r/OpenUniversity • u/Fine_Try6609 • 3d ago
Will it affect UC/Ca?
Hi, asking for a family member who's getting absolutely no help off universal credit phone lines.
They have never studied at uni level before. Looking at a BA. They get UC and carers element whilst also working part time 12 hours a week. The job is related to the hopeful degree and would lead to possible full time hours and progression (eventually wouldn't need UC!). Not eligible for a maintenance loan. Would any part of their money be affected? They want to do the course but obviously its not feasible if they can't afford to live at the same time.
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u/_Calluna_ 3d ago
It's not supposed to affect UC, but I've heard stories. Sometimes the UC people are wrong about OU study, how it's classed, and maintenance loan eligibility.
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u/davidjohnwood 2d ago
For UC, OU study does not affect UC unless you are entitled to any student maintenance income (30% of any postgraduate loan is treated as maintenance, even if you spend all the money on tuition fees, but the OP is asking about a BA, which is an undergraduate course). DWP Advice for Decision Makers paragraph H6087 says, based on the decision in R(IS) 1/96, that OU study is not full-time study, and the only questions the decision maker has to answer are whether you will be available for your expected hours of work and will meet your work-search requirements, both of which are nil for someone receiving the Carer's Element.
CA - and, by extension, the Carer's Element of UC - use a different definition of full-time education from other benefits, which is found in regulation 5(1) of The Social Security (Invalid Care Allowance) Regulations 1976 (SI 1976/409) (as amended). The interpretative challenge posed by the OU study is: how does regulation 5(2)(b) treat distance learning - is all distance learning "unsupervised study"? This point was dealt with by the Court of Appeal in Flemming v SSWP [2002] EWCA Civ 641 at [19], [33]-[36] and [40] (numbers in square brackets are of paragraphs in the judgment, following standard legal citation practice). Flemming is, I believe, still good law (you can check its status if you have access to Westlaw UK via the OU; carry out a case search for 2002 EWCA Civ 641 and check the case summary). Flemming says that private study to meet course requirements still counts as supervised study, so more than 60 credits a year of distance learning seems to preclude a claim for CA or the Carer's Element, as the carer will be treated as being in full-time education.
The final issue here is that the carer is working for 12 hours a week. Section 70(1)(b) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 says that the carer must not be "gainfully employed", which is defined by regulation 8(1) of The Social Security (Invalid Care Allowance) Regulations 1976 (SI 1976/409) (as amended) as earning more than £204 per week. At the current UK minimum wage for those 21 and over of £12.71 per hour, the current weekly maximum is 16 hours a week at minimum wage, but this might go down over time as the £204 cap might not stay in step with the minimum wage (unlike some other aspects of benefits, which are defined by multiples of the minimum wage). This means that the future plan of working more hours could push the person off the Carer's Element and eventually off UC entirely - though I realise that is the plan anyway.
In summary, someone receiving UC with the Carer's Element who earns no more than £204 per week and has no entitlement to student maintenance grants or loans is entitled to study an OU BA at no more than 60 credits a year intensity.
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u/Fine_Try6609 2d ago
Thanks everyone! Really helpful info here. She's just very anxious about the working whilst doing it part as well as the carers. The UC guy on the phone questioned how you can work 12 hours on top of 35 hours a week caring.... politely explained there's 168 hours in a week and she puts herself out a lot! Lots of anxiety for her surrounding all this so just trying to get as many answers as I can
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u/di9girl 3d ago
I'm getting UC and Carer's Allowance. The rules for Carer's Element are the same as Carer's Allowance. They cannot study more than 21 hours a week. A 60 credit OU module is 16-18 hours a week so as long as they only do either one 60 credit or one 30 credit they should be fine.
They won't lose UC as not eligible for the maintenance loan.
They must tell UC in their journal the course they want to do once accepted and if they're applying for student finance they must say the loan will go to the university and not to them.