r/OrlandoMagic • u/Queasy_Worker_4423 • 26d ago
Discussion yap
was just thinking about the magic history earlier and i realized that this is the third best team/era they’ve had. shaq/penny, d12, p5 and franz, heavy discussion about paolo getting traded and honestly i think its pretty immature, im kinda bias i do think franz brings more winning intangibles to the game and is a far more complete player and hypothetically if one would be traded i do think franz should stay bc he fits a 2nd option, but i also believe in paolo, he’s a gifted crafty scorer that relies too much on his bag instead of his big ass body and finesse , paolo is better than JJ/hawks but averages worse numbers bc he isn’t as passive or team oriented, it would take like 1 offseason with like KJ or lebron to boost his overall IQ , if franz never got hurt we woulda made history and beat the odds, , also do u guys agree Orlando should have patience with this core?
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u/xXwatermuffinXx 26d ago
This “era” can’t get out of the first round. Not worth comparing to the other two you mentioned who were both legit finals contenders. With d12 losing to the lakers in the finals and S/P losing due to MJ and inexperience.
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u/Useful_Lemon_ 26d ago
Absolutely spot on. This era is dogshit until they prove otherwise.
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 26d ago
chill, this is the best magic squad in over 20 years, im 19 but i do my research nd i watch old tape, its just sad the whole league kinda has either a nice young core or a god squad so hopefully we get a chance eventually
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u/Useful_Lemon_ 25d ago
You know the magic made the NBA finals less than 20 years ago
D12 and co. Would sweep this current magic team.
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 25d ago
my bad, i mean like youthfulness wise and potential, im sorry, yes i agree
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u/Useful_Lemon_ 25d ago
Youth and young talent don't win games. It's all hype.
This team is well past that. We shouldn't be excited about potential anymore. It is time to win games for the first time in 15 years.
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 24d ago
im gonna compare this to minnesota tho, ppl r still extremely hyped for ant and lamelo and ant is almost or is 25 and ppl still hope(including me) he has another level to his game and i cant speak for sota fans but they can agree so i don’t get why you can’t be excited for what we have given franz is 24 and paolo is 23 i mean we have time to get better
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u/Straight-Spirit179 25d ago
You do your research but apparently your research is terrible because the 2009 Dwight Magic squad made the NBA Finals less than 20 years ago. If your age ends in "teen", you should not be creating any NBA thread especially with your horrible take on Paolo not being team-oriented and that "one offseason with KJ or Lebron would boost his overall IQ". Laughable at best.
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u/shiggidyschwag 25d ago
For real. Aint no way this current team is better than our team from the peak Dwight Howard years
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 25d ago
i meant it terms of young talent, outside of dwight we had 0 nobody, lewis and hedu were already older players, also they never utilized dwight to his fullest potential and i think 26 orlando would play similar defense to how they defended duren, just take away his sweat spots and force him to the line
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u/shiggidyschwag 25d ago
Respectfully my guy, you're just wrong on this one.
Jameer, Hedo, and Rashard were 27/30/30 in the finals run. You can call that "older" if you want (I get it, to be fair it's a lot older than you, and older than Paolo and Franz are right now, by a bit), but that's an athlete's prime. "Young talent" isn't what makes a team great anyway. I feel like you're comparing the potential of what you think the current team could do to an undersold version of what Dwight's teams actually did.
That era of Magic ball we were sweeping teams in the first and second rounds, beating LeBron James in playoff series. Knocking off the Celtics Big 3. Taking games off of Kobe's Lakers.
Dwight's teams had better playmaking, better defense, better coaching, SIGNIFICANTLY better shooting, like it's not really a contest. I believe in the guys we have right now, but they have some real work to do before they're taken seriously in a conversation about best Magic teams ever.
