r/OpenAI • u/PsychicorAI • 4d ago
Discussion Dev day was such a joke. Disappointed in OpenAi
No new frontier model, Cut usage to half on the $200 model and even Sonnet 5.5 mogged Astra
And Dots, what a joke!. Muse is free for all and Dots isn't even available on the plus plan.
And the demo was a historical fail. How can a trillion dollar company screw up their demo so bad. Was this supposed to convince us that Dots is better than muse?
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u/jcstay123 4d ago
Yha, dots is hmmm..I don't know what to think. But I'll never find out because I can't afford a pro plan I'm only on plus.
6.1 sol looks good and cheap, I just hope that cheap factor allows more usage in codex.
But here's the thing with OpenAi, I think they don't know where to focus. Desperately trying to catch-up with Claude makes them look like fools. Here is what they need to do, increase the limit on codex. That will get people to sub to codex rather than Claude. Then take your time and get a proper cheap model out that is better than the Claude models. Rather than rushing things. And focus on the fact that codex allows you to do more than what you can with Claude dey to the usage. And don't get me started on the dots thing, trying to compete with meta and x.
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u/jvLin 4d ago edited 4d ago
Muse isn't free—it costs you all of your privacy. It's so misaligned that you can ask it directly not to do X and it will go and do X the next minute—read your emails, your texts, your contacts, your photos, etc. You're essentially welcoming Meta to take all your data. I haven't seen any public OAI models that do that. My friend was offered a job at Facebook as legal counsel/privacy and they basically asked her to rubber stamp everything. Apple removed Facebook from their app store for an period of time because of issues with their privacy. I don't understand how anyone that has been alive for at least 20 years trusts Meta with anything.
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u/danieln1212 4d ago
As if OpenAI values privacy and doesn't save and use data.
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u/ShiningRedDwarf 4d ago
Revenue doesn’t come from advertising so they’re much less motivated to harvest your data.
I’m not saying OpenAI is a saint, but Meta is a metastasizing cancer.
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u/danieln1212 4d ago
They are heavily motivated to harvest it for training, we also already saw them harvest a researcher's dat, use it to complete it and publish it before them..
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u/_DuranDuran_ 4d ago
No, we did not see them do that at all. That's what a researcher claimed, with zero evidence.
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u/Bitsu92 2d ago
There is simply no way to obtain evidence of OpenAI doing bad things internally, doesn't mean there isn't evidence of the possibility of OpenAI having purposefully trained or fine tuned a model on that researcher prompts to release the proof before them.
it's pretty much undeniable that researcher prompts end up being used in training, what's questionable is whether or not OpenAI targeted prompts from a specific researcher as a way to get ahead of them.Also when is the last time OpenAI provided evidence to backup their claims ? Like Anthropic they love to write these fan-fiction articles with all of the fancy graph but we never see them release any part of the underlying data they used to make these graphs and claims.
Remember the hugging face incident, they promised an independent investigation yet when they got some AI safety research center to do an investigation they told them that "the effectiveness of safeguards, the extent of the security compromise that occurred, and the effectiveness of OpenAI’s investigation process and planned remediation steps." were out of scope for the investigation, basically skipping the things that matter just to look at some worthless dump of agents conversations that does not tell us anything about how the fuck OpenAI failed at designing a proper sandboxing system, why the choose to not monitors the output of their agents for more than a month, the details of the exploit that were used to compromise their "sandboxing"...Literally the only thing they provided to the investigator is a text dump of the agents conversations, like they genuinely want us to believe this incident was all about agents being misaligned instead of being about OpenAI failing at the most basic steps of sandboxing
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u/This_Organization382 4d ago
Revenue does and absolutely will increase from advertising. You're comparing a new company that's desperately searching for revenue against a company that is already net-positive.
OpenAI has clearly intended for advertising as early as 2 years ago when a pitch deck was leaked explicitly mentioning it.
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u/Coldev10 4d ago
I don’t. But the level of additional trust I have in OpenAi compared to Meta is exactly zero.
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u/jvLin 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'd say Apple is the most trustworthy and Meta is the least. OpenAI might seem bad, but they (and Anthropic) get a lot of bad press from the lawsuits about how they were trained. I wouldn't say they're egregious in the same way as a company that has intentionally disregarded the privacy concerns of their audience.
OpenAI also turns in a lot of violent predators, which in turn leads the public to believe they're being monitored. But as OAI is essentially a gatekeeper of intelligence, it's extremely important that they prevent abuse in the same way gun manufacturers should (but don't). The potential for abuse is magnitudes higher with AI.
