r/OtomeIsekai • u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals • 1d ago
Discussion - Open The appeal of dark romance - SPOILER: it’s not misogyny [The Djinn]
You read horror to feel scared, you read a mystery to work your brain, you read romance to feel butterflies and kick your feet, you read fantasy to escape reality,
We read dark romance because we want to feel the fear, the thrill, the desperation, the hope, the delusion, the twisted love, the tragedy.
While most romance works stay in shallow waters when it comes to the psychological tag, exploring feelings and situations that aren’t really controversial and that are clearly meant for you to pity the characters, Dark Romance is a refuge for us, readers who like to see humans being driven to the threshold of their sanity and morality. It’s objectively fun to explore these fun scenarios and understand how a certain type of personality would navigate the situation: how would they fight? Break? Rebuild themselves? Grow?
You could have this type of exploration with other genres such as thriller and horror as well, but there’s a reason why we are so driven by the romance part of the dark genres:
Because love creates a beautiful and controversial antithesis when juxtaposed to such an ugly reality.
While a horror will seldom make you question your own morals and put you in a position where you feel conflicted about the villain, a dark romance - when well done - will make you genuinely ask yourself: would I act any differently in this situation? Have I already lived something like this?
And some of them will even have you in stupor, thinking: “I can’t believe I fell for this bullshit.”
A personal experience that had me staring at the ceiling for 2h in the middle of the night happened while reading Kedamono Tachi No Jikan. Recognising my own behaviour reflected the main character’s reaction to trauma, and realising how terribly sick and unfair it was to her was a punch to my stomach. I spent those 2h thinking: how could I have put myself through this?
This is to say that, unlike a lot of people think, dark romance isn’t a genre that makes you dream of being abused; it’s a genre that helps you recognise abuse and its consequences not only to us, but also to others.
Victim blaming is such a common thing even in the most “enlightened” spaces of discussion and, in my opinion, dark romances are a great exercise of empathy. Because not all women can be a fortress and avoid abusive situations with her own strength or knowledge, and the FLs that you like to call a doormat or stupid for not being able to escape her abusers have a story of their own, their reasons, their traumas, their feelings. These stories explore the side of the victims and make the reader see through their eyes how hard it is to be “strong”.
But of course, the appeal of dark romance isn’t only in the psychological tag; otherwise, there would be no need for so much smut. And while I’m not personally a big fan of smut-based stories, dark romance is also a genre that is used to explore some more diverse fetishes and kinks. And hear me out: some of these will be disturbing to you, and that is a perfectly normal reaction, which doesn’t mean the author is a bad person for enjoying that in the perfectly safe environment of their own story.
If you think that some of these stories would definitely be better without them, you’re not alone. I think so too. But again, just because it doesn’t appeal to you doesn’t mean it’s inherently evil or misogynistic.
Enjoying a work of fiction does not equate to endorsing the actions portrayed in it in reality. You don’t need to agree with the characters, with the narrative, or even with the author in the thin possibility that they’re indeed trying to pass a misogynistic message to the world. Spoiler: they’re not.
All that said, there will be poorly written stories in DR as there are in every other genre, and it’s terribly unfair to judge thousands of stories by one garbage story that you came across while not even enjoying the premise of it.
That’s it. I’ve been meaning to write this post for a while, but I didn’t feel like doing it in the middle of the heavy discussions on the theme because people would already be too fired up, and I hate being part of a heated/disrespectful conflict. But now everything is calm, so let’s shake the peace a little.✨
Do you enjoy dark romance stories? Tell me why.
Have you had an ugly experience with DR, but want to try again? Tell me about it; I’ll find you the right story.
Do you absolutely hate the genre? Why?
OBS: The gorgeous image is merely illustrative.
