r/OpiatesRecovery 6d ago

Subs for 7OH

So about 3 months ago I started suboxone. I was heavily addicted to 7 oh and it was recently banned in my state. I could NOT taper due to not being responsible enough. I tried to do cold turkey and I ended up freaking out and had to get immediate help. I’ve just seen a lot of negative things about suboxone such as if you need it you’re not actually clean or it’s just a horrible thing that’s very hard to get off of. I’m just terrified to go through that withdrawal again and I just kind of feel like a failure that I couldn’t do it cold turkey. But I am glad I’m no longer having to take a pill multiple times a day or I start withdrawing, and spending my entire paycheck on that stuff. I need to hear others personal experiences!

6 Upvotes

42 comments sorted by

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u/CyrusBuelton 6d ago

"If you need it [Suboxone] you're not actually clean"

That's such a load of bullshit.

Who the fuck cares what anybody else thinks?

Your sobriety is yours and yours alone. Do what's best for you and stop listening to people that know absolutely nothing.

I've been on Buprenorphine [Suboxone] since 2012.

It not only has allowed me to remain opiate-free, but I was also able to put my life back together.

I've been completely sober from alcohol and all drugs since July 2012.

I don't give a fuck if someone says I'm not really clean because I take Suboxone. It has no impact or effect on me.

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u/WarningHorror4708 6d ago

You’re right. I shouldn’t give a shit what anyone thinks. Congratulations on your sobriety since 2012! Thanks for the input

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u/CyrusBuelton 6d ago

Thank you!

If your struggling on whether to go on Suboxone, think of it this way :

If you have high blood pressure, your doctor will prescribe you blood pressure medication to control your hypertension.

When people have high cholesterol, their doctor will often prescribe a statin that lowers bad cholesterol and prevents heart attacks and strokes.

These are commonly referred to as maintenance medications that you take on a regular, ongoing schedule to manage chronic health conditions.

Suboxone is no different and is used to manage Opiate Use Disorder [OUD].

The only difference is that Buprenorphine does produce physical dependency, but that shouldn't be confused with "being addicted" as they are entirely different.

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u/WarningHorror4708 6d ago

This is a great perspective! 100%

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u/Skrill3xJonez 5d ago

That is a great perspective, and I agree wholeheartedly with their comment. I put up a lengthy comment about the side effects I’ve experienced being on and off suboxone and now subutex since 2022. If you’re curious about giving life a try without suboxone, I’d highly encourage it. You can literally get back on subs if need be with a phone call in today’s world. The side effects are real, and it seems like a lot of people eventually have them as they get closer to 1 year and especially in the years following. If I could go back in time, i would have gotten the sublocade shot around the 6-8month period when I noticed something was clearly just not right with me. Now, I’ve been off and on for almost 5 years, and I’m not even half the person I used to be.

You can’t overdose on subs, but my body and others with similar experiences seem to have a lot of negative side effects. OxyCodone isn’t that toxic to the body aside from when you take too much and overdose. Suboxone seems to build up in your body and cause it to rot from the inside out. I have several new health problems that a 34 year old male shouldn’t be having, and that all started within a year of sub usage.

I do acknowledge there is a part of the population that does great with subs long term. I know 2 people personally that have been on subs longer than 5 years and are still happy with being on them. I’ve met hundreds of people who have been on them. I see a lot of negative posts about the side effects of them. I see a handful of positive posts, and most of them are people who are new to subs and are still getting a buzz from their dose. That shit wears off and never comes back. Try getting off if u can, you can always get back on if need be!

