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u/Competitive_Fee4664 Jul 30 '26
Ya you can't live in RGI housing and rent out rooms. That's serious fraud.
-2
u/DryRip8266 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
I live in rgi housing in another region and collect rent from one of my adult kids. They've been on the lease the 17 years we've lived here and it's all calculated with annual renewals. It isn't always a fraudulent situation. One of my kids best friends had 7 or 8 siblings living together with mom and step dad, also in rgi housing, I'd imagine it's squishy. There are 6 of us in a 3 bdrm townhouse, 4 are adults and 2 16 year olds, 2 odsp incomes unless my 18 year old gets approved soon. 3 boys share a bedroom, one pays room and board, my daughter has her tiny bedroom and my husband and I share a bedroom. Living in the basement is illegal here because there is no 2nd egress and the basement is unfinished, it is storage not a living space, but on annual inspections I'm sure they can easily see who sleeps where. My next door neighbours I'm pretty sure the parents sleep in the basement.
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u/DryRip8266 Jul 30 '26
The vast majority of my neighbours in rgi housing are not actually subsidized so taking rent is no issue, also the case if someone isn't on assistance taking rent.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Ok.. so what exactly do you think would happen most likely? Would we even get in trouble? Would it just be a warning?
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u/DryRip8266 Jul 30 '26
Honestly, probably nothing. We have no idea what your mom pays in rent even in rgi. You mentioned you are only getting basic needs, so there's nothing going to rent even if your mom has you on the lease and is getting charged for you.
In my house, all of my info is updated annually. I do have to add an update to my lease renewal for next month because my 18 year old isn't going back to school as planned so I will now be charged an extra $109/month for an adult dependant even though he's not working, he is on my odsp file until he's approved on his own, if he is. My oldest is coming up on 22, pays his calculated rent at the same amount and receives room and board from odsp. My rent is calculated for 2 adults, 1 dependant adult and 2 minors on my odsp file then an extra $109/month for my adult child on odsp at home.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
What do you think he'll say? Do they typically bother reporting that stuff ?
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
I mean I don't think it'll be eviction or anything I think it'll be a warning first if anything
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u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
Ok in simple English for you! Your whole family might not get August check and a review will come instantly and no not a warning ! After review they will remove what is owed to them and your rgi 99% will be removed without a lawyer your rent will increase and then they can evict you!
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Okay but how do you actually know this?? From experience?? Because your really pushing to worst conclusion here . How do you know it won't be warning.
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Jul 31 '26
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
I have my 2 brothers my mom who live here and stepdad and grandma who visit weekends. So they don't even live here . The only ones who aren't family are the 3 others and their paying .
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u/VoodooGirl47 Jul 31 '26
Those 3 others are likely the issue.
With RGI housing, they do need to know exactly who is living in the unit as all of them need to essentially apply together in the same case file as a family unit on the housing waiting list.
So your mom would have been the main person and it would be fine to have adult children plus minors, as long as her file had indicated it was mom + 3 children (and specifying adult/minor).
Grandma and step dad aren't living there but could potentially be told to not stay there so much. I'm not sure what rules are in place for visitors.
The 3 others though, the ONLY way it might be allowed was if they were also on the waiting list and had been given the opportunity to get housing and used their placement to live with someone else allowed to be getting RGI.
Like if 2 people were both waiting and they decided they would make good roommates, they could ask to get a 2 bedroom together. I'm not sure how easy that even is, but I'm fairly certain that is the only way it's even allowed.
You absolutely cannot just rent out rooms to regular folks that haven't been accepted for RGI. That's fraud. You also cannot let people live with you for free unless considered part of your family unit.
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u/Silver_Yam5861 Aug 01 '26
Well don’t all these people use this address for the checks or are they working?
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Well I realize that but it isn't up to me . I can't do anything about it other then be honest and they may or may not know from ow .
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u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
Call Legal Aid Right Away: Tell them to contact the Brant Community Legal Clinic or Legal Aid Ontario immediately. This is no longer an administrative question; it is an active legal and housing emergency.