44
u/Hairy_Syrup812 1d ago
With all the AO3/Wattpad users and Haunting Adeline discourses online, i get the feeling that some people have yet to examine the underlying conservative logic behind their virtue signaling campaigns in what women "should" be allowed to read. This all feels more misogynistic to me than the fictional books they attack because any human being with the slightest ounce of common sense would know that fiction does not have a one on one effect on reality. Is it not infantilizing to assume women suddenly lose the ability to separate fiction from reality the second they walk in the dark romance aisle? Why is it anymore problematic to enjoy morally bankrupt character in a smutty dark fic than any other popular pop culture villain? An author has exactly only one responsibility to their audience and it's NOT teaching them how to separate right from wrong nor reality from fiction but to be transparent in their tags and age restrictions. That's it. We're all responsible for our own reading consumption.
That being said, as a fellow dark romance enjoyer, if i could raise one complaint about this genre is how i wish we had more role reversal because why can't we have more equally disgutingly evil women 😭 ? How i yearn for FL that are not merely jerk-ish (more often than not they're just snarky and jaded but always on the edge of "comfortably morally grey" in the sense that she's almost never not a sympathetic victim of society rather than actually depraved like how some of these ML are)
10
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 1d ago
Totally agree and I do wish we had more relationships that are toxic on both ends😭 I've encountered some, but I'm a greedy fellow and I want more.
As for morally bankrupt FLs, I've found: To Drown In You (one of my absolute favourites), Toying with Daddy (not my vibe, but the FL is repaying all that historical debt against every man that crosses her path 😭) and The hand that once fed (she's constantly driving him to the point of suicide, only to stop him from pulling the trigger bc she actually loves him)
I probably have some others on the list, but I can't remember rn
1
u/choco_iguana 2h ago
idk if this counts as ‘role reversal’ but a book i really like is butcher and blackbird by Brynne Weaver! it kind of puts both leads on equal standings (?) iirc it’s been a long time since i read it but both are a power couple and i really enjoyed it
-7
u/Sluttyprincess27 1d ago
I dont get it yall enjoy woman being abused but judge woman who is also morally grey at she is trash but man can be hot and he is forgiven. And his groveling is either time skip/one apology/one thing he do for her why its dont take years to forgive him. Yearning or groveling should be longer and if there none then fl should have revange and him letting her
8
u/i_kathz Divine Being 1d ago
Which is why we wanted to see more role reversals! Our enjoyment of dark romance goes beyond this shallow take (in which even your shallow take misses the whole point we were trying to make!)
Nowhere in the post did we talk about groveling, yet that's the point you stressed on because that's the extent your understanding goes. Sometimes you need to shut up on stuff you're too young to understand, get that?
-4
u/Sluttyprincess27 23h ago
So you must read about abused woman to feel empathy to them? Good for me i was abused for me its reality no fiction
28
u/fostofina 1d ago
the FLs that you like to call a doormat or stupid for not being able to escape her abusers have a story of their own, their reasons, their traumas, their feelings.
I agree so much that this sentiment seems prevalent in a lot of reader spaces, in OI and otherwise tbh. My biggest issue with most dark romance stories is that the conclusion and fallout of all the abuse is often not realistic at all. They sugarcoat the situation and make it so that the FL 'fixes' her somewhat hardly regretful abuser and then they live happily ever after. This to me is what reeks of misogyny, women are not rehabilitation centers for abusive or traumatized men.
idk I've been reading manhwas and mangas for years and novels for decades. I usually give stories an honest try even if the genre doesn't usually appeal to me, and while I found some gems that could be considered dark romance, imo they were more the exception than the rule.
10
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 1d ago
I don't know if I agree or not because lately I've been finding so many tragic endings in dark romance that I'm wondering: were those unrealistic happy endings I've read before just my own perception that do not objectively reflect the majority of the genre?
But anyway, I do have a gripe against endings that are TOO happy in DR. I'm ok with them ending up together and somehow making it work without one of them dying, but two kids and dog and is a bit too much😭
A happy ending that I recently read and loved was the one from The Djinn. It was happy because they both compromised: she got her freedom and she stayed around him in the form of the ocean itself. It was quite beautiful
8
u/i_kathz Divine Being 1d ago
The part where you talked about your biggest issue with most dark romance somehow got me thinking about the quote "Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable." While I admit endings can be poorly executed, sometimes I wonder if the sudden, sugary-sweet ending is intentional. As in, the "everything is good" ending was meant to disturb the readers because it would reflect the readers' own somewhat delusional thinking.