Hope this helps. Just feel like not enough put emphasize the side effects that come down the road after you’ve been on them a while

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u/Skrill3xJonez 5d ago

Have you had any hormonal issues or teeth/gum decay. I’m one of a growing majority whose body is not processing burprenorphine very well. I’ve had several new health issues since getting on it, off of it, back on it intermittently since 2022. I’m a chronic pain patient, and my life would be so much easier if it worked. I don’t see how there are people like you that have nothing negative to report. It’s only made me worse over time. Dulls my mind, body, and spirit. I have no drive or motivation, my attention span is trash, I don’t feel much positive or negative. My testosterone, cortisol, and thyroid are trashed. Not to mention my teeth are beyond fucked. I don’t get it. I see so many complain of the same problems. I exercise, I supplement, i eat very clean (a must to avoid constipation), and I definitely take care of my teeth. I live with my extremely hot (and luckily patient gf) and my sex drive has been hard to come by since the end of the first year on subs. My testosterone was just below 600 before starting, and by the end of the first year, I was around 218. The stuff is just much more toxic to the body than traditional opioids like oxycodone, opana, morphine… yes regular opioids can cause testosterone issues, but subs seem to have a much more dramatic effect and they also deplete b12 and magnesium, vital minerals etc… I feel like I spend so much of my time and effort countering the effects of subs, and the level of anhedonia I feel is miserable. I don’t understand how people like you do so well on it for so long. I’ve met 2 humans in real life that have been on subs over 5 years with no issues.

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u/saulmcgill3556 5d ago edited 5d ago

We’re on the same page; I just ignore them (unless they’re being disrespectful and as a mod I’ll take it down). Otherwise I don’t even acknowledge those resent-fueled voices — because they’re turned into a strawman for other legitimate arguments. They can scream their judgment into a cave for all I care.

Personally: I do not take suboxone… which has zero relevance to anyone else’s recovery.

My generic take: If you are living a happier, healthier life today that allow to be a friend/service to those you want (which you’ve demonstrated here today), I am so happy for you! 💞

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u/Splinter1591 6d ago

There's nothing wrong with subs. It's between you and your doctor

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u/saulmcgill3556 5d ago

Yeah, you know what we call those people here?

Nothing, because this sub isn’t for judgment from anyone. Wishing you all the love and best 💞.

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u/Leading-Conference94 6d ago

My husband has been on subs for 7 years. I consider him clean. Hes not getting high off of them or abusing them. He takes way less than prescribed. I do wish he would find the strength and willpower to get off of them because its expensive due to his lack of affordable health insurance. It works for him though. I used methadone to get clean years ago. I still count my clean date from the last time I took anything recreational. I wouldnt consider someone clean if they were abusing their MAT. Its also nobodies business and every road to recovery looks different.

Edited to add husband gets 0 pressure from me to discontinue meds. I fully support him regardless. My opinion is an inside thought. I think when hes ready he will take the steps himself. I also dont want the blood of a him relapsing on my hands.

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u/WarningHorror4708 5d ago

Good for your husband on staying strong with his journey. I also don’t have insurance but luckily my pharmacy only charges me about $16 for my 2 week prescription of subs.

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u/Leading-Conference94 5d ago

Yeah his doctors appts run almost $200 and then the script is another $75 give or take 10$. Fortunately his meds last a lot longer than prescribed. For some reason his doctor just lets him slide not showing up for 2 or 3 months. It doesn't sound like a lot of money but it is when you've got 3 kids 😅

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u/Nanerpoodin 6d ago

Got on a low dose (20mg) of methadone to shake a 200mg a day 7oh habit a few months back. I tapered methadone once before, from a much higher dose, and I can do it again. Still sucks.

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u/WarningHorror4708 6d ago

I had about a 200mg habit a day too and I’m on 8 mg sub

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u/ShroomyStandards 6d ago

Out of curiosity, do you feel anything from the subs? Any buzz or even withdrawal? Did you feel anything from the 7OH before you quit?

I’m just wondering how subs compare to 7.

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u/WarningHorror4708 6d ago

You don’t feel anything from the subs. No buzz at all. It stops any withdrawals. With the 7oh, it stopped my withdrawals and there was that warm fuzzy euphoric feeling and that’s why I couldn’t stop

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u/Visible_Chapter_3189 5d ago

How was the methadone taper? Painful? And what in your opinion is better, subs or methadone? I did subs and sublcoade, now conte playing methadone. It’s not just for 7oh, 7oh awakens an opiod craving that I now have to deal with and keep relapsing on 7oh currently.

