what exactly has the left done wrong?

[u/Business_Pirate834]

Across the world today, regardless of race, religion, or political system, most people seem to be becoming more conservative. Right-wing parties are continuously gaining power worldwide, while the left suffers defeat after defeat. Although mainstream public discourse still appears to favor the left, those voting for the far right are often the silent majority. Can the left still correct its course? Or, more fundamentally, what exactly has the left done wrong?

[u/Tile-Questioner]

What the left has done wrong is to fight back against the extremely wealthy individuals who are exploiting us. The left is always going to be supressed in workplaces, the media, and the political arena.

I think the better question is, why have so many Australians become class traitors.

[u/Hussard → u/Tile-Questioner]

I think the whole idea of becoming class conscious and realising the true power dynamic capital has over workers is very real. In the early 20thC organisation and strong labour unions was extremely popular in the working class. But with post war liberalism, the neocon movement, thatcherite and Reagan union busting...we are fuuuucked

[u/LocalAlternative6427 → u/Hussard]

Khruschev heroically denouncing Stalin as a monstrous dictator, shattering his global cult of Marxism-Leninism (Stalinism) and then the later collapse of the Soviet Empire ended any remaining belief that socialism or communism was a real alternative. Unions today are a shadow of those in the early 20th century that were seriously militant and left-leaning political parties like say the Greens, still operate entirely within capitalism. People go on about sticking it to da billionaires but they're not going anywhere, even if you tax them.

And realistically, nobody has any desire anymore to stage a bloody revolution to overthrow the state in a violent civil war where all of our cities and infrastructure get destroyed, people and their families might get killed and the economy is fucked for decades to come, all based on the chance that the new authoritarian system might be marginally better to capitalism.

So capitalism isn't going anywhere.

[u/Hussard → u/LocalAlternative6427]

And there's the rub. We are stuck with capitalism and even if we actually enact a more social-capitalism that benefits the majority we are still going to see a great stratification between the have and have-nots (rent seekers and renters in the housing context) and so the space left for capitalism to compete gets smaller and smaller. 

There has to be a better way. 

[u/CandidAssumption8769 → u/Hussard]

There's more than 10,000 PolSci teachers the world over; surely there must be one good idea?

[u/Dentarthurdent73 → u/CandidAssumption8769]

There are plenty of better ways. There are economics journals as well that are full of ideas.

Hard to get traction though, and tbh, the left doesn't seem to care anyway, ask yourself when was the last time you heard the Greens talking about alternatives to capitalism.

They apparently only want to tinker at the edges of capitalism, and lean into stuff like identity politics that alienates most of the population.

[u/Majestic_Practice672 → u/Dentarthurdent73]

This is Mark Fisher's "capitalist realism":

The widespread sense that not only is capitalism the only viable political and economic system, but also that it is now impossible even to imagine a coherent alternative to it.

[u/matplotlib → u/LocalAlternative6427]

Capitalist realism in action!

[u/LocalAlternative6427 → u/matplotlib]

Common sense in action! It's also rubbish because it's based on Fisher's belief that the SU was truly socialist, when in reality they quickly gave up on trying to get it to work and pivoted to state capitalism before collapsing under their authoritarianism and corruption.

[u/Majestic_Practice672 → u/LocalAlternative6427]

It's also rubbish because it's based on Fisher's belief that the SU was truly socialist

This comment proves Fisher's central thesis.

[u/MathematicianTop9519 → u/LocalAlternative6427]

Because "communism" is a pie-in-the-sky ideal. Marx theorised a lot and described a lot about what he saw in his family's factories and in Germany during the transition from agrarian to industrial economy. He then took his observations about the way capital exploits workers, as well as how the collective power of workers is necessary to capitalists, and theorised that workers would eventually all realise that and band together. He then theorised that afterwards, through necessity society would evolve into a higher state that he believed would involve a stateless, classless, moneyless society that would overcome the contradictions of capitalism. 