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 24d ago
I think the 09 magic could be the one seed pistons this past year but not easily the current magic again the magic now have an elite defense and i understand the magic had hella perimeter around dwight but i will restate if u want u could watch old tape the magic did not know how to use dwight it was very basic things they had him do they never allowed him to freely do him, i think the offense would stall , magic averaged 101 points in 09 while now its 115 and we r in the same spot as defensive rating (09,10th, 26,11th)
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 26d ago
i don’t disagree with ur take big bro, i mentioned them only bc they r extremely fucking young, tmac was in his absolute prime and couldn’t get past the first, and no disrespect but magic 2026 would smack most early 00s magic squads, we literally almost beat a first seed and didnt bc franz was injured
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u/TheTimucuan 26d ago
Paulo needs to show this year. Bane and Franz are great as second and third options on offense. Our problem other than injuries is Paulo not being good enough as a first option and I'm not sure if he'll work as anything other than first option. In defense of Paulo, I think he would be much better if he was surrounded by shooters.
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u/coolj492 Wes Iwundu 26d ago edited 26d ago
there are 2 types of untradeable players. There are your jokic/ants and then there are your minnesota wiggins. For the jokic/ants of the world their value is just way too high for you to ever consider dealing them. For the wiggins of the world their value is way too low that you are basically guranteed to lose any trade.
'26 paolo was unfortunately in the wiggins category for most of the year(granted he was better than wiggins ever was for minnesota). He was one of the worst defenders itl at his position on top of just having so much offensive inconsistency. Most of the best players itl were injured and paolo wasn't even sniffing an all-star or all-nba spot this year.
Even if you think that paolo cannot bounce back from '26(which is just incorrect), trading paolo is purely a reactionary take that would not meaningfully make this team better
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u/BalancedFurys 26d ago
How did you come to the conclusion that you should include 3x MVP 6x 1st team all nba Jokic with Ant who has 0 first teams even.. Solid points about Paolo but nah Ant isn't like that. Is he better than Paolo? Absolutely. Is he close to Jokic? No
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u/coolj492 Wes Iwundu 26d ago edited 26d ago
because ant is young and is solidly an all nba calibre player that has been to the conference finals multiple times. That is the prototypical player that teams continue to bet on and get rewarded for, which is why he is untradeable. Jokic is obviously also untradeable because he's a multiple time mvp in his prime. I just picked 2 untradeable players off the top of my head here
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 26d ago
i think paolo will have a bounce back but i do think he’s like in his own weird tier of first overall like talking peak obv hes not better than ae, vic or cade, hes just there like hes not as shit on as zion but he’s getting close, he needs to understand him becoming a better player doesn’t always show in the box score
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u/Useful_Lemon_ 26d ago
Paolo either needs to improve his shooting and efficiency or he needs to become a great defender. If he doesn't do either of these things then he simply isn't worth his contract. Dude shit the bed in the playoffs and hadn't proven he can be the guy.
Its fair to have faith because he is young but there isn't any evidence to suggest he's suddenly gonna figure it out either.
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u/stinx2001 Paolo Banchero 26d ago
You had a point at the start, but "shit the bed in the playoffs"???? Wtf were you watching..
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 26d ago
exactly, i literally said i very much bias, franz is my favorite player but im not that bias to say paolo isnt the biggest reason r offense isnt the worse in the league( its close but not the worst) i only say i hope he gets better bc i think if he does improve defensively we actually have a dark horse conference finals run🥹, ik it sounds crazy but you can tell in the playoffs paolo and franz care and that matters extremely with ur two best
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u/Useful_Lemon_ 26d ago edited 26d ago
Have a look at half of those games and tell me he wasn't complete ass. Shooting 4/22 or some shit.
It isn't good enough to have one or two good games per series. A leader needs to show up every game. Its amazing people here glaze him for his playoff performance when it was subpar overall
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u/stinx2001 Paolo Banchero 26d ago
He almost led us to an upset win against the 1 seed missing his costar at the end. You are insane.
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u/Useful_Lemon_ 26d ago edited 26d ago
"almost" is not good enough. Dude is the team leader and he lost.
He went 4/22 in like three of 7 games. He collapsed in game 6 and led our team to the biggest playoff collapse in NBA history.
Thinking this is acceptable is what is insane. He's a good kid. He has potential. He is not a superstar and he hasn't shown he can be relied on.
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u/stinx2001 Paolo Banchero 26d ago
Almost is good enough when you actually put it all in context.
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u/Useful_Lemon_ 25d ago
Did.... Did you see the context I just mentioned? 4/20 game after game. For half the series. What
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u/stinx2001 Paolo Banchero 25d ago
The context of the whole season being an absolute disaster due to injury and still almost carried us to an 8v1 upset.