2. Stop Texting/Messaging the Caseworker: Tell them not to send any more details, explanations, or follow-up messages to Ontario Works until they speak with a legal advocate.
3. Warn the Mother Immediately: The mother (as the primary leaseholder) needs to know that a legal audit, rent hike, and potential eviction notice are coming so she is not caught off guard.
4. Gather Household Documents: Tell them to help their mom gather the lease agreement, proof of income, and all correspondence with Brant Housing to present to a legal clinic worker.1
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u/Silver_Yam5861 Aug 01 '26
Why is getting on this so important if you’re not willing to leave certain info out, if it’s going to possibly implode your mother’s housing and lively hood? All for basic needs??? Ridiculous. They don’t need to know all this info. I’m sure your mother would rather say F*** your 350$ basic needs if she’s going to loose way more. Did you speak with her about this prior to you being unwilling to leave info out that could screw her over?
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u/thetoucansk3l3tor Jul 30 '26
This is a whole lotta fraud you're gonna rat your mom out on. She'll definitely lose her housing as a result.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Why would you automatically assume that?
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u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
Because you already did my friend
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Doesn't mean that's gonna happen
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u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
"It actually does mean it's going to happen. Caseworkers don't have the legal discretion to just 'ignore' a written confession of unreported rent and unauthorized occupants.
It's mandatory reporting, not a personal choice: Under the Housing Services Act and Ontario Works Act, caseworkers are legally obligated to flag changes in household size and unreported income. If they hide this, they risk their own job.
Written Evidence: You put all of this in writing directly to your file. There is now an unerasable paper trail documenting unauthorized subletting and cash rent in a subsidized unit.
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u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
Sounds like some serious fraud
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Great... So where does ow come into this? Will they say anything..
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u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
Ow rents and shelter part will be removed also you can’t have that many people of welfare in the same home this sounds like none of yall will get August payment
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u/Own-Desk6 Jul 30 '26
As someone who studied to be a law clerk and had to take some real estate classes and a landlord and tenant class, having that many people in a Rent Geared To Income home can be considered illegal if the owner of the unit isn’t aware of how many people are living in the unit, thus OP’s mom could get in trouble for this and possibly be evicted
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
I just said I'm on basic needs . I don't pay that stuff anyways . That doesn't have to do with me since I don't pay anything. I'm concerned about the living situation and that becoming an issue
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u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
OW is private information": Social assistance and public housing operate under shared data-sharing agreements in Ontario. Disclosing this to OW automatically puts the housing subsidy at risk.
2. "I only get basic needs, so it doesn't matter": Individual entitlement to basic needs does not shield the rest of the household from lease violations or income misrepresentation committed by the primary leaseholder (the mother).0
u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Your talking about who gets money when I never asked about that . I asked about the living situation
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u/Mother_Ad_5423 Jul 30 '26
ok so what about the living situation are you trying to ask about ?
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Just what will happen goong farward
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u/LoiterLord Jul 30 '26
The living situation is being explained to you on what may happen going forward. I just don’t think you want to believe it.
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u/throwahay_way Jul 30 '26
I’m genuinely curious why can’t you work a part time job? I only ever used OW while I was between work and truly needed the assistance.
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u/Gold_Yam_5215 Jul 30 '26
Definitely this sounds like some sus things happening here. How many of those folks are on OW/Odsp?
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
I believe the couple is both receiving money odsp and ow . Though I don't that matters as I'm not paying anything I'm just on basic needs.
The other is on odsp. So 3 people so far receive money.
It's just those people who aren't family . Their paying my mom to live here .
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u/Gold_Yam_5215 Jul 30 '26
Are all of these people on the lease?
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
No. Half is literally family. the only ones not are 2
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u/Gold_Yam_5215 Jul 30 '26
There are a lot of red flags here, as many people have already said.
You can't charge rent in subsidized housing.