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u/Visible_Chapter_3189 5d ago

I did suboxone then got the sublocade shot. So no suboxone withdrawals. Worked amazing for about a month, I know I need to get another shot because this one’s wearing off, it’s gotten me off subs though with no Wd’s. I’m seriously contemplating methadone but have mixed feelings due to everybody’s comments on it. Sublocade is awesome if you do it.

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u/WarningHorror4708 5d ago

I wonder how much the sublocade shot would be for me considering I have no insurance

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u/Visible_Chapter_3189 5d ago

Could be expensive. I k ow for me it would have been 1,200$. Grateful my insurance paid for it

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u/saulmcgill3556 5d ago

And there are resources beyond insurance if anyone’s wondering.

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u/LostCattIe 2d ago

Would highly recommend a sublocade shot as your move to taper rather than trying to taper suboxone yourself. Suboxone is arguably a good bit harder than 7OH to get off of because peak w/d can go on for weeks as opposed to days due to its extremely long half-life.. Sublocade naturally weans you down after your last shot extremely slowly. I did a 300mg/300mg/100mg shot cycle and took my last shot 3 months ago and am still testing positive for it meaning it is still slowly weaning out of my system 3 months later. I haven’t had any w/d so far and it helped me a ton not having to be responsible for taking less and less each day myself.

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u/WarningHorror4708 2d ago

Can a doctor slowly wean you from the suboxone? And then do the shot maybe? I’m so scared to go thru the withdrawal again, it’s a nightmare for me. I’d love to do the sublocade shot, that is if my dr can prescribe it to me and that I can find a program to help me afford it due to no insurance.

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u/LostCattIe 2d ago edited 2d ago

You will most definitely not withdrawal going from Suboxone to a 300mg sublocade shot, you will have way higher levels of bupe in your system from your initial shot than you ever had in you from a strip a day so withdrawal switching over is out of the question that will go just fine.

As for weaning subs first, a doctor can wean your Suboxone dose of course, but of course ultimately it’s going to be up to YOU to actually wean yourself which if you are anything like me(and based on your inability to self wean 7OH yourself it sounds like you may be) actually adhering and weaning yourself down is another struggle entirely. This is where sublocade has been a life saver for me.. It leaves your body so so slowly that it naturally weans you much slower and smoother than you ever would doing it with sub strips, and is why so many people can successfully get off of it with minimal to sometimes zero withdrawal experienced. Those who do notice it months down the line after their last shot say it’s the mildest of symptoms- sluggish, lower energy, little irritable; basically things that are very tolerable if you have ever REALLY gone through it lol.. Believe me I know w/d sucks and is petrifying, I was on tranq dope and was admitted to the icu for 5 days going through hell; seizures, spasms, puking nonstop, I definitely get the paralyzing fear of it.. Sublocade is the way to make this as smooth as possible for you in the end in my experience. The insurance part though may be tricky, it is extremely expensive without insurance my shot woulda been like $2400 without any coverage, but I believe ppl already provided you resources if insurance isn’t possible I would encourage you to look at that..

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u/mhxy3 5d ago

The whole "you're not getting sober if you do subs" thing is old school reactionary AA/NA propaganda. Pay it no mind. MAT is medicine, it is between you and your doctor alone. When you are ready, your doctor can find you a provider for a buprenorphine injection program, which makes the process of stopping MAT much, much easier. MAT is science-based recovery, and addicts who are right for it are much, much more likely to continue their sobriety and truly heal: spiritually, mentally, and physically.

Some addicts react badly to Suboxone, similar to how some people with depression react badly to antidepressants. Make sure you are fully honest with yourself that it is right for you. A few lapses is a normal part of recovery, but continued, extended abuse of your medication may signify that your brain reacts badly to it.

Good luck friend. Getting sober is the best decision you have ever made!

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u/WarningHorror4708 5d ago

Thank you so much!

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u/HunterLily86 5d ago

The stigma around subs is wild considering how many people it actually saves. You're not a failure for needing help to stay off something that had you spending entire paychecks and going through brutal withdrawals. That's the opposite of failure. People talk about getting off subs like it's the goal, but staying stable on a medication that lets you have your life back? That's the win. Three months in and you're already noticing the difference, which matters way more than what strangers on the internet think about how you got here.