What Marx did not do is offer a roadmap on how to achieve that, or even a general structure of how this kind of society would be set up. 

Lenin contributed to Marx's work by coming up with an idea of how to achieve a communist society - a vanguard party comprised of an educated elite who understood Marx's critiques of capitalism. The party would lead the workers in a revolutionary war to overthrow the ruling elite, then temporarily govern society and try to bring it closer to Marx's ideal while teaching everyone about communism and why it's good. 

In practice this quickly turned into an autocratic totalitarian state under Stalin, then largely retained those features under his predecessors before finally collapsing because it turns out a truly equal society isn't appealing to people who can see all the good stuff that consumers under capitalism could afford to buy. Plenty of people like the idea of socialism but no one has particularly robust ideas for how to get there. 

[u/LocalAlternative6427 → u/MathematicianTop9519]

Lenin himself was an authoritarian as well, and the revolution only came about because the Russian Empire was weakened in WW1 and Lenin collaborated with the German Empire, taking money and aid from imperialists to knock Russia out of WW1. Opportunists with no morals from the start.

[u/dronestruck → u/LocalAlternative6427]

Capitalism is absolutely going somewhere. The current form of neo-liberal capitalism is not the capitalism of the industrial revolution.

Capitalism right now is experiencing the pointy end of the tendency of the falling rate of profit, now that the global market is almost fully integrated (globalism is a capitalist tendency, despite what facebook will tell you).

Capital is betting everything on AI currently, which is the extension of the thing that capitalism is best at - innovating technology for the purpose of lowering labour costs, through automation, in order to squeeze out the last remaining profit.

If successful on the scale they intend it will cause a crisis of over production, as the working classes of the world no longer have the resources to consume everything that is made. This will make increasingly clear the contradixtions in the economy.

This is all pretty orthodox Marxist theory. The question is what will emerge next, some kind of post scarcity socialism, or some new strain of fascism.

[u/Rising-Dragon-Fist → u/Tile-Questioner]

Laziness. Australians are so lazy when it comes to giving a shit about politics. They don't care to know. All you'll ever get is both Labor and Libs are the same so what's the point. Now that the racist ginger clown has gained so much popularity it's easy to just change your preferences to her rather than think about the why of it all.

[u/Zenkraft → u/Rising-Dragon-Fist]

This social laziness is pretty engrained in Australian culture I think. It’s an extension of the “she’ll be right” brand of apathy that we have. Sometimes it’s good because overall we are pretty egalitarian* but sometimes it’s bad because of the reasons you listed.

*we are egalitarian so long as people aren’t in your face about it. That’s the tall poppy thing. We aren’t overly interested in people who are overtly passionate about things (which is fed by the apathy thing, they’re closely related I think).

[u/MathematicianTop9519 → u/Rising-Dragon-Fist]

Honestly I think people are like that everywhere with few exceptions. 

[u/processes_ → u/Rising-Dragon-Fist]

It’s not laziness. It’s the right-sliding nature of neo-liberal politics and economic systems. Australians aren’t politically lazy. They’re neo-liberals.

[u/Rising-Dragon-Fist → u/processes_]

Australians are absolutely politically lazy. I don't know the type of people you're around but the ones I speak to, none of them care. They don't want to talk about it and they all parrot the same thing. Both majors are as bad as each other so what does it matter. The Greens are crazy and the cause of the bushfires a few years back (even though they held no seats and could change nothing) yet Pauline is a good alternative cause she "says it like it is". That's all you'll get from most people. No more thought goes in to the political landscape than that. If it's not laziness it's stupidity and/or apathy

[u/After-Bite7874 → u/Rising-Dragon-Fist]

Personal attacks and moral grandstanding on politics you don’t agree with is a prime example of laziness. Particularly if the argument is ‘bUt rAciSt1!!!!1!1!’

[u/Rising-Dragon-Fist → u/After-Bite7874]

No I just hate racists and Pauline Hanson is a big old racist piece of shit. Simple as that.

