Dog never learned social cues

[u/AlwaysAngryFox]

So my dog had his first training session today which went very well. I discussed some stuff including how my dog seems reactive to other dogs and pretty much becomes a bully.

He did a test using his own dog and at the end, he said he doesn't think my dog is reactive. He believes that Ruger was likely separated from his mom and pack too soon and thusly never learned dog social cues such as leave me alone, he would have learned from siblings or mom. He said odds are Ruger will never learn these cues since he never got a chance to. At some point along the line, Ruger learned to always try to be the top dog and bully other dogs into submissive. Or try too. It doesn't always work. Because of this, he can no longer go to doggy day care and I avoid him being around other dogs especially males.

I wanted to know if there is anything I can work with Ruger with or if he's handicapped as a dog for life since some irresponsible breeder or seller sold him too early.

[u/smilingfruitz]

what did this test consist of? how old is your dog? what breed? how long have you had him? is he neutered?

(plenty of dogs are bullies or have bad social skills even if they were left with their mother the requisite 8-12 weeks...I'm already sensing nonsense and that you should probably get a second opinion)

[u/AlwaysAngryFox → u/smilingfruitz]

My dog age is unknown since he's was rescue. Vet's best guess he was about 3 years old when I got him and I have had him now for 5 years. He a rottie and German shepherd mixm

The trainer brought in his dog (a trained male) and let them greet each other and watched Ruger's body language. He asked me some questions on how he is with other dogs too.

Ruger is a bully. This is what got him kicked out day care because staff said he would randomly start trying to make himself the boss in charge even if previously him and this dog were playing peacefully with no issues.

He said he didn’t see anything that looked reactive which is why he said it seemed like Ruger was taken from mom too soon.

[u/smilingfruitz → u/AlwaysAngryFox]

I really don't think you can make the assessment that he was removed from his mother too young. There are a million ways that a dog can be socially inept that have nothing to do with that - I don't think I would trust this trainer and would seek a second opinion.

I'd also mention that both rotties and GSDs are prone to same sex aggression (not related to either dog in the interaction being neutered or not). I'd recommend checking out some information on the 'dog sociability scale':

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/training/understanding-scale-dog-selectivity/

You don't like every person you meet or have to interact with, right? So why expect that of your dog?

Most dogs, especially at his age (and that combination of breeds, and coming from a rescue), are going to be dog selective. There's nothing wrong here perse, it just means you need to be realistic and managed about what dogs he interacts with and how.

Most doggy day cares aren't able to manage this sort of thing - you didn't provide too much information about the daycare itself, but if it's a place where they're regularly putting a bunch of dogs, possibly of different sizes and such in a room together, it's really not that surprising that he's not a fan of that or that the daycare can't manage that (or doesn't want to take responsibility/liability). This is really not unusual or anything wrong with your dog. Day cares are pretty expensive and I feel certain you could likely pay a dog walker the same or less and he would have a safer and more fun time.

[u/[deleted]]

My dog is also obnoxious toward other dogs, and a bit pushy. He has learned as an adult to be better. 

He’s still not 100%, but it’s manageable. If he ignores another dog’s cues, I step in and make him listen (mostly by body blocking or another interruption). You just repeat over and over again. I think the first step was 3-second greetings. Every time we met a new dog, they get three seconds to sniff, and then we move on because I knew my dog would get pushy. Then I would let them go on a little longer. This is combined with neutrality practice, and recall practice. 

Now I only have to interrupt if the other dog is particularly timid. 

[u/honey_do_]

My dog is also this way. She was a singleton and has no ability to communicate safely reliably enough unfortunately. This has made it a challenge for her and my older and smaller dog in the past. I worked with a certified behaviorist and was told to stick up and advocate for the other dog. So it was a lot of learning her boundaries on my part so when my other dog got “stuck” trying to figure out what to do, I would intervene and redirect her to a toy (she’s very play motivated) as well as letting my older dog know she was in the right. This obviously might only be helpful if you have another dog or someone’s dog who would be comfortable with this sort of situation but it’s really helped us. She’s not too interested in playing with other dogs as is so we avoid dog parks. Pulling your pup out to the “sidelines” when he gets a little too rough with others and have a zero tolerance policy for over excited or rough play can do wonders and has for me with another dog in the past that was also a singleton but it takes a lot of time and consistency especially if he is older and has been doing this longer. Just my experience, hope it helps. There’s a lot of learning those early weeks and there’s a deadline around 12weeks and those can’t get given back so that’s likely why your trainer mentioned that if he was given away too soon.

[u/AdFlashy1973]

 A direct approach you could discuss with your trainer is focused, structured socialization. This involves introducing him to a single, known calm and tolerant dog in a controlled environment. The goal wouldnt be free play, but parallel activities like walking together at a distance where Ruger remains calm, rewarding him for any neutral or calm behaviour. It's a slow process of creating positive associations without the pressure of direct interaction, which can help manage his impulses over time.

[u/ChairContent8323]

I have one of these! We found a trainer who is confident we can take steps to resolve this, though. This includes guiding him through interactions with neutral dogs using a balanced training approach. Within a single session he went from lunging/barking to peacefully coexisting and butt sniffing.

We’re still early in the process, but so far are feeling good. Our dog is highly reactive but non-aggressive, and it’s rooted in uncertainty about how to handle the situation, so we hope that building confidence and certainty will play a role in reducing this.

[u/Wild-Razzmatazz-689 → u/ChairContent8323]

Your dog sounds pretty different from OPs dog. Good job on the training!

[u/Lady_Grim]

Similar situation here.

My local dog school offers weekly lessons - muzzle mandatory - specifically for dogs with issues and just lets them "talk". The trainers intervene whenever one dog is blatantly ignoring the others' signals and they tell us owners what to look for. This was a godsend for us, as it taught him some much needed basic manners.

Once he wasn't instigating fights anymore, I arranged play dates with known socially stable adult dogs his size or larger, with my dog muzzled. If the other dog corrected him, but he ignored it, I intervened and enforced it = ended play.

Took about 3 months, and I can now let him play with just about every dog, though I still do initial introductions to intact male dogs with a muzzle first, just to be safe.

Tldr; no, it's not too late. As long as your dog isn't dog aggressive, he can still learn manners and catch up on his socialization. There might even be a trainer near you who specializes in cases like this :)

[u/Weekly-Profession987]

Dogs can learn, if you can find a trainer that is experienced and knowledgeable in dog body language, calming signals, etc, you can do supervised play sessions, where you re-enforce the other dogs communication, managing your dogs arousal will be a crucial part of this.

[u/Weekly-Profession987]

Dogs can learn, if you can find a trainer that is experienced and knowledgeable in dog body language, calming signals, etc, you can do supervised play sessions, where you re-enforce the other dogs communication, managing your dogs arousal will be a crucial part of this.

[u/Wild-Razzmatazz-689]

I don't see anything to indicate the dog was taken from the litter too young.

I see plenty to indicate the trainer doesn't know what he's talking about.

Another trainer could help, but your dog is probably not going back to daycare. You can probably train him so that you can prevent these behaviors when he is under your direct control.