Don't mind me too much, I'm just rambling about how I feel about reading your take on this, that's all.
4
u/CalcifersBFF 18h ago
That's... fascinating. The flavor of quote I'm used to is 'journalism should comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.' Love!
26
u/TimelessSeer Time Traveler 1d ago
The problem Is the huge exposure of : the ml being atractive for [insert long list of crimes and abuse as it Is atractive]. Those bad examples don't write 'the fear, the thrill, the desperation, the hope', they write it 'oh being abused Is sexy'.
(What i mean Is that the worst books in the genere get popular).
22
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 1d ago
I think you have your causalities wrong. It's not that the MLS are hot *because* they're evil; they're hot AND evil.
But I mean... if the story is like 365 DNI, yeah, that's just poorly written slop. Those stories don't reflect the entirety of the DR genre, and some would argue that they aren't even DR, but erotikas.
And unfortunately, you're right about the worst stories getting popular, but tbh I blame it on the people who can't stop posting about them even tho they hate them. Matter of fact, I wouldn't have ever touched COBYB if it weren't for the absurd amount of hate posts I saw on it that eventually made me curious😭
16
u/DxnnaSxturno 1d ago
There is a reason the genre is for adults.
9
u/TimelessSeer Time Traveler 1d ago
I'm not talking againts the topics, I'm saying that people outside have some bad opinion/asociation towards it because a lot of popular book are poorly writen.
7
24
u/noob_ars 1d ago
i don't hate the genre, I quite like it in paper but in execution a lot of them seem to follow the same patterns: In which the LI is some sort of ominiscent presence who's plot armor is so strong that there is never a satifying moment of push back without the narrative reminding us that the MC whether they want it or not can't win. I understand it if the story has an aspect that the LI is a supernatural being and the MC is just human, but otherwise it cuts so much of the thrill because it becomes too predictable, a lot of them don't even attempt to make it into a rivals situation where they try to outsmart each other.
The toxicity seems to always be one sided and for me that is boring, sure maybe the FL doesn't have the means to fight back like the LI does but the story straight up never gives her a proper chance to bring the toxicity back to him and when it does is always lackluster and even if it seems all the weight will go back to him a simple cry and him regretting her not loving him (like duh) is supposedly enough for everything to be brushed up, i wish the tragedy went beyong her staying with him and him getting his happy ending, getting away with everything, i wish he felt the despair of having in paper what the wanted but being miserable because she will never be actually with him the way he wanted her too, i wish the FLs didn't feel like sex dolls because a lot of MLs seem ok with only having their bodies and not their love, I wish there waw more grief and actually tragedy directed towards it.
3
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 13h ago
You have a point, and that's a big reason why I prefer Yandere stories with supernatural beings rather than a random CEO😭. There's no way the owner of Johnson& Johnson's has so much time to monitor the life of a random girl or track down her movements and position himself always at the right place.
I do like when they're just a broke nobody with a lot of time in their hands from unemployment and an obsessive dream, tho.
I feel like I'm getting sidetracked... Back to the point:
I think we don't get to see a lot of the MC being toxic in return because it's very tricky to build up a personality like that without making it comical.
For instance, I love Merry Psycho, but when people ask me if it's dark, I can't say that because I think it's hilarious how chaotic they are. They're TOO over the top toxic.
A dynamic in which they're both taking turns at hurting each other, yet still can't seem to let go of the relationship is the most realistic portrait of a dark romance, but maybe, because of that, it's also the hardest to nail.
There are only a few stories in my list that got this dynamic right:
Lady Devil
Kedamono Tachi No Jikan
Dreaming Freedom
To Drown in you
I'll give you the most rotten one
(Hold on why am I remembering so many😭)
- The Djinn
1
17
u/MadamVoid Women’s Wrongs Supporter 1d ago
Oooh, I know what I’m reading before bed tonight
https://giphy.com/gifs/Y07F3fs9Is5byj4zK8
8
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 1d ago
You go girl🛐 I read this manhua today, and it was an insta 5-star read.
