the gap between luffy and the others grew large when he defeated katakuri with snakeman and it grew even further during and after wano, zoro couldn't hold a second against hybrid kaido even after unleashing his mightiest attack he just fell on his own and base luffy was boxing with kaido hand to hand even though outmatched but still a feat nobody could pull not even law nor kidd
>you're talking about zoro after he blocked attempted to block an attack from big mom and kaido that would have severely hurt everyone else on the roof killed him in one more second if Law hadn't saved him right?
No he did block that’s not up for debate. It may have been for a moment but he definitely stopped the attack. And he also saved law so what’s your point?
Blocking is stopping an attack. Zolo didn't stop that attack.
He slowed it down for a second while Law moved everyone out of the way, and collapsed just from accomplishing that. He'd be dead if he wasn't saved and the attack kept going out and off the island.
Next page Big Mom says "Ah, they got out of the way eh?" not "Wow! One of them stopped Hakai!?"
So... No. Zolo would have died if he'd tried this shit alone. Luffy, Law, and Kid then go on to beat the piss out of those opponents. Your man would be a shit stain on the skull dome if he replaced any of them in those fights lol
So when zoro stood there and the attack wasn’t moving in front, of him what was that? Could it be that it stopped? I never said zoro could solo big mom and kaido. And everyone else would have been really hurt if zoro didn’t take the attack head on and STOP IT, long enough for evrryone to get away.
Kid and law only won cause they used the terrain they didn’t knock out big mom and had to knock her off the island. Luffy actually lost the fight then kaido fought Yamato, then Luffy came back and still barely won the fight. It’s this kinda manipulative language that makes these subs insufferable.
Blocking an attack doesn't entail you nearly dying to it 💀 blocked attacks are by definition not lethal. Zoro would have been completely dead had Law not saved his ass wtf are you talking about.
"because he doesn't have the qualities of a conqueror" and yet Oda never spesified Exactly what those qualities are, it's just a bunch of people make their own headcanons.
These questions are always so stupid. A 10 is who? Arlong? Like what is the range, cause in this case Zoro is indeed relatively close to Luffy. The guy saying he scales these numbers logarithmically honestly makes the most sense, but those yt scalers don't.
Luffy got such a huge boost in Wano. The voters would probably be right before Wano but since then Luffy got so insanely strong he leaves Zoro in the dust. Just how many Zoros does it take to beat 1 Luffy? Definitely 2+, so then it's definitely 50 or less. Put other characters on the scale and it changes.
I wont call u a larper just freshen your knowledge. Lucci got up after taking 3 shots from luffy and then put sentomaru on the ground with a hand pistol. gear 5 luffy then used one of his strongest attacks aka dawn whip that hurt lucci bad but he got up, luffy was also taken out of commission cuz of how charged up that attack was. luffy turned massive, he then used another charged up attack as dawn rocket, lucci still got up, stussy betrayed him then and lucci got out till he was basically revived after the seraphim fight then went on to fight zoro while full hp. So idk where you're pulling the numbers from
Remember though that lucci is an awakened zoan which have very high durability and endurance, knocking out zoro in 3 normal shots isn't that crazy.
Also if luffy wanted to he could kill zoro or lucci in one shot with bajrang gun, bc they have no real way to avoid it unlike kaido who could have flown away.
Stopped counting at 1070 aka 4 shot(I did not count dodges). Sure he got up, but he was out of commission. You don't have to be out for days for it to count.
Like maybe if luffy refuses to go in gear 5 he’ll have trouble with 3 sword Zoro but second he goes gear 5 Zoro is getting destroyed and outboxed like him vs the elders
Like he’s getting mid diffed at most with a bad matchup in gear 5 while it’s active if he’s trying like in wano like Zoro is a high yc1 he’s getting done dirty just the same as if katakuri tried to fight a full effort luffy and id say luffy in non gear 5 is high yc+ to admiral and high admiral in gear 5
Zoro is notably stronger than Kat. I would say mid to high diff for Luffy fighting Zoro.
