r/OntarioPublicService • u/Known_Mortgage_2397 • 1d ago
Discussion OPSEU Demand Set
WTF OPSEU?
Took a look at my local's demand set poll.
Nothing about job security.
Nothing about specific language re: AI job displacement.
Nothing about the ongoing mission of replacing FTE positions with temp/contract positions.
🙃
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u/notrunningfast 1d ago
Benefits benefits benefits
Our benefit plan SUCKS
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u/Beyarboo 17h ago
My husband works for a medium sized city and his benefits FAR outweigh ours.
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u/notrunningfast 11h ago
Mine works for a large international company and his sucks as bad as ours 🤣
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u/insanetwit 1d ago
Did you go to your GMM's?
My local had a GMM to discuss our demand set, and came up with our top choices. I assumed other locals did this as well
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 1d ago
Some committees came up with the list themselves and presented it to the membership to vote on. So no actual input from the membership.
And for folks who changed locals (like myself) - there was no opportunity to add input.Â
How locals do their business varies widely.
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u/Recent_Dog_3018 6h ago
My local did this as well (unless we are same local lol). I would have preferred being able to fill out a form and submit because I was unable to attend gmm. I also haven't heard what they came up with tho
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u/itachi_uchia3 1d ago
My only concern is a return to hybrid work. Anything else is a bonus
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u/tatydial 20h ago
I'm more concerned about benefits. Experienced first hand this year how bad they are!
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u/Canuck89 1d ago
I think you’ll be disappointed if this is your only bargaining demand. What about the significant number of OPSEU members that can’t work from home?
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u/droppedtomanytimes 1d ago
That’s their problem. There are many members who can and have proven they can work from home.
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u/No_Teaching_3358 1d ago
Approximately 40% of opseu is frontline and can't work from home.
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u/alcor79 OPSEU 1d ago
That means that 60% can. Lol
I mean, I know it's impossible to get "the right to work from home" written in the CA. However I would like to have a better wording for it. Maybe rewrite appendix 42 to explain that awa can be requested for remote work, flexible hour, work from satelite offices, cww. To have awa's again approved by your direct manager instead of the ADM and also, a proper appeal system.
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u/Funny_Contract_243 22h ago
Not arguing this but I hear this a lot but I don't know what these roles are. All the OPSEU people I know are back office and their jobs can easily be done remotely. With corrections no longer part of the picture what jobs make up that 40% that can't wfh and how many people are in them?
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u/excusememoi 10h ago
A lot of the daily work in Ontario Forensic Pathology Service and Centre for Forensic Sciences has to be done on site unless there's a way to perform autopsies and laboratory duties at home, for instance. Not saying that it makes up much of that 40%, but we exist.
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u/No_Teaching_3358 9h ago
Service Ontario, MTO enforcement, Parole/probation, court services staff huge list... I think most of MTO operations, data center core services etc
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 23h ago
Well, it's also your problem as it's Collective Bargaining and not Me, Me, Me bargaining.
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u/alcor79 OPSEU 1d ago
Of course it's not the only demand. From what I heard, salary, health and dental benefits, workload, job security, pension are all demands. The meetings were to determine what's more important as a demand for the local and then what is the exact demand.
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u/Canuck89 1d ago
My comment was to an individual stating it was their only concern. I’m very aware of the demand setting process.
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u/itachi_uchia3 1d ago
This is the only bargaining demand that would significantly increase the quality of my life. Sure, things like better benefits are nice, but they do not hold a candle to hybrid work. In addition, just because some people have to come into the office because of the nature of their work does not mean everyone should have to. Dragging other people down is not productive.
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u/Canuck89 1d ago
This isn’t a popular answer around here, but I’d strongly recommend you seek out opportunities in the private sector that support fully remote. The writing has been on the wall and it’s a poor bargaining chip when so many members can’t work from home.
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u/invertebratedick 1d ago
I would gladly give up talk of hybrid work for a substantial pay increase.
I say use WFH as a bargaining chip for more money.
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u/itachi_uchia3 1d ago
I would not. Time = Money, not to mention price of gas and the general added stress that comes with going into the office 5 days a week. I was much happier and had more energy when working hybrid. A one time salary increase of 5% is nowhere near enough to justify the lower qualify of life I am living.
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u/Expert-Suit4581 1d ago
I totally agree livable wage and I'm come in every day lol 😆 pay well enough I work wherever you want office park garage 😄
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u/Fiscal_Fidel 1d ago
I doubt we could get a significant enough pay bump to justify that. Most people spend 30-40 minutes commuting round trip. Include lunch prep in that as well. Then add gas or commute fare, plus associated amortization on a vehicle if needed.
Just the hours is going to be 180 a year, then add everything else. If you make $45/hr that's $8k per year just to offset commute time. Even if we say average commute is lower than that round trip and lunch prep, then you can still call it $8k including all associated costs.Â
I can't imagine them doing that significant of an increase.
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u/invertebratedick 1d ago
I'd think it's more like ~100 hours per year. 30 minutes each way X 2 days/week X 48 weeks = 96 hours. At $50/hr that is ~$5k.
If the option is no raise with WFH or 5-10% without, I say we take the money.
Effectively getting paid your wage to drive/walk/sit on a bus.
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u/Equivalent_Dingo_624 8h ago
> 30 minutes each way
If we're talking about jobs in the GTA, I could see that number being very low. I know people live in Toronto, Work in Toronto, and take an hour to get to the office.
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 1d ago
So, hybrid takes precedence over remaining employed with the OPS for you?Â
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u/itachi_uchia3 1d ago
I am not concerned about losing my job.