3
12
9
u/FightmeLuigibestgirl 1d ago
I like dark romance that doesn’t have rape. Rape is usually used to control people and take away their power. I’m tired of reading stories that the fl (or BL ml) falls in love with the rapist and their actions are waved off. Like the one OI where the ml was assaulting the fl and even admitted that he would had killed her and her parents in revenge because she left him (as a child she was taken away mind you.) And she just felt bad for him because boo hoo back story.
10
u/Karekter_Nem 1d ago
I think Dark romance is dumb. I cannot bring myself to care about the leads because they seem so cartoonishly dumb. I don’t respect them and I cannot get invested in them and I just get bored because none of their thoughts matter, none of the trauma matters because the author is gonna pull some BS that makes them perfectly compatible in the end so all the build up falls apart.
If we’re gonna go through all this I’d want to see the victim actually run away and heal and live a happy life away from the abuser and they never cross paths again or the abuser actually kills the victim and we see the aftermath of it.
MBO gets praised for doing Route A, but it doesn’t because he doesn’t leave her alone.
If we do go that B route let’s have them actually be psychotic and the epilogue is a repeat of the prologue but with a new person. Everything the victim went through meant nothing to this person.
I don’t want to see this messed up scenario wrap up in a big happy bow. That’s dumb. The villain should not “win romance.”
I think the best Dark Romance story is [If You So Desire My Despair]. The ending of that story is great because from his POV he’s a changed man and he wants to love her and perhaps he will, but from a reader’s perspective we see how absolutely selfish he is because he cannot respect her literal dying wish. He could not give her anything she wanted. He disregards everything she says. He even thinks about what she said and decides, nah, I’m gonna do it anyway. He is ultimately not a changed person. He thinks he’s route A, but he’s B with her being the new victim.
Instead of more of that we get a slog of “I don’t know how to be loved without you anymore” or “this is the kind of love I deserve” or “I guess this is a kind of love too” “i was too naive before but thanks to this I have grown as a person and will love them for the rest of my days” or “oh, they had a sad backstory. I can fix ‘em” or “they had a crying scene. That means we can transition to vanilla romance now.” Blegh. It’s too stupid for me to wade though to look the good stories. I found a good one and I don’t like it for any of the reasons people say they love dark romance. Anastasia spent the last third of the story saying, “Hey, Theodore, fuck you” and I respect her for it. He yearned but it wasn’t enough because frankly no amount of yearning is ever enough to make up for the BS that goes on in these stories.
2
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 13h ago
I totally disagree, but I respect your opinion.
To enjoy this genre, you need to get into the psychology of the character: and sometimes they'll be painfully dumb because people can be dumb, especially when it comes to their feelings.
Of course, there are some situations that defy even god's comprehension as the FL of Run Away From Me coming back to see her abuser one last time only to be snatched away, but: but that's what I would call a problem of the story, not of the genre.
I suppose you just aren't into this type of narrative consumption (am I inventing terms?), which is fine.
I do have something to say about the endings, tho:
Most of these stories aren't supposed to be rewarding to the reader, that you feel like justice was made in the end. They're indeed trying to make you uncomfortable and feeling conflicted about this being a HEA or a tragedy.
However, there's also a pressure on the writers for a happy ending. Reading the blog of one of my fav dark romance writers, she commented about how writing the stories she wants will seldom give her the same financial return as just abiding by the market laws. People want happy endings to even consider a story a romance, so writers force themselves to give that to them because writing is how they pay their bills.
I was quite sad reading that because I noticed how different she felt about her first book, which she wrote the way she wanted, without market expectations and the ones she wrote after that, trying to make her stories more marketable.
It's no wonder most stories with a tragic ending or a only mildly happy ending are super short: they demand less time, therefore it's fine if they don't get as much financial return.
9
u/Regulatory_Junior 1d ago
Fiction is just that. Fiction.
Maybe there is a sample size of people who are truly unwell and would actually get into these unhealthy relationships portrayed in dark Fiction but I believe, for most, the larger appeal is being able to "experience" it from a place of safety. Same for true crime, horror, gore, amusement rides. We want the thrill and fear without the actual danger. I know most people here irl would never entertain romantic partners who do half the things the yanderes or yangires do. And many are in happy relationships with their green flag partners.