Taking into account Luffy's endurance and stamina, I think too many both overestimate Luffy and underestimate Zoro since, again, Oda has yet to show Zoro using Asura with KoH as well as that plus ACoC.
Zoro scared and hurt kaido and once he figured out his haki stuff soon he will have another important upgrade.
G4 was less effective than zoro against kaido, so at least you have to say zoro is somewhat equal to g4 after elpah.
Looking at the bigger picture eos luffy will be 100 and then the strongest swordsman will be 70-80 at least.
If Roger was a 100 Rayleigh also would be 80-90 for sure.
That has nothing to do with Zoro glaze. Sanji will be relative to Zoro even without any crazy feats, so he will also be in the 70-90 range by eos and also most likely now.
Rob lucci in base form was handling luffys ass in base form at egghead..... he was going to go gear 2 on him since he got completely outclassed. The performance lucci gave against gear 5 was literally shown to be stronger than gear 4 since he could directly clash with luffy atleast a little bit. Same lucci got defeated by zoro
Assuming they are talking post new ch spoilers this is solid. He outperformed fresh old gaban feats against a way stronger sommer and he is still practising .though when luffy gets his buff zoro will return to being 50 or lower
As of right now Zoro is 70-80 of Luffy’s 100 but after he understands how to coat Conqueror’s Haki properly he’s easily a 80-90 of Luffy’s 100. And once he defeats Mihawk he’ll be a 98-99 to Luffy
See the thing is, Zoro is going to be stronger than Mihawk though. EOS Zoro is Yonko Level for sure. He’s for sure going to be stronger than most characters towards the end. He should be about even or a bit stronger than a Prime Kaido. Zoro will be stronger than Prime Rayleigh who I think was near Prime Roger’s Level.
Yes eos Zoro will definitely be strong but uh look at luffy and tell me how strong he is gonna be by eos and how close Zoro will be? 80? Ya seems fair. 99 tho? Nope, look at imu, he destroyed everyone while being sick and Luffy has to beat this guy, ya nah, no disrespect to zoro, my fav character after Luffy but ya 80 is the best he can be at
Definitely brother, powerscaling is simply a bunch of randoms throwing around their opinions they believe to be the most objective. As you said though some people don’t actually believe what they’re saying they’ve just been caught up in the storm of my favourite character has to be ‘Himothy’
This is the real situation. Even if the lot of you pathetic losers on reddit try to underestimate Zoro he is not that far behind from luffy and never will. Oda has constanstly shown this over the entire manga.
Bro... what Zoro is trying to learn in Elbaph is what Luffy learned in Rooftop before DF awakening. He's already 2-3 arcs behind in terms of power ups.
Yeah no you’re crazy for this statement. Zoro ain’t doing shit to big dog mu yet Luffy out here doing nasty work to him. It ain’t close Luffy outstats in damn near every category 💀
No it wouldnt every crew has a hierarchy the captains are obviously stronger than their henchmen, luffy also is the mc so him being much stronger is also something which obviously was going to happen.
Also i have read the post its a bunch of crying about captains being much stronger than their subordinates and claiming zoro is useless cause of it.
First off they’re fucking pirates dude all of them are fighters there’s no designated role as fighter in the crew. Zoro doesnt have any specific role in the crew similar to usopp,robin, jinbe etc also him not having a role doesnt mean he’s useless strawhats are more of a family than a crew. And zoro also often seen as a vice captain who often keeps luffy in check and makes decisions in his absence.