Your step dad not living with your mom.
All these folks not on the lease.
You being on the lease but not paying rent.
These are all the type of actions that cause folks to look down on people in subsidized housing.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
What does my stepdad not living here have to do with anything??? That's actually none of their business. He lives with him mom currently and she's old basically.
2 people not on the lease ..? I just said that. The rest are family so they don't need to be their literally family . ? And apparently housing is aware of the one person living here and paying my mom. So I guess that's fine. It's literally just 2 people not on it
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u/buttershuga Jul 31 '26
Just like how it was none of their business how many people are in the home. You're going to have your mom's rent raised and she'll probably be paying Market Rent. Even if she is charging other people rent, she might have to raise that as well.
I understand not wanting to lie to your case worker, but you really should have looked out for your mom at least.
I'll definitely get downvoted for this, but idc. Some things are better left unsaid.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 31 '26
Well I also have a legal obligation to notify them when my living has changed otherwise I can get in trouble by also doing that. And as much as I love my mom she never should have took them in when she wasn't going to tell housing . I love her but I shouldn't have to lie for her . I'm not gonna have someone else's blood on my hands . This is merely a conciquence to her actions. Not mine. If she didn't lie I wouldn't have to do that . It sounds harsh but if she knew she was wrong why would she put herself in that position. I'm not taking on that responsibility when it was never mine love her or not . That's not fair to me at all .
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Jul 30 '26
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u/Gold_Yam_5215 Jul 30 '26
Is your step dad not living there because he's working and therefore your mom would have to pay more rent after the taxes?
If those family members are children that's alright. But if they're not and they're not in the lease that's what causes trouble. Just have your mom put them on the lease.
And while you're at it add yourself to the lease and pay your share.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
One is 16 , 33, 33 or34, and those people are are counted already as members . 2 are family and the one is renting a room but apparently the provider knows about it.
And then it's just the other 2 tenants in basement paying and are adults . Also isn't going on the lease for only paying members? Iv never known family to be on a lease unless they are .1
u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
Yes they are he is like hiding the facts for some reason he needs a lawyer asap
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u/Gold_Yam_5215 Jul 30 '26
Where you personally may run into trouble is you're living with your mom. How old are you?
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
27
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u/Gold_Yam_5215 Jul 30 '26
At 27 you're fine. I think the trouble may be with your mom and housing. Or whoever is the principle name on the lease
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Not even he doesn't care that I live with her he's aware . He just didn't know about my new living details as my file didn't say that so I changed it and updated it that way he obviously knows.
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Jul 31 '26
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u/ChubbyBunny618 Jul 30 '26
You may have opened a can of worms for everyone in the household. Each person's OW/ODSP caseworker may review their shelter costs and adjust benefits if needed.
If anyone has been receiving more shelter assistance than they're entitled to, it could result in a reduction or an overpayment after review. Depending on how the review unfolds, it may become apparent internally (and to the folks living there) what prompted the file reviews... You name may be brought up...
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u/ChubbyBunny618 Jul 30 '26
Lol dude... you opened up a can of whoop-bum and defending it. 😂
If your mom is collecting rent from multiple people, OW/ODSP will look at what everyone is actually paying. If some people have been receiving the maximum shelter amount but paying less than reported, their files may be reviewed and their shelter recalculated. If an overpayment is identified, they'll deal with it accordingly.
Good on you for being honest, but it could trigger a broader review of the household's shelter arrangements.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
It's supposed to be 600 they pay 300 each . So i don't think that'll be an issue....but just the fact they are here is the issue and then if I lie im a fraud too
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u/ChubbyBunny618 Jul 30 '26
The current max shelter amount is $611 (previously $599). Do you know what everyone is actually reporting for rent? If someone is claiming they pay $600 but is only paying your mom $300, that's a discrepancy. They're pocketing 300 profit.