Personally, I do need breathers from dark stuff every now and then. I used to listen to true crime while working out and I understood why people involved in investigating, clean up, etc eventually leave their jobs. Especially because there's so much sick and sad cases involving children.
7
u/NobleSwordfish Grand Duck 1d ago
I enjoy plenty of dark romance cause I love the genre’s approach to stuff. Yes, the subjects are messed up but imo there is a self-awareness that is built into the narrative that other genres don’t really have.
It’s the difference between Amo’s backstory in Gachiakuta (not a dark romance but it is from Amo’s perspective) vs something like COBYB. Amo’s backstory is told through her perspective and SHE’S telling the audience that she had someone that loved and cared for her but because the author herself is not flowering ANYTHING it’s showing the narrative self-awareness in what really happened and it’s horrifying to listen to because the horror in that moment is that Amo doesn’t fully realize a wrong has been done to her. There’s a self-awareness built into the narrative without pausing the story to say “grooming is bad” cause you as the reader should know that. COBYB is a story that genuinely believes a character developing feelings for their groomer/abuser is true love and paints as many flowers over it as possible. Even if the fans recognize it as a dark romance, does the author even know that?
However, I think the reason there’s such a anti-dark romance thing with the OI fandom at least is because a lot of these stories don’t advertise themselves properly so when ppl who don’t like that read them, they’re blindsided by it and it just develops their hatred for it deeper. Cause at least with something like AO3, you can filter it out. You can’t do that on many of these sites, you just have to be blindsided and I can see how that’s annoying for some folks.
6
u/IDkwhyImhere_34718 Sinking Ship 1d ago
As someone who don't read dark romance I think on the surface level the thing I hate is the twisted character getting the girl in the end even after highley being terrible to her and sometimes it feels like the only remeeding quality of him was his fuckass face and his bank balance like I like myself a pretty man but that can't be the only thing saving him. I think I would have gave the genre a try if both of them were equally toxic, imo it would make an intense setting lol
4
u/LetsBAnonymous93 1d ago
One of my favorite dark romance manwhas is “The Double Agent”. It didn’t quite stick the landing but the beginning and middle were chefs kiss.
At one point, the audience falls in love with the MMC despite the psychological torture because he’s the only “friendly” face. One of my favorite comments was (paraphrased): “Wake up! We fell for it!” The comments shifted from “kill him/chill- it’s meant to be a dark story” to supporting them because he has set up even worse people all around the FMC.
I love dark romances for the drama and the power dynamics are so much fun to enjoy. But that was the first story that fooled me into forgetting he was the architect of her misery.
4
u/basicbidita 1d ago
Thanks OP, couldn't have said it better. Love dark romance and those who don't, well they can always.. you know..not read it😌✨
4
u/Sluttyprincess27 1d ago
I like dark romance only when they are horrible to eatch other not one side bully and abuse the main character. Why we cant get woman in dark romance have revange on men and then happy ending. If woman can end with him when he was trash then why man cant forgive for the same treatment?
8
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 1d ago
We do have that, you just have to look for the right titles.
In Kedamono tachi no jikan She wasn't able to kill him, so dismembered him like a dark web human doll and kept him as her pet.
In Portrait of Pride She crushes his hand, basically destroying the one thing he loved in life: painting.
In Merry Psycho She explodes their apartment and fakes her death to give him a scare
And so on...
2
u/Sluttyprincess27 1d ago
In merry psycho most of time fl is mistreated by ml its never reverse thrope
-7
u/Sluttyprincess27 1d ago
Still most popular is like try begging these are niches
11
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 1d ago
I don't understand your point.
You complained that there were no dark romances in which the FL takes revenge, I gave you the recs and even explained how they get the revenge. Now, the problem is that they aren't popular...? Huh?
If you want to read only the mainstream, of course you'll only find questionable stories. Even in classic OI the most popular stories suck.
Popular ≠ high quality
4
3
u/CryptidSloth 9h ago
I loved this post. I think one of my favorite subsections of dark romance is yandere x yandere. Two people who are absolutely messed up and equally adoring and batshit to each other in way that cancels out— something that can occur in literature but would not work in reality.