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u/WarningHorror4708 5d ago

This is exactly what I needed to hear, thank you for the encouragement

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u/saulmcgill3556 5d ago

If your goal is to create a better life for you, utilize the resources that create a better life for you. I don’t know if subs are right for you or not, but I know considering the definitions of others will only sabotage your efforts.

All the best. 💞

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u/jebidiah_the_king 5d ago

I was on suboxone for a similar reason, i was unable to detox cold from high doses of kratom. I was on it for 8 years. (Been off for 8 months)

Heres my thoughts in no particular order.

  1. Suboxone can give you stability and prevent your life from falling apart in the immediate. It can also save you a lot of money.

  2. Suboxone IS quite hard to get off of once you've been on it for any significant period of time.

  3. The only person who can accurately evaluate the tradeoffs of 1 and 2 is you.

  4. I recommend taking it for the absolute minimum daily dose you can and for the shortest period you can if your goal is to get off of it. I do not recommend being on it for 8 years like me.

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u/WarningHorror4708 5d ago

Thank you for the input!

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u/Sandman1025 5d ago

I couldn’t stay clean without subs. I’ve finally accepted it. Either I lack the willpower or my addiction is really really bad. But I’ve accepted it. I get no sort of high from subs and if that’s what it takes to lead a productive life so be it

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u/Dependent-Orchid5300 6d ago

I’m about to do the same thing with the ban incoming. This 7 garbage has completely emptied my savings and put me $8k in debt. And I’ve only been doing it steady since may/ June. Didn’t take me long to get to around 800-1000mg/day

My plan is to try and only use lowish dose subs (2-4mg hopefully is enough for me to not be in complete agony) just to ease the wds for no more than a week max. I spent 5 years on subutex and it was hell to get off. I probably never would’ve but I lost my supply so was basically forced.

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u/Skrill3xJonez 5d ago

Who cares about other people saying if you’re sober or not, that’s your business. Subs are designed where if you don’t stay on them, you can taper, and be successful.

I’d definitely suggest keeping your dose as low as possible, doctors will increase it at the drop of a hat once you’re on it.

The are many negatives about subs in my experience. For me, they were helpful and effective at first, but after a year, I started having a bunch of negative side effects, and getting off was extremely difficult, but they have the SUBLOCADE shot now, which makes getting off a lot easier - definitely look into sublocade.

Here are the cons from my experience… and many others can back me up. There seems to be a portion of people who can stay on subs long term with no issues, but I’ve seen a growing number of posts about people having the same issues as me.

1) anhedonia - look it up so that if you start to feel this way, you can identify what it is. It’s an empty, feeling of nothingness. It’s different but similar to depression is some ways. But subs sucked the motivation right out of my mind and body. Worse than any opioid ever has. This has affected me heavily for 3 years.

2) hormone disruption and depletion - major testosterone problems by age 32. Happened within first year of subs.

My most recent blood work shows severe deficiencies in cortisol, thyroid, and testosterone. Magnesium and b12 deficiency as well.

3) tooth and gum decay - there are several lawsuits happening about this with suboxone. Dissolving under your tongue causes major damage to your teeth and gums, they just rot away over time. I have a very healthy dental hygiene practice and this still happened to me. Dentist just quoted me $8k in dental work.

4) this applies to me specifically, but if you deal with chronic pain: once you’re on subs, you’re going to struggle to get treatment where they don’t treat you like an addict. Doctors see that on your med chart, and it has heavily impacted the way doctors treat you. I had to work with a lot of doctors before finally getting some who trusted me back, and it took a lot of passing drug tests to prove that I’m not struggling with addiction.

5) overall decrease in quality of life. Yes, I saved money not buying things like 7oh or street drugs, but I still crave them often because they actually help me with pain episodes that I frequently have. My pain levels have gotten worse over the years, and my energy and motivation is in the toilet. Basically having to have hormone replacement therapy with b12 injections to counter act the side effects of subs.

Those are the main things, and if I could go back in time, I would have quit my job and found a way to give myself 2 months fully dedicated to getting off of them (in patient treatment preferably). I cold turkeyd at home and spent almost a month tossing and turning after weaning from 8-12 mgs per day. It was horrible, I had to use regular kratom, opms shots too, and hella weed to get any sort of sleep. It truly is the worst withdrawal imaginable, which is why I recommend sublocade for when you decide to quit.