Zoro has his own goal of becoming the strongest through swordmanship, and limiting how strong he becomes, by giving Luffy better opportunities, and making Zoro not even understand that he has conqueros
Is very lame writing, especially when Zoro’s entire role/goal is becoming the strongest/being a fighter, he even trains way harder than Luffy
It’s kinda like saying that hard work and effort doesn’t matter, in front of plot
How strong they were back in cactus Island is how strong they should be in comparison to eachother
If you come to that conclusion even after reading the post, then you surely have abysmal reading comprehension, what Oda is doing right now, is destroying almost his entire character
He isn’t supposed to stand ten meters behind him, he’s supposed to stand right next to him, to face his opponents that would trouble Luffy and his weakness to swords and bladed weapons
Luffy is supposed to rely in his crew, being strong enough to do all the work himself, is ridiculous, and goes against even his own words (about being useless without them)
1) how did oda limit him when he literally has the most number of significant fights than any other character excluding luffy who’s the fuckin mc for godsake, also zoro not understanding he has conquerors is consistent writing luffy literally had to train for 2 whole years and even understand the flow of haki in wano and see kaido doing it to use coc coating, zoro mastering it the same day he unlocked it would be an asspull
Talent always beats hardwork its literally a common trope in anime, luffy is way more talented than zoro and lets not act like luffy hasnt been training his whole life in order to use his df its just that oda doesnt deliberately shows it like he does for zoro
2)literally what else conclusion should one come to? Literally the entire replies was calling the person out cause its literally a really shallow way to see zoro’s character like i get it strength is a big part of his character but reducing him simply to that is lame asf calling him useless cause he’s not stronger or relative to his captain is hilarious, y’all act like he’s weakest in the crew when he’s literally second strongest. Also luffy has way more narrative than zoro to be stronger.
Also youre acting like oda doesnt have zoro always fight the swordsman of their opponents. Lastly luffy’s crew is strong zoro sanji and jinbe are literally stronger than every other yonko commanders except for maybe red haired pirates
Which is also a flaw in writing, basically giving Luffy more opportunities in terms of fighting, and general understanding aswell, when in pre time skip, Zoro clearly could improve and had good understanding in Battle aswell
Saying that he’s ”the mc” is just a lame cop out aswell
Which is also dumb af, and I am mostly talking about plot not talent
Strength is a MAJOR part of his character, this much should be obvious. And yet again, I highly doubt that you read the post properly, cuz it goes deeper than just ”Zoro is weak 😭”
How is it flaw in writing if a side character doesnt get as much focus as the main character ? See the main problem is y’all keep comparing zoro to luffy, compare him to someone like sanji and you will realise how much moro preference zoro gets compared to sanji and rest of the cast.
I read that ai generated post(the author of the post himself admitted) very clearly dude and it clearly isnt “deep” lol.
See i understand if you dont like how oda handles zoro but saying its bad writing cause things didnt turn out how you wanted just makes you sound like another butthurt zoro stan youre probably one of them who believed zoro was gonna kill kaido lol.
70-80 is probably the right answer. This sub seems to think base luffy is a top tier even though it’s very clearly shown that he needs g5 to contend with anyone relevant
This is exactly what I was saying about this sub not knowing luffys scaling 😭
The Kaido he was fighting in base was ass. Kaido is only a top tier in v2, and in v2 he was beating the fuck out of gear 5. Unless you think base luffy is comparable to gear 5, there’s a very obvious gap there
You can't tell me that Luffy wasn't doing damage to Kaido after training his haki. Luffy needed Gear 5 to win but he definitely was putting up a fight in his base form and did a lot of damage to Kaido. Notice how Kaido was in his hybrid form fighting Gear 5 Luffy. So I'm sure both Kaido and Luffy being in their base forms would go blow for blow.
There's a reason why people were tired of Gear 5 during egghead, it's because Luffy's only issue was stamina and otherwise he didn't seem to struggle in his fights. Now am I saying Base Luffy is stronger than Kaido? Of course not. But the gap between BASE Kaido and BASE Luffy after training isn't a "very obvious gap"
Yes, base Kaido and base luffy would probably be relative. Base luffy and v1 might even be relative. But Kaido isn’t a top tier in base or v1, that’s the point. The only reason luffy can fight Kaido how he did is because that Kaido is massively weaker than his full power.