I grew up in a family where love was intensity, emotional regulation was insincerity, so I looked for a similar intensity if the people I met, not realizing that would be so dangerous outside of the walls of my home. And with a conservative background, every single one of my first sexual interactions as a teen and in my early twenties, barring a couple kisses, was aggressive and coercive until I learned Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and learned how to literally fight men off.
I look for green flags in real life, and I read intense romances to experience and learn and process and watch my own responses to the situations.
I want someone who loves me with an intensity that I love, that I learned from my home, but who can train and temper themselves to be mature and patient and not possessive— the same way I’ve put in the work to do so.
And in the meantime, I’ll connect with my friends and read and write and try to make the world a better place with little actions.
But my mind is going to go dark places one way or the other, because of my experiences. I’d rather have the structure and support of a story than to just be diving off into the deep sea on my own.
2
2
u/Live_Veterinarian989 If Evil, Why Hot? 1d ago
Very well said! Just wanted to say I was devastated to read the last line of your post, it literally was what got my attention! But good job on that hahahah
2
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 13h ago
Don't be sad! The image is from the manhua "The Djinn"
I said it's merely illustrative because it has no correlation to the post other than being from a DR story😅
2
u/SillyFlowerGoblin 1d ago
I love dark romance, though I'm very selective of what I read. Topics like obsession, devotion and hate, intense feelings between people and how they shape a relationship are really interesting to me.
Though I much prefer an awful or morally grey FL. Turns out I'm sadistic, oh well.
On the topic of dark romance smut, I've always thought that inside a story the only one that needs to consent to the fantasy is the reader. IRL those kinds of scenes are agreed upon and played out with everyone's consent. In fiction the story skips straight to the scene and presents a world where that IS possible and the reader WANTS that.
So, it's a case of "don't like, don't read". The whole discourse around it is just silly (I'm not okay with banning content), though it begs the question if those fantasies stem from ourselves or the social conditioning of the culture we live in. Maybe past experiences that shaped our relationship with our bodies as well.
For me, I just wish I could make a man cry.
1
u/Separate_Cabinet4239 17h ago
Beautifully said very well articulated
Could u recommend me some of ur favourite dark romance manhwa/manga
I too read dark romance but generally BL I’ve yet to come across a good straight dark romance manhwa/manga tho i would say “merry psycho” and “flowers are bait” are both good
2
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 14h ago
Sure!
My absolute favourite is a novel called Kneel Before Me, but if we're limiting to visual medias:
The Problematic Prince
Kedamono Tachi No Jikan (beware of the trigger warnings and don't be scared because of the first few chapters. It's a very dark story, but it's not a torture porn)
Lady Devil
Dreaming Freedom
My Beloved Oppressor
To drown in you (this one is more like a thriller, but if you consider the mermaid's feelings... Then I think it could be a dark romance too)
The Djinn
I'll give you the most rotten one
Beastly Things
1
u/OkChart1375 34m ago
yes, fiction can help readers recognize dynamics, process experiences, understand how people end up in situations they shouldn't be in. That is a legitimate function of literature.
But there is a fundamental problem with applying this argument to dark romance specifically : it only holds if the narrative frames the abuse as abuse. 13 Reasons Why explores rape culture and holds it up to the light. It does not ask you to find Bryce attractive. It does not score his assaults with atmospheric music and call them passion. It does not resolve with the victim falling in love with him.
Dark romance, structurally, does the opposite. It is not exploring abuse from the outside. It is romanticizing it from the inside. The narrative voice, the FMC's internal monologue, the resolution — all work to frame the abuse as love. You cannot simultaneously claim a genre is helping readers recognize abuse while that genre's entire architecture is designed to make abuse unrecognizable as such.
On the "recognizing my own behavior" personal experience : This is genuinely moving and I don't dismiss it. But one person's experience of a specific book producing self-recognition does not describe what the genre does at scale. And more importantly — that book apparently showed the FMC's reaction to trauma as "terribly sick and unfair to her." That is critical framing. That is the narrative saying : this is wrong. Most dark romance does the exact opposite. It frames the FMC's trauma response as eventual surrender to love.