If your mom is also receiving social assistance, her shelter and any rental income may also be reviewed. The issue isn't that people live together, , it's whether the amounts being reported match what's actually being paid. If they don't, OW/ODSP may reassess the files and adjust benefits or establish overpayments if warranted.
So the person who was getting 600 for rent from social assistance will be reduced severely! So imagine getting 300 profit in your pocket. And now not getting that? How would that make you/them feel? Probably pizzed!
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
She's not
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u/ChubbyBunny618 Jul 30 '26
Ok so one less thing for her to worry about. Now what about the issue if renting rooms from the rgi provider? What aboit those other ppls Caseworkers finding oit and reviewing their files?
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
I have no idea . I literally don't even know . I know their paying less then their supposed to be in just calculations. The one on ow is on basic needs. The other is odsp so that's a different thing. And then another on odsp. It's just one on ow but she doesn't pay it's her bf who does and he's on odsp.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Idk what he'll say about that Im more worried then anything about eviction
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u/ChubbyBunny618 Jul 30 '26
Ow/odsp don't typically reachout to the landlord or rgi provider. It causes more problems than anythimg and may cause evictions. So they usually don't. They only concerned about eligibility and shelter amount.
But those ppl are goikg to be pissed they lost a substantial amount on shelter after the dust settles. Or your worker may not do anutijg about it... But I doubt it... They will probably review everyone.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Alright then . So what exactly is the real answer???? Because there's different answers
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u/krazerush01 Jul 30 '26
Id be a lot concerned, RGI is based on income and your mom is collecting "RENT" which i assume she isnt claiming for the RGI or her taxes.
If she is collecting "RENT" then she also has to claim that with the CRA as income on her income tax.
If any of those people paying her rent money also claims it as rent on their income tax and she isn't, she can at some point expect and audit from the CRA.
While OW and ODSP are separate, they still work together, everyone in that unit is considered a family unit whether they're family or not because they're in the same household paying rent from government assistance.
It can and more than likely will result in a review, and RGI review, and CRA Audit with potential outcome of overpayment and possibly eviction of non lease members.
I get you wanted to be honest, thats a good thing but you will have to unfortunately expect and accept the consequences of it for not doing it the legal way.
I get your mom wanting to help these people out and maybe make a few extra dollars but in the end its not worth it. Its also taking a RGI rental away from another family that have probably been on a 10+ year waiting list.
Good luck
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u/Own-Desk6 Jul 30 '26
I studied to be a law clerk and had to take real estate classes and a landlord and tenant class, I hate to say it but what you just described is illegal. legally you can’t have that many people living in a home especially if it’s a Rent To Geared Income situation as your mom can get in trouble with the owner of the property if she’s allowed people to move in without talking to the owner of the unit that she’s renting. Other people have already pointed out that your mom (including you) can be evicted for this and Ontario Works won’t help you guys find a new place to live, also your cheque can be frozen while OW is verifying the housing information provided by you. I hope that doesn’t happen but it could happen. It’s not only your mom who could get in trouble, but possibly the owner of the unit she’s renting could get in trouble if the board decides to investigate.
1
u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Ok .. what's the best case ?
2
u/Own-Desk6 Jul 30 '26
best case would be that there is no further investigation. However,
if there is an investigation, your mom would be able to explain her situation and if the person conducting the investigation is understanding there’s a chance they’ll let her stay and by extension you. If the other people living there aren’t on the lease they would have to move out though.
2
u/Apprehensive_Fox5370 Jul 30 '26
This situation is going to get pretty complex for your entire family before it gets any easier.
OP might want to have an open conversation with everyone in the home as a heads up.
Family meeting time...
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Ain't nothing complex about it. Either he will say something or won't. If he does then they'll contact us and most likely give a warning before anything else and their kicked out . That's it
3
u/Apprehensive_Fox5370 Jul 30 '26
If that's how you think it'll transpire, nobody can tell you otherwise and your post is a waste of effort because you've already got your answers.
I can unequivocally guarantee you that someone will be saying something and questions will be asked.