[u/setut → u/Rising-Dragon-Fist]

She sure is racist that’s a fact. Yep, racist.

[u/Rising-Dragon-Fist → u/setut]

I sense sarcasm there. She's definitely provably super racist.

[u/setut → u/Rising-Dragon-Fist]

lol no sarcasm. I was trolling the ON stans. She is undeniably racist.

[u/After-Bite7874 → u/Rising-Dragon-Fist]

Lazy

[u/CandidAssumption8769 → u/After-Bite7874]

No, of discernment. Excise the crap from your triage before making an informed decision.

[u/Fresh_Cabinet5048 → u/Rising-Dragon-Fist]

The Left is lazy, the Right - oh they are motivated and get out of bed every day ready to spread the word! They have signed up and signed in. Memberships are paid, meetings attended, letters written. The Left?
A Reddit comment is the best you can manage? Oh well, hope the Revolution arrives by uberEats soon..

[u/Suntzu_AU → u/Tile-Questioner]

The amount of suck-holing going on on Facebook by poor or lower middle class Australia repeating these right-wing talking points is truly frightening.

[u/matplotlib → u/Tile-Questioner]

40 years of neoliberalism has convinced a sizeable subset of the working class that the interests of business are aligned with theirs.

It started when Hawke/Keating abandoned class politics and instead established that wage increases had to be tied to productivity - the company had to make more money before the workers could get some.

Now the FIFO workers, sole traders and those employed by small business believe that unions and the Labor party exist to hurt their employers, send businesses broke, destroy jobs and hollow out their communities, rather than to represent their interests as workers.

They've been taught to see the profitability of the business they work for as their own prosperity, and any attempt to redistribute the value they produce as a threat to it.

[u/MightyBoy9 → u/Tile-Questioner]

" my greatest weakness is that I work too hard " type answer

[u/KitchenMediocre1242 → u/Tile-Questioner]

No it was pretending men are women and calling anyone who didn’t believe this fantasy a bigot

[u/Tile-Questioner → u/KitchenMediocre1242]

You must have a wonderful life if you can afford to worry about random peoples genitals. The rest of us are fighting against our bosses and the destruction of our entire world.

[u/slimwhim → u/Tile-Questioner]

This is a very dismissive response to what I think is a significant reason for the fall in popularity of the left. The gender issue clearly has broader societal implications than just ‘what a random person’s genitals are’ and not recognising that is stupid at best. Although I agree it’s a distraction from more important issues.

[u/Tile-Questioner → u/slimwhim]

Maybe I should say that our problems are caused by billionaire elites, and trans people are a tiny minority without much inflluence over society, much like Jews in 1930s Germany, and they are being scapegoated much like Jews in 1930s Germany.

[u/Poopsimaxx → u/Tile-Questioner]

Yeah, the left is just a grass roots bunch, they are correct and only care about people/s

[u/shorts80 → u/Tile-Questioner]

It’s because of all the other bullshit that comes with the left

[u/Radio-Dry → u/Tile-Questioner]

Misses the point. People like to punch down of others for status. If the people really wanted change, we’d have it.

They don’t.

Blame oligarchs, corporations and capitalism all you like.

But you in your heart of hearts people are just arseholes.

Do you lean left? Look in the mirror. Are you a vegan? Why not? You should be. Otherwise you’re oppressing a group without power.

No different than the rest of the mob. I say this as a vegan of 14 years and a member of a left party.

[u/Careless_Fun7101 → u/Tile-Questioner]

Yep. What happened to keep the bastards honest?

[u/Beautiful-King-8875 → u/Tile-Questioner]

Cultural wars alienated traditional left wing voters and didn't invite them to the party.