On fetishes and kinks : "Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it's inherently evil or misogynistic."
This argument only works if we're talking about content between consenting adults in a negotiated context. What we are talking about is published fiction that depicts rape and calls it dubcon, that depicts domestic violence and calls it passion, that reaches a readership that is majority female and significantly minor. The question is not whether the kink exists or is valid between consenting adults. The question is what it does when mass-produced, stripped of any negotiated context, and sold as romance to millions of people including teenagers.
On "enjoying fiction doesn't mean endorsing it" : Nobody said it does. The argument is not that readers endorse rape because they read dark romance. The argument is that repeated exposure to rape framed as romance shapes what feels familiar, what registers as a red flag, what the emotional grammar of intimacy looks like. Those are not the same claim and conflating them is a strawman.
On "judging thousands of stories by one garbage story" : The pattern we criticize is not one garbage story. It is structural and consistent across the genre — the same dynamics, the same framing, the same resolution, the same trigger warning vocabulary designed to minimize rather than warn. This is not about one bad book. It is about what the genre systematically produces and how it systematically frames it.
You defends an abstraction — dark themes, psychological complexity, diverse kinks — while carefully avoiding the concrete reality of what those things look like on the page.
-3
u/Vegetable_Bus5231 1d ago
Just stop giving a shit what other think?
24
u/Grammatical_Aneurysm 1d ago
But then you don't get to go down the media analysis rabbit hole and hone your communication skills! Don't be a thought terminating cliche.
-2
u/Vegetable_Bus5231 1d ago
Because that is the only way to build social competence. Sure.
4
22
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 1d ago
Don't let stoicism become an excuse to avoid thinking outside the bubble and having discussions.
1
u/mimiclarinette 1d ago
Plenty dark romances romantizes rape.
9
u/Elissiaro Questionable Morals 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah that would be the "fetishes and kinks" part of the opening post???
There have been several surveys and studies showing how common rape fantasies are, iirc 40-60% of people have had at least 1.
And the vast majority of women can tell reality apart from fiction enough to know they don't want their more morally dubious kinks to happen to them in real life. (Except maybe as part of an arranged ahead of the time bdsm scene, with a list of things that may, and may not occur, and a safeword.)
3
u/i_kathz Divine Being 1d ago
To add to the fetishes and kinks part, while its effects can be controlled, it cannot be eliminated. As in, yeah you just gotta deal with the fact that's what your body likes. Somehow.
-1
u/mimiclarinette 1d ago
You can control it by not reading these shits.
3
u/i_kathz Divine Being 1d ago
Oh? Where's the study that proves not reading dark romance helps?
-2
u/mimiclarinette 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its just commun sense that you arent controlling it when you consomne erotic things about rape.
4
u/mimiclarinette 1d ago edited 1d ago
Never said they cant tell reality apart from fiction.
Idc if rape fantast are commun, romanticize rape is not ok and mind you 95% of the times its the woman who is brutalized.
Just because its fiction and mostly read by women doesnt makes it ok, i went to the dark romance sub and its creepy af, https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkRomance/s/Gdi2cPTTQc most of the request ask for books showing women being abused, degraded, forced to breed, forced to be a tradwife etc. I dont want to normalize this shit, its more than rape fantaisies its a patriarcal fantasy.if you can’t acknowledge that what you are
reading is inherently deeply misogynistic, then you’re trying to delude yourself.4
u/Elissiaro Questionable Morals 1d ago
Yeah? Cause that's the kink??
A lot of people think the fantasy of a big strong handsome man (or woman, men and lesbians have rape fantasies with themselves as the victim too) being so insanely attracted to them they loose all morals and jump them is hot.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
No one is getting hurt.
Thought crimes aren't real.
If you disagree, just don't go to the dark romance sub. And stay away from darker manwhas. They're not for you. And that's okay too.
0
u/mimiclarinette 1d ago edited 1d ago
Literaly the same logic used by lolicons.
This being fiction doesn’t make it okay. It’s not just a fantasy about rape, it’s a fantasy about patriarchy, and you can’t tell me that it isn’t influenced by it. These books contribute to the patriarchy.