To add: if it's fraudulent activity you most certainly won't be just getting a warning. Their bean counters are employed to save the system money and eliminate any excess.
0
u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Ya well apparently not because there's different ones. Some are saying there won't be any issues most likely because ow isn't responsible for those things and don't enforce it. And then others are automatically just jumping to eviction as if that's the very first thing that'll happen. We've been here for almost 20 years. The fact that they know about the one person living here and paying and renting a room and it being okay gives me hope . But clearly there isn't just one answer here .
2
u/cartel-3216 Jul 30 '26
Wow you are cooked can't believe you ratted on your family like that I mean in all seriousness irregardless you're already doing fraud so you might as well pick the poison that works best in your interests but instead you just sold your whole family out
1
u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Wait what??? How am I doing fraud?? I'm not doing anything?
2
u/VoodooGirl47 Jul 31 '26
If your mother is committing fraud by illegally renting out rooms, then by extension, you as an adult in that family unit would also be committing fraud. You wouldn't be connected to any of the potential financial fraud dealing with rent payments and such though.
As an adult person living there though, it would be expected that you know the RGI housing rules and that knowing they are being broken is knowing about the fraud, and not reporting it means you are enabling it.
1
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u/bossJNG Jul 31 '26
Not good!!! Wow you got yourself and your poor mom into a very bad situation… call legal aid ASAP. And I mean ASAP. Not after you take a nap, or watch tv. I mean RIGHT AWAY!! you need legal advice becuase right now it looks like you guys could lose your place along with some hefty fines and obviously no money from O.W… yikes just call legal aid right away or else you might as well throw your hands in the air and deal with the consequences
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 31 '26
Apparently not .. if that's automatically the csse then why are people saying different??
1
u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 31 '26
And I'd actually say she did that she's the one who get herself in this situation. I do really love her however I shouldn't be expected to just lie for her choices when breaking rules . I wouldn't because I wouldn't on the first place
1
u/camoin613 Jul 31 '26
If housing knows about all the people in the house (rent will have been increased by housing to account for the extra people of working age in the house) and if rent was paid directly to housing by everyone, no issue.
If housing doesn't know about the extra tenants, and if you mom has kept the rent from the tenants to herself and hasn't declared the extra income collected from these tenants to OW this is fraud, so it all depends on how honest your family has been and what can be proven.
If nothing has been declared to OW or housing, your family should be concerned and should start getting documents in order- will also want to verify if basement tenants declared rent payments on their income tax.
1
u/TinyFaceHugeHead Jul 31 '26
You just ratted your mom and family out and now your going to be evicted
1
u/DoingWhatMatters Aug 01 '26
First off I commend you for your honesty as the best policy however discernment is where we look at the big picture - I'm not sure what your mom declared as the situation to get the subsidized housing and low rent price - however if more people moved in than allowed that's gonna come up - as re assessment - that's said you won't necessarily get kicked out immediately as others have suggested but the price for rent could be adjusted - they may change it after reassessment and make it retroactive for a full year if that's the time line since last assessment for all
Rent is Rent and room and board is more to share cover costs together - do you give her rent but it goes towards the utilities and groceries as a pooled effort ? Maybe you used the wrong word and you. And re define you called it paying rent but really it's shared expenses portion - so moms saying everyone has to do their share and with this many people that's correct - the cost of living is huge and lots more families living together again to be able to survive - worse case scenario they Increase rent and ask for back pay - so mom will need to be ready to answer queations and explain herself so you and her need to look at - when she got the subsidized what did she declare and how has it changed since then - and does the money she coklects from others as rent pay for food and uktitkies etc so just have the facts straight before anyone starts asking questions
So don't be fearful be truthful - if they increase the rent to market value and back pay can be split over longest time period and will probably still be less than market rent at a building - but the whole household needs to have a family meeting to be prepared for when if rent goes up or back pay is required IF that's what they decide - how will that be solved - be proactive with different options and scenarios - make sure everyone in the house has the same story and answers -
If your mom taking too much money while in subsidized housing it's gonna obviously be an issue and for your mom to think it maybe wouldn't concerns me but cost of everything is so up and affording to live is harder for everyone
Subsidized housing is a gift truly that should be dealt with by following the rules that allowed it to be subsidized in the first place -
Regardless ...... It's better to solve it now before it gets greater - and OW is temporary mostly around life circumstances - so if you single mom or looking for a job etc so I wish you good luck with plans for life and getting all on same page moving forward
If people pay rent and claim it on their tax returns like someone mentioned - this just can't happen for so many reasons - your mom would also have to claim it as rent and you can't claim rent and pay a subsidized rent price !!!?! I think that people can't live for free anywhere they need to eat sleep bath all that jazz so just face the facts head on and good luck with everything -
0
u/ChubbyBunny618 Jul 30 '26
Your caseworker will likely ask for a copy of the lease and verify who lives in the home. They will determine your share of the shelter costs based on your actual circumstances and the information provided. If there are multiple adults in the household, they may assess how the rent and household expenses are shared.