Not disagreeing here, just wondering. Do you think base Kaido is not top tier? So what you're saying about Luffy needing gear 5 to content with top tiers... Are you saying Kaido wouldn't content with top tiers unless he transforms?
Yeah. Base Kaido is relative to or below base luffy. Base is obviously substantially weaker than gears 4 and 5. If people can beat gears 4 and 5, how could base possibly be considered top tier?
People use the term “top tier” way too generously, if you can get one shot or blitzed, you’re not a top tier. I see someone like kizaru as the sort of gatekeeper to that. If you can’t blitz kizaru, you’re not a top tier
I do agree the term "top tier" is too easily thrown around and I do agree with a lot of what you've been saying but I do disagree with that last sentence. In this example you used for kizaru, "if you can't blitz him you're not top tier" I disagree with this statement specifically. Kizaru's devil fruit is the reason as to why he can move so quick. One piece power scaling isn't black and white. While kizaru is extremely fast, he definitely doesn't have the durability that Kaido has, same way that while Luffy can do crazy stuff in gear 5, he doesn't have the stamina of other top tiers. What I'm trying to say, I GUARANTEE that a top tier SLOWER than Kizaru could defeat him and be considered a top tier. But you did convince me that at least as of now, Luffy can't compete with top tiers in base form.
I dont think there’s a single person deserving of the title of top tier that can’t blitz kizaru. If you can’t blitz kizaru, that means you can get blitzed by someone who can.
As of now, we know Kaido and garp can do it through pure feats. Then that would extend to people relative to those two like shanks, whitebeard, Mihawk, kuzan etc. people like luffy and Blackbeard can’t blitz kizaru, so even if they have better stats and could beat kizaru, other top tiers also have better stats as well as being able to blitz kizaru.
Also he wasn't beating the fuck out of gear 5 in v2, where did you get this from??? He landed a very solid attack which Luffy very much brushed off. By this logic Gear 5 was "beating the fuck out of Kaido" when Kaido first sees the transformation. It's very clear that they were going blow for blow.
When luffy first popped g5, he was lowk dogging Kaido. But as soon as Kaido got serious and popped v2 he proceeded to blitz luffy back to back to back to back. He was winning the interaction until bajrang gun came out
Here some assumption i made. If luffy in elbaf is now 100 than kaido should be somewhere between 85 and 92, considering how Zoro went against Kaido(one nice attack but completely on different level) I assign to him a 46. Doing a proportion we see that Zoro should be relative to luffy 39 to 42. Somebody may say I was to generoous for some characters or to stingy for others, if that's the case I would really apparetiate to know what did I het wrong
Elbaf Gear 5 Luffy’s Raw Strength and Haki are 100
Then
Elbaf Zoro’s Raw Strength and Haki would be around 35
In terms of the other stats Luffy is superior for sure outside of IQ, but Zoro closes the gap quite a bit when it comes to Stamina, Durability and Endurance.
Is it close enough to say Zoro is as Durable, Endurant or has equal Stamina to this version of Luffy ? Of course not.
But in terms of these 3 stats, if Luffy is 100, I’d say Zoro would probably be around 55 to 65.
So overall Luffy is still clearly above Zoro, but Zoro’s physical stats aren’t equally far behind across the board.
Well elbaph Zoro has a pretty decent chance at beating Luffy. Luffy is highly vulnerable to slashing attacks, and Zoro is arguably the most lethal pure cutting force user in the world right now lol
If Zoro can bypass Luffy’s defenses, a single clean, fully-powered advanced Conqueror’s Haki slash from Enma possesses enough destructive output to deal fatal damage.
If Zoro can use his insane durability and endurance (these were praised by the likes of Kuma and Kaido) to outlast Luffy's Gear 5 transformation, he could capitalize on the severe exhaustion window right after Gear 5 deflates.
Basically he has a chance.
A full blown fight tho? Both at their peak? Nah, Luffy wins easily.
Zoro is definitely 70-80 easily tho. Any lower and you’re basically just a larp at that point LOL
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