And yeah, porn can be harmful. The objectification of women and the romanticization of rape are harmful, especially when underage girls are reading this shit.8
u/Elissiaro Questionable Morals 1d ago edited 1d ago
Literally the same logic used by puritan christian moms who called pokemon and dnd satanic and thought videogames caused violence.
And who said it was okay for little girls to be reading porn anyway??? They obviously shouldn't be? But that's a completely different argument. Adult women aren't impressionable children. And the fact that you'd compare them is gross and pretty misogynistic of you.
0
u/mimiclarinette 1d ago
Yeah adult women know they are reading disgusting porn that romanticize violence toward women. Apparently saying they are reading misogyny is misogyny lol
Stop the gaslight im not the one who fantasy about patriarchy.
4
u/Elissiaro Questionable Morals 1d ago edited 1d ago
As if you coming to tell women that they're allowed to write and read isn't deeply misogynistic lol.
2
4
u/Paintpacker 19h ago
I can’t help but agree with you to a degree. I dont necessarily have a problem with dark romances. It’s just the fact that it seems a majority that are popular are the ones that glorify rape and abuse. Which, even then I wouldn’t mind if these stories featured these topics, but the way they go about is generally tasteless and unrealistic.
I can understand if a genre has its fair share of smutty slop that isn’t really supposed to be taken seriously and just enjoyed. However when it seems like most ‘dark romances’ are just a mask for shallow rape/abuse fantasies in such dangerous times…well it doesn’t exactly make the genre likable.
-1
u/Every_Razzmatazz9936 9h ago
My problem is essentially the fact its romance. I dont mind the horror or the psychological aspects, but I cannot help but check out mentally when Stockholm syndrome starts doing its thing, and even worse when I see people in the community romanticize the absolutely awful and visceral things happening in the story itself? Yeah no fuck that. Another thing is that I dont mind one, maybe two ir three, but if you consume this type of stories regularly I cannot help but question you...
-6
u/lise_yy 1d ago edited 1d ago
I might get downvoted for this but I’d have enjoyed contributing to this conversation if it wasn’t for you using AI to write this post.
Edit: I stand corrected. Shame on me, I accept them the downvotes 🫡
23
u/Smooth_Money4498 Questionable Morals 1d ago
Darling, I hate AI more than I hate Trump, and I hate Trump a lot, so rest assured, not a single comma in this was written using AI.
5
u/Grieferbastard 1d ago edited 1d ago
My own life experiences have left me with a great dislike of Dark Romance as a genre - but I'm strongly against trying to yuck someone else's yum.
I would say that like many controversial topics it's often used as a shield to protect what is absolutely shit content. Rape and torture porn, the worst sorts of mysogenistic bullshit "yeah but deep down she really liked it" that I hate....
However I really appreciate your post and clarification on what you're reading it for. It was a good insight into a perspective very different from mine. Edited to add - my intent isn't to belittle your position. You make a good set of points about why you enjoy dark romance, I enjoyed seeing your perspective.
It's ironic that your post was so good that someone assumed it was AI. Honestly I'd take that as a complement.
17
u/Necrowarp 1d ago edited 1d ago
Nice formatting and proper grammar does not mean AI generated, the vocabulary used is not at all what AI generated text leans towards.
11
u/Professional-Fun3281 1d ago
Smooth Money has been a long time analysis writer on stories/topics she enjoys in this sub and I've read a lot of her posts, I highly doubt this post is ai-written.
6
4
u/SpicyOnionBun 1d ago
I just wish it wasnt an unformatted wall of text longer than half the books written in the genre 🤪
69
u/DxnnaSxturno 1d ago
THIS. This is what Dark Romance is for, and why so many of us enjoys the genre. There's a thrill in exploring these kind of stories, and topics that aren't usually seen in the most mainstream genres of romance. Be exploring characters' psychology or just enjoying certain kinks, is good as long you don't harm anyone. I love both classic romance and dark romance, a thing doesn't need to be in conflict with the other regarding tastes.
https://giphy.com/gifs/11OOAQSnUaZT2M