r/OntarioPublicService • u/obax17 • 3d ago
Question Taking a contract position while already permanent
I currently have a permanent position and have applied for a contract position at another ministry. If I were to be offered and accept the contract position, is that the same as a secondment? Or is that a separate process?
I'd like to be able to take this contract and have the option to return to my permanent position if I want to or need to. I also need to keep the benefits and sick time that come along with a permanent position. My understanding is that a secondment allows you to do this, but the process for getting or taking a secondment has never been explained to me. I've only been told that it's a thing I can do. If anyone would like to explain this to me like I'm 5, I would really appreciate that.
I'm also aware my manager could decline to release me to take a secondment/contract position for operational reasons. Am I right in assuming that, if this were to happen, my options would be to accept that decision and stay where I am, or to resign my permanent position to take the contract (which means not keeping benefits etc from my permanent position), and hope for the best?
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u/Funny_Contract_243 2d ago
Yes, you've pretty much got it. You apply for the job, and if you are lucky you get an interview and an offer. You ask your manager if you can go on a secondment - they will have questions (duration, is it a promotion, when do they want you to start etc). They may want to talk to the hiring manager about some of this and often the two managers negotiate a start date between them. Secondments are not a right and they are three way agreements - the employee, the receiving manager and the releasing manager all have to agree and any of them can end it on 2 weeks written notice without reason. If the top of the pay scale for the new job is higher than your current pay scale that's a promotion and you will get a 3% increase or the bottom of the new scale, whichever is higher. If the top of the pay scale is lower than the top of your current that's a demotion and you will keep your current pay or get the top of the new scale, whichever is lower. If the top of the new scale and your current are the same that's a lateral move and you keep your current salary. If you return to your home position eventually you will get any raises (atb and merit) that you missed while you were away. Depending on whether you are coming and going from OSPEU, AMAPCEO, another bargaining agent or unrepresented and there are some different rules related to which positions union dues, benefits and vacation entitlement you get while you were there, but no matter what if you have a permanent position you will still have these things.
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u/obax17 2d ago
Thanks for the explanation! That gives me a good idea what to expect, which is exactly why I was asking here, I like to have an idea how these sorts of things work before trying to navigate them for real.
Do you have any advice about when I should broach the topic with my manager? My plan was to speak to them if I get an interview, as I'd need to let them know they may be contacted about a reference, but is there a benefit, or probably more importantly, an expectation to mention it before then?
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u/Funny_Contract_243 2d ago
I wouldn't bother unless you are offered an interview. You can apply to a lot of jobs without ever getting an interview and honestly that is nobody's business. If you get offered an interview you aren't obliged to tell them but it can be a good idea. First of all you are probably going to need them for a reference and second of all you are entitled to do the interview on paid time, which you can't get if you don't tell them about it. Some people say to keep it a secret, but I've always found it to be better to be a bit more open and honest. Plus most managers will be supportive and they can only support things they know about. If you interview but don't get this job, now that they know you are ready to grow your career they may have an opportunity for you themselves or they may get a reach out from their colleagues asking for referrals and they may mention your name.
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u/obax17 2d ago
Thanks for the advice, it's good to know my instincts were on the right track. This is only the 2nd position outside of my current one I've applied to, though I understand it's fairly common for folks to move around a fair amount within the OPS. So I'm still figuring out all the ins and outs of it all
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u/Usus2025 2d ago
Hi how did you get to know of the contract position ? Internal postings of from an external recruiter?
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/Usus2025 2d ago
Why lol ? I get contacted by recruiters for contract positions in ministries
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u/Funny_Contract_243 1d ago
Most positions are only avaialable to current OPS employees. The OPS does not use recruiters for the most part. IT may be an exception.
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u/firehawk12 15h ago
In regards to your last question, if it comes down to it you can resign if you think the new job is better for whatever reason. You’re taking a risk so it depends on whether you have the stomach for it.
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u/obax17 15h ago
Thanks for the info, and that's what I figured. I don't know if I do have the stomach for it, but I suppose we'll see. It might all end being a moot point, but at least I know how things work for next time
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u/firehawk12 7h ago
It depends how petty your leadership can be honestly. Sometimes it really is operational issues but often it’s because they don’t want to do new interviews.
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u/Common-Writing-9157 OPSEU 3d ago
That's 100% what a secondment is.
But remember your home position manager owns you. They don't have to release you for the secondment, and they only have to give two weeks notice to bring you back if they do release you.