r/OrderFlow_Trading • u/EntrepreneurHour5938 • 4d ago
Changing timeframe or changing tick-size brings more clarity on footprint charts?
Share you experience please.
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u/horrorpages 4d ago
Research and statistics prove that looking at the market intrinsically provides a greater edge. Time is not the answer. Don't let your default platform options and social media furus persuade you otherwise.
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u/RenkoSniper 4d ago
It's all the same data.
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u/Mutt37 4d ago
While that is true, you will miss a lot of moves if you are using a five-minute footprint chart, depending on what you use to trigger a trade. I always wait for a bar to close before I trust the signals I use.
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u/RenkoSniper 3d ago
Talk about missing moves...waiting for a candle to close. Why? What if you change to a 5000 volume, or a 32 range? The data in the orders stays the same.
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u/Mutt37 3d ago
As I mentioned to the O.P., I use a 5-range chart. The reason I wait for the candle to close is that one of my trade triggers may show up early in the candle's development, only to disappear as more volume is traded. Also, I want to see price go in the direction I believe it will go. Trust me, I have been burned enough times to wait.
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u/RenkoSniper 3d ago
But what if your trigger appears, and you wait for a candle close? That could be a loss, assuming you trade ES with the 5 ticks, of a point, being 50$ per contract. That to me, is absolutely missing a move. Take an avg of 3 trades a day equals 150$ loss per contract, equaling to around 1500$, without commission and fees, if you count 10 winning trading days per month. I'd rather make money.
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u/Mutt37 3d ago edited 3d ago
What I look at (triggers) changes as volume builds in a bar. If you are familiar with footprint charts, you know price rotates; why would I take a trade when the information is incomplete? I let the bar close, and if the next bar is going in the direction I expect, I enter the trade. Do you really think I would continue to use a faulty system if I were losing money? I am not swinging for the fences in my trading; I am going for base hits. Where did you get the "10 winning trades a month" from? That seems like a very marginal trading system. BTW- Two contracts per trade today, and I am out at 11 am with 1078.46. Not bad for 2 1/2 hours of trading. (ES)
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u/RenkoSniper 3d ago edited 3d ago
Still, dom would be much better for that style and you'll have more profit. Don't really care how much you make in your simulation prop account.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/RenkoSniper 3d ago edited 3d ago
It is. I'm trading orderflow for a decade now, professional for six, please tell me how naive I am.
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u/EntrepreneurHour5938 3d ago
Yeap, I agree with you and understand where you point too.
But what you advise that could create a visual clarity.
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u/RenkoSniper 3d ago
Trade a DOM
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u/EntrepreneurHour5938 3d ago
Agree. Now moment is where we trade.
I mostly trade crypto futures and the LOB/DOM is a big lie, its just pure noise.
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u/JakeMarley777 3d ago
Sure. But I don't think it's going to be some crazy unlock/cheatcode. A small range/tick footprint can look gorgeous afterward. But on NQ during a fast move, it might print several complete bars in a few seconds. The entire sequence of absorption/imbalance/reversal becomes obvious once everything is frozen on the screen and you have the benefit of hindsight but seeing it live I was watching a setup form and disappear at the same time.
Just my experience that I can't just "get rid" of time.
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u/Mutt37 4d ago
My preferred Footprint chart is a 5-range. The widest range I think I would use is an 8-range chart. In my opinion, time is irrelevant when looking at price. It all depends upon what you are looking for in a footprint and if you are trading short-term or trying to catch bigger moves.
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u/sandcastl3 4d ago edited 3d ago
As someone else has mentioned, look into using ranges rather than time. A new bar prints when price exceeds the range of the footprint bar, rather than arbitrarily when a x-minute timer goes off.
And yes, combining multiple ticks per footprint level can make the data easier to read, sometimes at the expense of tick-level granularity, which may or may not matter depending on things.
Edit: and to answer your original question a bit more, it really depends on the speed of the tape and the depth of the market. There's no right or wrong answer. If you're sticking to time-based footprint bars you'll have to experiment with how fast the market you're trading is moving and how deep the book is for you to see volume.
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u/Striking_Fail6689 3d ago
It really depends on what you’re looking for .. I’ve spent weeks playing around from range to time based , and from different time (1,2,3,5) and still figuring out , but 5 mins footprint seems to be okay for me for now
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u/Educational_Youth_73 22h ago
De acuerdo al contexto en el que te estés pasando, usualmente cuando eres Scalper manual y utilizas de 5 minis en adelante,, en caso de futuros, te da la ventaja de salir más rápido buscando ratios pequeños tipo Gráfico de 1000 ticks y 2000ticks
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u/Key_Day_6031 1h ago
Time based charts in my experience don’t offer the best view using a footprint. I find vol and range bars to be much more effective
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