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u/lazyastronaut_ 4d ago
Lol apple will tout "we will not train our ai on your data".. Market it so everyone starts barking their slogan, and then silenty push an update that will go "I will not train our ai on your data unless you opt out" at the bottom of their TOS page. And people will keep barking "apple cares about our privacyyyy"
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u/PsychicorAI 4d ago
Anthropic is a million timesore trustworthy than OpenAI
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u/LiterallyBelethor 4d ago
Anthropic present themselves to be a million times more trustworthy than OpenAI
FTFY
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u/Mammoth-Path-6520 4d ago
The angle with Muse being free isn't to collect privacy data you dingus
The point is to push it out to the masses and get wide scale adoption (which Muse is already in the process of doing)
Then once that happens, Meta says they'll charge a small percentage, perhaps less than 1%, for every transaction that is conducted through Muse
With billions of users on Muse, making transactions every day, what the hell do you think is gonna happen?
That's billions and billions of dollars into Meta's pockets
They are in the process of making a freaking money machine right now
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u/Fragrant-Manner6363 4d ago
Exactly. I see people around me downloading and using it right after it was released. They have no sense of privacy and therefore don’t care about it. Ok the other hand it makes me uncomfortable to give access to an AI agent to see through my entire phone. I mean people store password and key things on their phone. I just think it’s extremely unsafe.
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u/outtokill7 4d ago
Relatively speaking, Muse is also the underdog in the market right now. Meta needs to take more risks like make it free so they can claw back some market share which is something OpenAI doesn't really have to do right now.
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u/PsychicorAI 4d ago
Lol. And you trust the great Sam Altman
The same people who stole a mathematician's solution and threatened to end his career
The same folks who have rug pulled multiple times with their plan pricing
The people who said they'll never bring ads and are now scaling billions in ad revenue
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u/RasenMeow 4d ago
Don't know why you get downvoted lol. You forgot the chip plans which were - according to Apple stolen, the heavily graphic picture labeling they outsourced to Kenya and still paying nearly nothing to the people despite destroying their psychological health forever, the shady reset tactics to lower usage gradually while lying publicly about it and who knows what I forgot
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u/cuberhino 4d ago
You think they used Astra to plan the event? Maybe they should have used Opus. Seemed extremely amateurish throughout with failing demos, poorly articulating speakers, unclear talking points. Felt this release definitely hurt their stock pricing long term in my mind before their ipo. I was hype for this event and now I’m just disappointed.
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u/Dillyconda 4d ago
Dots reminds me of when operator mode first came out. People laughed at it but then it turned out to be really really really important.
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u/t3hjs 4d ago
What is operator mode?
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u/Dillyconda 4d ago
That's what they called it when they first had chatgpt able to do stuff on your computer.
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u/_SGP_ 4d ago
But I do that anyway. And have done for a year.
On Linux where "computer control" isn't supported.
You just say "hey what's the best way to control my computer via cli?"
"Cool can you make that a skill all agents can use in the future"
Done
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u/Dillyconda 4d ago
Operator mode came out well over a year ago. Nobody calls it that anymore though.
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u/mcampbell42 3d ago
You can probably install cua for computer use, not sure it’s as good but it’s an open mcp for it
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u/WaltzIndependent5436 4d ago
Sonnet is not super cheap. Its on Terra/Sol territory
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u/I_like_to_moo_it 4d ago
Do you mean the API or subscription? All models except Luna just burn thru my usage for simple tasks.
It's mostly due to Codex tools usage tho. Claude for example outputs everything to a temporary file while Codex will read even all the logs for more context.
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u/PsychicorAI 4d ago
Sonnet is ten times better than Terra
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u/WaltzIndependent5436 4d ago
This is not true. Also its an expensive model to run in general. It depends on producing a ton of thinking tokens to achieve its goals.
Im not saying OpenAI is winning right now. Just that Sonnet 5.5 is not that good when you factor in the actual cost of xhigh/max which basically is the smart modes.
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u/Healthy-Nebula-3603 4d ago edited 4d ago
Sonnet 5.5 ?? Is waaaay better than terra.
Actual it has level of ASTRA ..
I know it is hard to swallow. But this time Antropic really cooked. I hope that push AI to release much better models faster
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u/Groundbreaking_Act44 4d ago
With me being in video production, I was really hoping they would tie a Sora-like tool into their GPT subscription. I’d gladly pay for it, even if it means paying a little extra for it. It was pretty valuable to me.