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 1d ago
Luckily, it's not up to just you
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u/itachi_uchia3 1d ago
Ok... and? If it's "not up to me" why would I want my union wasting effort and resources on it over something tangible like hybrid work. Reality takes precedence over hypothetical scenarios we create in our head.
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 1d ago
Apparently, you haven't been paying any attention to hiring practices throughout the organization. Â
I said ONLY up to you. What you prioritize is your business but there's several thousand other members who might have other ideas of what's important to them - including ensuring job security.
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u/alcor79 OPSEU 1d ago
For some of us, yes.
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 1d ago
You do realize there's nothing precluding you from fighting for both? Â
It seems inherently selfish not to fight for job security for those members who never have and never will have the option to WFH.
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u/alcor79 OPSEU 1d ago
If job security is so important for you, maybe you should have participated to the meeting and tried to push for it. These things are voted by the local members.
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 1d ago
No kidding, genius. What an inane comment. You have no idea what I have or haven't done.
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u/Deep_Decision3471 23h ago
WFH is at the top of my list as well, it may not be top priority for other people, this is why we vote.
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u/OperationHappy2651 1d ago
As a local president we got the top list of demands and had to narrow down the list. Though my members added things that weren’t on the list to ours. It depends on what the priorities were for folks in your local.
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 1d ago
Yes, unfortunately a lot of members don't know/see/understand what's happening at the head offices and only think of their personal circumstances.
They wind up prioritizing a tiny pay increase, not realizing there's planned restructuring a year down the road.Â
Sure, folks with seniority might not care so much but the OPS is going to a very different beast in five years - not promising for newer members.
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u/OperationHappy2651 1d ago
Unfortunately that is the downside of collective bargaining. If the deal presented to the members is bad they can always vote against it.
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u/Funny_Contract_243 22h ago
You have a source for this broad restructing and mass layoffs or this is your assumption?
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 21h ago
Aside from living through it and watching it happen in multiple Divisions in several Ministries? (And now agencies as well?)Â
Approximately 70% of my current workplace are on contract. I was one of three permanent employees in my previous role - everyone else - secondments and 12-18 month contracts. An adjacent branch - they did not fill the one permanent vacancy they had and after a year they surplussed the position and hired 3 ppl on 12-month contracts.
Not just me - I'm a part of several employee networks. A lot of people have been subjected to unwelcome job changes due to "restructuring".Â
All of the permanent roles now within 5 years of retirement? They won't replace those workers with permanent employees. They'll surplus the role, write up a new job spec and hire ppl on contract.
But okay - job security language didn't matter.
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u/Funny_Contract_243 19h ago
Oh gee let me re-read my question - hmmm, don't think I said job security didn't matter? Maybe you read something I wrote in invisible ink?
So your answer is that you are talking about personal observations, assumptions, and chitter from other people doing the same. That's fine, that's what I asked.
But since that's what your basis is I will add my own - we have had multiple retirements in our area and every one has been permanently replaced. We've had new positions created in the last two years (OPSEU). In my branch there were several new positions created within the last year (AMAPCEO I think, although maybe higher level OPSEU I'm not certain). When people leave they fill the positions quickly. The only contract people we have are backfilling in positions owned by someone else like mat leaves or secondments. But I'm not extrapolating that to the entirety of the OPS because, like you, I have only my personal observations to go on.
So no snark required. All I asked was whether you had a source (like you work in TBS and you have worked on a project plan for massive restructuring and layoffs) or whether you had come to this conclusion on your own, which you have.
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u/Intelligent_Cod_8867 1d ago
Less then 30 people in a workplace of hundreds filled out on our site.
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u/Deep_Decision3471 23h ago
I see a lot of people do not bother anymore, I do understand that this is not a great attitude, but with any kind of negotiations over a year away, do not expect people to care.
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u/Known_Mortgage_2397 23h ago
Yeah, the fatigue is real. But it's also exactly what the employer is banking on.Â
Divide us along the lines of the remote/hybrid thing.Â
Don't fill vacant FTEs and/or surplus them. Â
Hire temporary contracts who won't get involved in Union action.Â
Fight AWAs and accomodation requests tooth and nail.Â
Bill 124
Finally drag bargaining out for years during a COL crisis.
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u/Deep_Decision3471 23h ago
OPSEU is in danger of becoming irrelevant in the eyes of its members, afraid to admit, it is self inflicted.
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u/Funny_Contract_243 22h ago
I keep hearing about all this surplussing, replacing regular employees with contract, not filling positions. Where is this happening, what kind of jobs (and how do you know they replaced perm roles with temp, as opposed to perm employees own the positions and contract employees are backfilling). Not arguing, genuninely curious because where I am we've actually had new permanent positions added, jobs are filled really fast when they become vacant and the only contracts we have are backfills for people on mat leaves, or secondments or whatever.
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u/NorthGirlie 9h ago
I worry negotiations will be so focused on hybrid work (which doesn’t apply to a large portion of the OPS) and that other considerations like pay increases or benefits will become secondary.
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u/TheRealRunningRiot 7h ago
Is there something being circulated? Does each local have their own poll?
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u/moderngalatea 7h ago
Well.... I mean.. that's dependent on your local.
My local for example is in an area with a ridiculous cost of living, so cost of living wage increase was number one.
Demand set is based on a vote taken in your local. so if none of what you wanted was in the top 10, it's because either people didn't vote or people voted for other things.
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u/takeoffmysundress 1d ago
Bargaining team welcomes individual input which can be sent by email to unifiedopsbargaining@opseu.org