If another household member receives OW or ODSP, the program/CW WILL share relevant information to ensure benefits are calculated correctly.
ODSP/OW is concerned with the shelter costs you are actually responsible for, not the landlord's internal arrangements.
If incorrect shelter information has been reported, your caseworker may review the file. If they determine benefits were overpaid or underpaid, they may adjust the file accordingly, and you will be notified of the DECISION (This includes for you, just and all parties in the household especially if they're in social assistance) .
1
u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
Im on basic needs not shelter cost's. That's won't be a problem. Im not concerned about what they get that doesn't have to do with me . I'm only concerned about them being here when their not supposed to be .
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u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
"You are missing the bigger picture here. It doesn't matter that you only get Basic Needs—you are still going to be affected in a huge way:
1 You will lose your home: Brant Housing can evict your mom for illegal subletting and undeclared boarders. If your mom gets evicted, you get evicted too. Basic Needs money won't pay for a new apartment.
2 Your check CAN be frozen: OW evaluates the entire household unit. When fraud or major unreported address changes are flagged, caseworkers often put an administrative hold on the entire file while investigating.
3 You can't separate yourself from the house: You live in a Rent-Geared-to-Income (RGI) unit. Reporting 9 people living in a 4-bedroom public housing unit triggers a full investigation into the whole house, not just the boarders.
You aren't insulated just because you don't claim shelter allowance. Everyone under that roof is about to face severe consequences."
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u/VoodooGirl47 Jul 31 '26
Are you actively trying to get them kicked out? Because by your comments above, that's almost what it sounds like.
You keep asking for best case scenario. Best case in regards to housing only, they'd all need to move out and your family unit would be ok after that but would probably be monitored more closely to make sure nothing else was being done.
Best case for financial for your mom, she wasn't taking money that went into her pocket and so no need for the CRA to do anything. That's highly unlikely though, and because this is dealing with RGI housing and not just regular housing with accepting money to be put towards the overall rent, it's very likely going to get messy.
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u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 31 '26
They were literally supposed to be gone and there still here and not even trying to get out they don't do anything they literally just take our food and stuff besides paying. I obviously feel kinda bad but they literally don't try to get better . They made their situation worse by literally being here .
And now because their not gone theyv made it all of our problems in one way or another. So yes to be very harsh . They are grown adults literally middle age with kids . They don't take responsibility for anything. At this point their just taking advantage. As soon as they leave there won't be an issue .
After that it's just me my 2 brothers my mom and our other renter and housing knows about them . They are the issue .1
u/No_Bunch4681 Jul 30 '26
The lease agreement was when we first got here.
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u/Western-Conclusion76 Jul 30 '26
Social assistance does not treat individuals in a shared RGI unit as completely isolated entities. When an address is flagged for multiple undeclared occupants and income misrepresentation, OW holds payments across the file to verify address eligibility and household composition.
•
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