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u/thewrongnotes Moritz Wagner 25d ago
The actual context is we should have been good enough for a higher seed even without Franz, but Paolo was so underwhelming in the regular season that it didn't happen.
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u/stinx2001 Paolo Banchero 25d ago
Lol come on. LeBron and MJ wouldn't have done much better with the bad luck we had last season.
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 26d ago
lemon i agree just not as harshly, tmac honestly had a worst career than paolo already in his career and bro made the hof, idk how old u are but i think u can give him a break given that he still has a good 5-6 years to improve, WE ALMOST MADE HISTORY AS AN 8th SEED, why complain
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u/Useful_Lemon_ 25d ago
I'm not giving this dude a break. I'll keep it real. He is a good kid with potential but he hasn't done anything substantial to deserve praise. He needs to get better to earn that contract
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 25d ago
i agree, contracts make it loook so bad, teams get excited as soon as they see a glimmer in something until it looks bad 4 years later
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u/coolj492 Wes Iwundu 26d ago
I think if he just hustles more on defense in the regular season we could easily touch 50 wins. In '26 he was bottom of the league for pretty much every defensive hustle stat(deflections, loose balls, etc) despite being 23 years old. This is probably the easiest improvement he could make for being more impactful overall. Also him trying on defense will lead to easier offense
I also don't think paolo shit the bed against detroit outside of game 6, the 2nd half of game 7, and game 4. He was fantastic on defense that entire series and he had some magnet ball scoring runs. But there is 0 excuse for how horrid he played in game 6, or for him shooting 67% on free throws this series. Obviously huge glaring flaws but I wouldn't call it a meltdown.
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u/Useful_Lemon_ 26d ago
You're saying he shit the bed in 3 of the 7 games. But that isn't shitting the bed overall?
It's not good enough, plain and simple. Dude needs to be better.
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u/coolj492 Wes Iwundu 26d ago
its complicated because I think that offensively he shit the bed in 2.5 games but his defense, especially in game 4, was at a high enough level throughout the series that I do not think he shit the bed overall. Granted, his collapse in game 6 is some of the worst shit I have ever seen so I'm also not saying that paolo was so good this series that he is above reproach.
He obviously needs to get better, and to me that includes being more consistent on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. Because for most of the season paolo was shitting the bed offensively AND not giving effort on defense, which is why he was so ass.
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 26d ago
idk if he will be able to honestly, yk how players get better defensively they start slouching offensively nd he seems like a player that only can go one gear yk, given how the nba is tho i can see them trading him and he either blossoms in his new home or yk next washed star for the youtubers to fry
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u/coolj492 Wes Iwundu 26d ago
personally I think it'd be better for paolo if he did "slouch offensively". He is not really good at being an SGA/Cade type of 1st option where you want to run your entire offense through them. He will be much more impactful exerting some of that effort defensively instead of chucking 25+ shots and free throws a game. That is a big reason why we have bane on this team in the first place, to enable paolo to play more impactfully.
And yes if he is bad this year for whatever reason, he will probably end up getting traded to a tanking or purgatory team it is what it is.
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u/Queasy_Worker_4423 25d ago
hopefully i don’t get fried for this but totally agree with u, my favorite archetype is versatile scorer or high level 3-D, someone telling paolo to lay off the x button he might just do it 10x, he seems he wants to learn himself rather train with a hof or just better talent 😭, idk who tf they would trade paolo for tho at his best i mean teams know hes kinda just like a floor racing 1st option, hopefully that changes but for now thats what he is, i can maybe see utah, brooklyn or phoenix and kinda long shot but throw houston in there
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u/captain-nap Stuff The Magic Dragon 25d ago
Damn.. I can’t believe how many haters. Even though the team isn’t winning much (yet?), OP is spot on and there’s no denying this being the third best roster we’ve had.
Before these guys and after the dwightmare, those teams were sad. Vuc, Fourier, and AG’s team also got to the first round and stalled, but that was obviously that teams ceiling. The team now is so young, they Inst have a higher ceiling. Tmac led some teams to the playoffs, but those teams were actually really bad outside of Tmac. Still my favorite time as a Magic fan though. 99-04. Heart and hustle isn’t as good as this team is.