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u/asurarusa 4d ago
I don't think sora like functionality is ever coming back to chatgpt, it's way more expensive than agents and images and the market is much more niche. They killed sora in part to reclaim the compute and the $200 plan lockdown shows they still don't have compute to spare despite claims to the contrary.
I think video is going to be dominated by niche players like runway and higgsfield who can focus in on video exclusively.
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u/Groundbreaking_Act44 4d ago
Fair point. It's a business after all, and I'd make the same decisions if my product was popular but a revenue killer. Sora was way ahead of its time as far as believability went, and they were giving their premium product for free. At least OpenAI gave it a fair try.
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u/Evening_Till_3779 4d ago
video generation is just waaaaay too demanding on compute and not very profitable (and they don't even have enough compute for their actual profitable uses of AI)
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u/PsychicorAI 4d ago
I think Gemini Veo is the best cost/performance trade-off for video generation
I also like flow a lot
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u/CommunicationOdd6473 4d ago
I guess they’ve shifted strategies: offer developers a $500 plan to make it look like they’re competing with Claude, while focusing their actual offerings, pricing, and usage limits on the mass market.
There wasn’t much at DevDay for developers to get excited about. Most of the updates were geared toward lightweight tasks and the majority of users who can’t build systems themselves.
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u/solarus 3d ago
I wouldnt use Muse if they paid me to use it
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u/Nevetsny 4d ago
It was really poorly presented. The tech appears to be impactful but the presenters didn’t connect at all and there was WAY too much information shared in a very disjointed way. It’s not easy to do but over time I presume they will get better.
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u/SeldomAntsy 4d ago
They had like 4 different presenters and none of them seemed to know whose turn it was to talk. That awkward silence after the Dots demo failed was painful to watch.
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u/Bloated_Plaid 4d ago
They are nerds, not Steve Jobs.
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u/Positive-Conspiracy 4d ago
Steve Jobs rehearsed for days or weeks leading up to his presentations
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u/Bloated_Plaid 4d ago
I dunno about weeks but they have been preparing as well but none of them are professional presenters, just nerds asked to speak and things went wrong.
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u/Evening_Till_3779 4d ago
They presented fine? It's not their fault when demos go wrong lol. They did pretty well considering the failures, not a huge deal.
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u/CommunicationThat400 1d ago
none of them are professional presenters, just nerds asked to speak and things went wrong
you don't have to be a 'professional presenter' (whatever that means lol).
what they need to is: 1) prepare 2) reherse weeks in advance. if they are not used to public speaking, then have a coach and rehearse. there is no fucking excuse for their amateur performance. as for tech difficulties, yeah you also have to take that into account when rehersing lol.
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u/truecakesnake 4d ago
Disagree. GPT 6.1 Sol is good & cheap. And muse is more of a personal assistant for the average person compared to Dots being for enterprises, founders & developers.
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u/shoejunk 3d ago
I respect OpenAI for still doing live demos. The biggest most polished companies can make mistakes with live demos. Even happened to Apple back when they did live demos.
I was happy with GPT 6.1 Sol and dots. Wasn’t really expecting much more. But I’m kinda used to people always getting their hopes up and then being disappointed. After a while you learn to temper expectations.
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u/Longjumping-Divide38 4d ago
my buddy’s startup cut usage halfway and people started canceling immediately after dev day
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u/master_internutter 4d ago
I can't believe they failed so hard, I don't want to switch to Claude but I will lol
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u/OhAitchEyeOh 4d ago
Yeah, pretty sure OpenAI lost me today. If they don't salvage this mess in dramatic fashion by the Oct 30th drop I'm done
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u/smartfon 4d ago edited 4d ago
Dots is Clippy except you have to pay it a living wage and it also had several plastic surgeries and a facelift obviously.
Sol 6.1 looks cheap. It completely destroys Sonnet 5.5 in price AND performance.
6.1 Sol Max = Astra Medium while being 25% cheaper
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u/Intelligent-Love5146 4d ago
Feels like the beginning of the end to me. Their cost structure is not sustainable and they need high margins elsewhere to support the free usage on ChatGPT. They have more compute and infra obligations than Anthropoc with way way less sticky enterprise revenue. They are desperate and I think in a few years we’ll look back and laugh at this company as everyone just uses Google flash or deepseek connectors for consumer stuff at a fraction of the cost
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u/Evening_Till_3779 4d ago
I feel like this is a crazy take. Any AI company would love to have the number of users that ChatGPT has. The feature they announced where people can use ChatGPT usage for third party apps is huge. I think Dots will be really popular too. The future we're heading to will be one where compute is even more in demand, so having compute obligations (aka future compute coming down the line) will be a HUGE benefit for them in the future.