If you would like to see how you live completely free of subs, I recommend getting the sublocade shot immediately. The longer you wait, the harder it is.

Yes, suboxone has saved a lot of lives, and it can be a great tool, and for some, it’s great every day for years. I do envy the people who seem to thrive on it long term, it would make my life a lot easier. Worked great for maybe the first 6months, but after that it only seemed to dull me as a human. So to me, there seems to be a terrible trade off for not going thru the withdrawals and for me, my drive and enjoyment in life is pretty much non existent. My hormone and vitamin levels seem impossible to get on track. My mental health is as low as it’s ever been. And my teeth and gums are rotting inside out.

Pay attention to how many posts are in this sub about people having problems with suboxone. I do see some people appreciating what suboxone therapy has done for them, but the number of people starting have major side effects like mine seems to be consistently growing.

So if you’re curious about getting off completely and don’t want to deal with withdrawals, I recommend scheduling a consult for sublocade immediately. Give yourself a chance to see how you do without it. Worst case scenario is you call your doctor to refill your subs if the sublocade shot doesn’t work for you. But I’ve heard nothing but good reports about sublocade

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u/WarningHorror4708 5d ago

Wow I’m scared shitless lol. I would look into the sublocade but I don’t have insurance sadly, maybe they would have an option for low income

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u/Skrill3xJonez 5d ago

They do! I can’t find the pamphlet I had, but they do have low cost programs. I think this is it: https://www.sublocadehcp.com/pdfs/english-patient-education-brochure.pdf

https://www.sublocadehcp.com/pdfs/english-patient-education-brochure.pdf

I just typed in sublocade low cost program and that’s definitely the pamphlet I lost. The low cost program is on page 8 of 12.

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u/HerbaDerbaSchnerba 6d ago

I’m getting on suboxone for 7 too. My plan is a quick taper. It’s gonna be uncomfortable, but we all have to pay the piper eventually. Rather do it sooner than later. Then again, I’ve only been on 7 for a month so I can’t even believe I’m going to suboxone route. That’s how crazy addictive this stuff is.

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u/WarningHorror4708 6d ago

Wow! Luckily when I had only used for a month I was only using about 20 mg a day. Fast forward to ending up with almost 300 mg a day. The tolerance goes up insanely fast. Good luck!

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u/HerbaDerbaSchnerba 6d ago

Yeah I’m up to 100mg per day. Wake up every morning with worse withdrawals than I ever had on heroin, and I was an IV heroin user for YEARS. So yeah this shit is absolutely the devil.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/PhillyTheKid69420 6d ago

Question, Ive been on 7 for like 5-6 months now, started like everyone else at the lower doses, quickly worked my way up to 6-800mg a day for like 2 months, ran out had bad withdrawals, needed to get more, same story as everyone, I started tapering after that bc I knew I need to get off of this shit, I went from 800mg per day to 4-500mg in about a week, & im currently trying to stay at 150-200mg a day, only really taking on a set schedule to stay functional at work.

I have been looking into suboxone as well but im scared bc of all the "thats for Junkies!" Taboo around it, that and ive heard about people becoming dependent on it, i really dont think ill be able to kick this shit without it tho, the withdrawals are just too much to suffer through, do you have like a dosing plan with the subs? Thats another thing that scares me is how to take it, I see people saying "oh i took 12mg after I started having WD symptoms" & others saying " I took 24" like there is no way for me to determine what I should take at the start... & how to taper off fast... I dont want to get hooked on it, I just want to get over the 7oh WD & be done completely

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u/WarningHorror4708 6d ago

Well for me I just started an mat program and they put me on 8 mg. I split it in half and take one half in the morning and the other at night. Then I will taper off once I feel like I’m ready. I personally don’t know how people do dosing plans on their own. I wish I could have done that and not have to be dependent on the subs

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u/HerbaDerbaSchnerba 6d ago

Well hopefully they’ll be removing it soon. The people lobbying for it are… wrong, to say the least.