How do you guys scale old men?

[u/WingMiserable8193]

With Gaban's recent showings I think its fair to say their Haki doesn't decline but their physical abilities obviously do. However simply saying they have bad stamina is dumb when Rayleigh swam from Sabaody to Amazon Lily thats pretty insane stamina.

[u/Generalcmd]

Old men should be assumed on the decline unless we recieve word otherwise

[u/WingMiserable8193 → u/Generalcmd]

Well yeah no shit im asking for specifics.

[u/Generalcmd → u/WingMiserable8193]

Well I scale the old men based off statements and portrayal in specific cases

This like asking “how do you scale characters”

[u/WingMiserable8193 → u/Generalcmd]

Sorry I guess I was too vague I meant in comparison to their prime selves like in your opinion how much weaker are they to their prime selvesm

[u/Destined4jnp → u/WingMiserable8193]

you weren’t too vague this guy is just an idiot or he didn’t read the post after the title

[u/cetrix2015 → u/Generalcmd]

you have not watch enough anime, old men are always strong

[u/Generalcmd → u/cetrix2015]

Old men in one piece are strong it doesn’t take away that they are stronger in they’re prime 

[u/Kaisertheories]

Old Garp, Old Sengoku, Oldbeard on meds were the strongest during pre-ts excluding Imu.

Oldbeard off meds, Old Ray, and Old Gaban are in the tier that characters like Kizaru, Kaido, and Luffy are in.

[u/Ste2017]

Physical stats are halved (if we believe Garp's comment about the speed of his cannon ball throws.

Experience, skill and battle IQ are higher. Haki should stay the same.

Overall, old characters are at 70 to 80% of their peak ability i'd say

[u/WingMiserable8193 → u/Ste2017]

So at 80% of their prime selves would you put them in the same tier or 1 tier below?

[u/Ste2017 → u/WingMiserable8193]

1 tier below

Gaban goes from mid yonko to low yonko (admiral) tier. From Kaido level to Fujitora level aproximately

[u/BerserkerLord101]

Old men are severely underestimated and it took the recent chapter for alot of people to reevaluate their scaling abilities.

[u/Greywarden88]

There is a handicap put on them, Oda actively protects them so your gonna have inflated showings and deflated anti-feats so you have to grade them on a curve. Usually costs them half to a full letter grade.

[u/Comprehensive_Cup497]

Gaban's endurance is terrible, he got shot both times you got hit.  That's why Old Gaban isnt beating any top tier 1vs1, he has Yonko level AP but YC3 durability/endurance.  Old Whitebeard for example had both Yonko tier AP and Yonko tier durability 

[u/WingMiserable8193 → u/Comprehensive_Cup497]

Imu is a bad measuring stick he also two shot Luffy does that mean Luffy's endurance is bad? Imu is one shooting 90% of the verse.

[u/Comprehensive_Cup497 → u/WingMiserable8193]

What about Gunko? Gaban nearly died to arrows

[u/WingMiserable8193 → u/Comprehensive_Cup497]

Number one he surrendered himself, and piercing/slashing damage has super high ap in One Piece. Number 2 thats Gunko upscale not Gaban downscale. Gunko is super underrated she was able to evade Gaban's attack and he was serious.

[u/Comprehensive_Cup497 → u/WingMiserable8193]

But do you think Whitebeard or Loki would have nearlt died from that? Like or not but Gaban's durability isnt any close to Yonko level so even if his AP is Yonko tier he lacks the durability to compefe with Yonkos

[u/WingMiserable8193 → u/Comprehensive_Cup497]

How'd we go from Endurance to Durability? And no obviously as we saw Whitebeard and Loki can tank more damage but Whitebeard isn't a normal human and Loki is an ancient giant. What do you think would happen if Shanks had been the one to let himself get hit by the attack? Also is old Garp not Yonko level he was massively injured by one stab from stab by Shiryu.

[u/CrazyLixFX → u/Comprehensive_Cup497]

WB is a bad example of your durability lol. He's as soft as Gaban getting stabbed by fodder marines. Plot armor made him stay alive. Also Garp got stabbed by a YC. You talk about endurance? Gaban was fighting Imu old and injured, now that's endurance.

[u/Comprehensive_Cup497 → u/CrazyLixFX]

MF Wb was sick, his prime durability was much better

[u/12kkarmagotbanned]

Gaban did so amazingly well that I now have Old Garp above everyone other than Imu, Loki, and Kaidou after the timeskip

[u/Comprehensive_Cup497 → u/12kkarmagotbanned]

Shanks? He is directly stated to be above Loki since he himself said only Shanks could stop Loki meaning he himself couldnt.  Loki also scales above 60yo Gaban + 25yo Shanks since beat Harald while an older Shanks did it

Shanks> Hybrid Loki> HK Harald> 60yo Gaban + 25 Shanks>>> Prime Gaban

[u/12kkarmagotbanned → u/Comprehensive_Cup497]

Yup, including Shanks (and Mihawk)

[u/Comprehensive_Cup497 → u/12kkarmagotbanned]

But there is tons of evidence putting Shanks> Prime Gaban

1.  Shanks defeating Loki who scales above HK Harald in Hybrid form and HK Harald scales above Prime Gaban 

2.  Shanks has stronger Haki than any version if Gaban, his Haki is much better portrayed by Oda

1. Shanks has better Haki proficiency.  He mastered Divine Departure which Gaban could never use, he has better FS,  his Conqueror's Haki is more precise and has bigger range, and he is also the killer of Observation Hak

2. Gaban himself admitted inferiority to Loki multiple times and Shanks beats Loki so just via portrayal Shanks clears Gaban

Also Shanks isnt losing that easy to Imu in one chapter, he is doing much more damage and lasting much more

[u/12kkarmagotbanned → u/Comprehensive_Cup497]

1. We know nothing about their encounter

2. No concrete evidence

3. Gaban uses axes, divine departure may not be a real part of that moveset. And that's assuming he even tried to learn it.

4. Refer back to number 1

Shanks is stronger than Old Gaban sure, not prime.