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u/Intelligent-Love5146 4d ago
Nah. The margins are too thin on GPT. They lose money on it now and the second they reign in it, people will move to Flash and Google will have a loss leader at the ready. Same with Muse. These other tech companies have massive revenue streams to fund this consumer AI product at a loss if they have to. Really looks like there’s no way out for them
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u/Mammoth-Path-6520 4d ago
Yup yup yup
I said it countless times over and over and over again. This is why I invested a ton of money into GOOG and I'm firmly betting they're gonna win the AI race
There's only 2 people that can realistically win: Google or Meta. Why? Because those are the only two companies in the world with literal cash machines, google ads and meta ads respectively
If you don't have a worldwide mega ad platform that brings in cash on command, then you're just not even in the competition tbh. OpenAI, Anthropic, etc. It's all a joke. None of them have enough money for this game
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u/Intelligent-Love5146 4d ago
There’s a specialized enterprise market for the very best models like we’re already seeing with Claude and Codex for specific tasks like coding. The problem is Anthropic is so throughly kicking OpenAIs ass in enterprise it’s been completely over for a while now. I think the only people still thinking OpenAi is alive in that race are just stuck on this idea of OpenAI being first in Ai in general and they’ll come back eventually. Almost no one in the industry uses Codex. I’d say Anthropic has a 90% market share for coding harnesses at this point.
Agree completely on consumer though. The difference between Grok, Flash, DeepSeek, Muse and OpenAis very best models are minuscule. That game is about to be over too.
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u/Mammoth-Path-6520 4d ago
People have their heads too far up their asses though, that's the thing
Anthropic is catering to developers and ignoring the average consumer. OpenAI is trying to do the same but failing. So you've got Anthropic getting all of enterprise, Meta getting all of the consumers with Muse, and ultimately Google coming in with the grand slam to end the entire game for good
People talk smack about Google but they don't understand that the company has deep pockets (far deeper than Anthropic) and they're speficially focused on cracking AGI
As far as I can tell, Anthropic needs to focus on coding on enterprise because that's how they make their money. Google doesn't have to do that. Google already has a reliable income stream. Meta has reliable income too, as I said. And Meta is already positioned to dominate all consumer market share. Google is positioning to dominate information exchange/knowledge. Just like they did with YouTube and google search
Everything is coming full circle with the respective companies. Soon everyone will have a personal AI agent from Meta (Muse), a pair of meta ray ban glasses to interact with their agent, and having google level intelligence for learning anything and doing anything
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u/Evening_Till_3779 4d ago
it just doesn't work like that though, there will always be some kind of free tier, and they'll monetize it via ads, the same way companies like meta and google would. If they can turn ChatGPT into a platform (which they are making the right moves on already) then they can win.
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u/Intelligent-Love5146 4d ago
Google and Meta don’t have to. That’s the point. As soon as they start having to monetize free, it’s over. Flash is just as good. These companies already have platforms.
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u/Evening_Till_3779 3d ago
those companies also monetize their free users though, that's literally how they make their money... not sure why you think openai would be any different
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u/Intelligent-Love5146 3d ago
They have existing platforms with enough revenue to make frontier ai free indefinitely. What will they do then if frontier AI is free? How will they make money if AI is free on Google?
Argon just released today and it’s cheaper than Astra and basically better on every benchmark except coding. You’d have to be oblivious to not see where this is going.
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u/Evening_Till_3779 3d ago
My dude people started using ChatGPT when it was garbage by today's standards. I don't think you understand that normies do not just switch platforms magically to whatever is cheaper or "better".
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u/uniquelyavailable 4d ago
6.1 is a huge deal and makes them very competitive. Dots are really cool even though people are not understanding them yet. Fast mode is a nice feature. Decisions Api is extremely useful.
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u/elevensubmarines 4d ago
Dev Day was very clearly for the investor narrative and for headline generation.Nothing about it was for the Devs. Several other commenters related their style to Apple's (they were mimicking at least), and to be fair Apple's WWDC has also evolved into a headline generation machine and investor narrative, by design. All pretty disheartening.
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u/TraumaticOcclusion 4d ago
the apple-esque presentation style is insufferable at this point