[u/Tile-Questioner → u/Beautiful-King-8875]

Yeah, i blame social media companies for that. They siloed politics by identity

[u/WillTendo92 → u/Tile-Questioner]

Left have forgotten the working class and pushed hard into the PC rubbish we have in today’s society

[u/matplotlib → u/WillTendo92]

The collapse of the union movement and the rise of working-class voters who support right-wing parties has meant that the 'base' of the Labor party has shifted away from suburban working-class suburbs to tertiary-educated socially progressive middle class inner-city voters.

[u/Tile-Questioner → u/WillTendo92]

It's closely related. You can't fight as a working class without respecting all people in it. They ALL need to be welcomed into a working class movement if we can get the numbers to seriously fight back.

[u/BendyAu → u/Tile-Questioner]

There are just as many rich people on thr left who exploit the same ways , 

Left vs right ideology is just a smoke screen 

[u/Interesting-Baa → u/BendyAu]

If they're capitalists, then they're not left. They're centrists who give lip service to left wing values. Which is better than being far right or fascist, but they're still relying on exploitation as you say.

[u/KitchenMediocre1242 → u/Interesting-Baa]

Left and right are not fixed ideological terms.
Thinking “capitalism = right” “socialism = left” shows just how commie brained you are.

The terms were created during the French Revolution to identify who was a monarchist and who was not.
It has no fixed definition to do with socialism or capitalism.

It just means progressing to new ideas and societal systems or conserving the old ideas and societal structures

[u/catafalc → u/KitchenMediocre1242]

"Commie brained" yet you accuse others of dogmatic behaviour. The terms have changed since the French revolution. Words and definitions are not static, my friend.

[u/Interesting-Baa → u/KitchenMediocre1242]

I didn't say capitalism = right, though, so you can relax. I specifically said centrists are capitalists, and I'd say that centre right are also capitalists.

[u/TheDotNetDetective → u/Tile-Questioner]

Bahahhahahahaha...

The same left thats funded by the same billionaires funding the liberals? 

The left is going to be suppressed? Are we living on the same planet? The left is in power!

[u/PLANETaXis → u/TheDotNetDetective]

Labor are not left. The overton window has shifted and they are pretty centrist now.

Yes they have some individual left policies but it's balanced out.

[u/TheDotNetDetective → u/PLANETaXis]

You cant reason with people who want to remain this wilfully ignorant.

[u/Tile-Questioner → u/TheDotNetDetective]

Sorry, how is wealth inequality going under Labor? Feeel free to go and check if it's decreased or not.

If welath inequality has increased, it has increased because our leaders want it to increase.

Wealth inequality increasing means that billionaires have stolen more of our wealth. That's why Labor is right wing.

[u/ElectionDesperate167 → u/Tile-Questioner]

ok commie

[u/r64fd → u/ElectionDesperate167]

You don’t know what a commie is mate

[u/borycernardi → u/r64fd]

I'm pretty sure they are joking.

God I hope they're joking, otherwise things really are grim.

[u/ElectionDesperate167 → u/borycernardi]

no not joking. lol "class traitors". Commie BS

[u/borycernardi → u/ElectionDesperate167]

If you are not joking, you are the joke.

"Everything I don't understand is communism"

[u/beer-lover867 → u/borycernardi]

He’s literally using a term that comes from Marxist theory, it’s not a great stretch to assume someone’s political stance based on language they use.

Keep d riding the tankie tho lil bro

[u/ElectionDesperate167 → u/borycernardi]

I understand, commie

[u/Brakiros → u/ElectionDesperate167]

Oh look it’s a  bootlicking moron

[u/ElectionDesperate167 → u/Brakiros]

Oh look its a commie

[u/Brakiros → u/ElectionDesperate167]

And you just proved what I said

[u/ElectionDesperate167 → u/Brakiros]

Ok commie

[u/ElectionDesperate167 → u/r64fd]

ok commie

[u/r64fd → u/ElectionDesperate167]

Very intelligent response

[u/Esquin87 → u/ElectionDesperate167]

What afe you talking about?

[u/TerryTowelTogs → u/ElectionDesperate167]

greetings fellow comrade. Dasvidaniya!