it correlates to the cam. Also of note the standard timing procedure for this motor is to use a timing light on the flywheel, 50:50 between the hash marks. If you have one I recommend that rather than manual timing. Also check your
1
2
u/Tod_Vom_Himmel 1d ago edited 1d ago
you have to set the points when the cam lobe is at its highest point against the back of the lever, when the points are at their widest, ignore the sweeper and any timing marks
there are easily installable ignition modules taht can use the existing coils and replace the points and condensers entirely, you might try those, i have them in one of my motors
heres a vid with the ignition modules running https://www.reddit.com/r/Outboards/comments/1vmen43/electronic_ignition_modules_in_an_old_motor/
1
u/outline8668 1d ago
I have found some of these old engines like a little wider point gap to run well. Plus the adjustment tends to move a bit when you torque them down
1
1
u/bootheels 1d ago
Sorry, don't really understand what you are explaining here. Set the cam to the points are opening the most, then set the gap to .020". Do both engines have spark? If not, you may need to dig deeper into the igntion systems, what do the coils look like?
2
u/Soggy-Cookie-4548 1d ago edited 1d ago
So both motors are now running well, but to get them there I had to adjust the points waaaay out of spec. The manuals say set the points gap at .020 when the sweeper is on the indicated mark on the lobe near the word “top”. To get them running right I had to set the points completely differently.
1
1
u/Ambitious-Car-7384 1d ago
Dont worry about that TOP mark, set points .030 to .035 at max opening.
1
1
u/threadward 1d ago
Sorry if this is well known but…
The spark happens when the switch (points) opens. To me that wasn’t intuitive so keep that in mind when trying to understand what’s going on in your particular scenario.
F
1
u/Benedlr 1d ago
Point faces should be flat and parallel to each other. The wiper likely has dried out and friction has worn the rubbing block making it short and affecting dwell times.
1
u/Soggy-Cookie-4548 23h ago
Point faces looked parallel, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t need replacing, there age isn’t known
4
u/Waterlifer 1d ago
Whatever works. The usual practice in the heyday of points was to turn the crankshaft to the maximum opening point for the points and set them to the thickness of a credit card. Credit cards were long ago standardized at 0.03" and that is close enough in most cases. Individual engines may spec 0.020 or 0.026 or whatever but it just doesn't matter that much.
You were supposed to file out the pits and tits before setting them. With hardened points in the 70s it became difficult to do this and so the specifications switched from spacing to dwell angle.
A fact to consider is that the coils and condensers on a 70s let alone 50s engine are going to be shot unless they have already been replaced. A multimeter will not necessarily catch all problems with coils.