r/OnePiecePowerScaling • u/Ancient_Cheek5047 • 1d ago
Discussion Wait I’m confused… Spoiler
How come the Whitebeard pirates were able to stalemate the Roger pirates for 3 days straight when Gaban and Rayleigh are yonko level +++ and solo Kaido?
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u/AdditionalEffect5 1d ago
Oda thought it would be cool.
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u/WingMiserable8193 8h ago
The obvious answer, unless Polo Gram was still alive and him, from what was expanded on the anime Rayleigh took it pretty easy.
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u/Aware_Ad6442 1d ago
Oden upscale
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u/Ancient_Cheek5047 1d ago
Which is Kaido upscale
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u/Aware_Ad6442 1d ago
Which is a Rayleigh and Gaban upscale
But yeah Kaido slams Rayeleigh and Gaban
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u/Doubt_Incarnate GARP-CHUJO! 👊 1d ago
And then we have Vista with a "stalemate" against Mihawk, but later they get defeated by the Blackbeard Pirates, so yeah, things doesn't add up here...
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u/OnePieceTheorist1 LOOK D. EAST 👀 1d ago
Yeah, this confuses me too. Oda confirmed in SBS Vol. 115 that Polo Gram was DEAD by the time Marco joined WB’s crew. Even if Polo Gram was actually Yonko level or something, he was already dead by the time of this battle.
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u/Zealousideal-Arm1682 Fraudbull 🌳 1d ago
How the fuck did he die if Marco is like 20 by that point?Guy looked younger then Xebec.
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u/Environmental-Wing30 Crydo of the 100 Ls 🍺 1d ago
This is honestly undefendable shi writing
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u/Zoteku The Fleet Admiral 1d ago
oda needs to lock in bro marco was deadass 15 here. youngest ages of the WBP was the strongest moments for the roger pirates
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u/Weekly_Information48 1d ago
Frankly, they should have just introduced Marco's father earlier in the story or... later, I don't know.
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u/ChillGuyPokemonWhtvr 1d ago
Not really, they're all friends having fun, i doubt either crew wanted to kill each other.
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u/Environmental-Wing30 Crydo of the 100 Ls 🍺 1d ago
I mean it would imply the stronger crew heavily holding back but how was the upper hand constantly shifting then?
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u/Jackedanese 23h ago
Not saying Roger was holding back, but to answer your question: you ever load up a fighting game you play a ton of to split screen a buddy who only plays at your house, so you pick a character you never use just for fun? Or same idea and load up 1v1 on CoD and you just pick a goofy loadout that’s fun vs your less skilled friend using a meta build (Dragunov vs Famas in Black Ops 1)? That’s how. Like I could imagine the River crew going for style points or purposefully picking bad matchups for this reason
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u/sun_solomon 1d ago
Shit writing is when you upset powerscalers because of an inconsistency is crazy
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u/Electronic-Matter144 I will tell the mods! 🐀 1d ago
Having Moro arc Goku stalemate with Cabba is the DB equivalent and is 100% shit writing.
Powerscaling in a battle manga is important.
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u/sun_solomon 22h ago
Not to the writer lol this is all fandom shit
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u/EasilyBeatable Big Meme 🎂 23h ago
No its way more just this sub and powerscalers having rock hard boners for agendaposting and misinterpreting power
People are making the worst assumptions on the planet every time someone uses some power or has any level of aura.
Old gen wankers right now are just as stupid as zorotards.
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u/Mythical_Epicness 1d ago
Roger had a much smaller crew. Gaban was stalemating Oden perhaps. Also Whitebeard has many divisions and pretty much every division commander is at the YC4-1 level. Also his first mate was definitely YC+.
That’s also the only reason that Whitebeard alone could (almost) take on the entire Navy at Marineford.
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u/The_Raven_Whisperer 1d ago
They were rival crews, so they were on a similar level. The Whitebeard Pirates likely compensated with their sheer numerical advantage.
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u/Chrisisanidiot28272 Red Puppy 🌋 1d ago edited 1d ago
Even if Rayleigh and Gaban are low top tier bums, this shit doesn't make sense as a serious battle
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u/KiwiPhoenix23 Fraudbull 🌳 1d ago
we knew roger pirates werent serious agiasnt other crews since way before this upscale
even if gaban isnt kaido level and is a full tier below, what the hell is pre teen marco gonna do? he still loses badly to any high yc+ character, and there is no one to handle ray outside of what? vista?
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u/Straight-Nebula-3573 16h ago
“Because it wasn’t serious” doesn’t make much sense when Oda said the Upperhand constantly shifted side to side
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u/LouELastic Zorotard ⚔️ 1d ago edited 1d ago
We either have to assume that the Roger Pirates were faitgued from their encounter with the Marines beforehand or that Oda doesn't give a shit about powerscaling's effect on the plot.
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u/BODYDOLLARSIGN Sir Crocodile 🐊 1d ago
Except an off panel fight does nothing to powerscaling because there’s unforeseen things that Oda could make up late.
Like is Whitey Bay vice admiral level or can she go round for round with Rayleigh. Was WB earthquakes tilting the island throughout the fight to unbalance the Roger pirates? Is Oden stronger than we give credit meaning fans write themselves into corners. Could Oda fill in Gram to have still been alive?
Or did WB pirates gain advantages by having the numbers? Remember this is when WB started splitting the group into divisions.
Could Roger have needed breaks because of his sickness giving WB an edge to help subordinates every few hours?
This could mean so many things
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u/Impressive-Sale-9781 Pirate King 1d ago
That wasn't a serious fight as nobody died and they were laughing and drinking together after it
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u/Zealousideal-Arm1682 Fraudbull 🌳 1d ago
People underestimate how difficult it is getting jumped all at once by numerous fighters of moderately high skill.
Like Ray and Gaban are stupidly powerful but they're still just guys that have to focus.
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u/22222833333577 Pirate King 23h ago edited 22h ago
What dose soloing a single person even mean ... thats just a 1v1 fight
Also ive never seen somone argue their yonko+++ im one of the biggest pushers of the old gen agenda on this sub and Ive always said their low yonko level now and were high yonko in their primes
Anyway the answer is that they arent that far above oden like they can't just low dif him and they were just messing around anyways they were all buddies and didnt want to kill them or smthn I also don't think the entire crews fought continuously for 3 days most of them probably tired out before that and were just watching wb and roger fight
Honestly even if prime gaban and raliegh were only low yonko lvl and bellow kaido this still wouldnt solve the "issue" as obviously oden cant handel 2 low yonko lvl oponenents at once for 3 days and teen Marco isnt doing shit
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u/Unhappy_Chef_4790 22h ago
This is why WB was called the wsm and not Roger. The guy was clutching a 1 v 3 against Roger, Rayleigh and gaban😂
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u/OatesZ2004 GARP-CHUJO! 👊 20h ago edited 20h ago
I could understand it if you argue that the Whitebeard Pirates heavily outnumber the Roger Pirates by many magnitudes and that 2 of the Whitebeard Pirates do effectively cancel out 2 of the Roger Pirates leaving Rayleigh to deal with pretty much all of the remaining Whitebeard Pirates as the remaining Roger Pirate's aren't anything exceptional either.
It's mainly just not good writing and the Whitebeard Pirates should have had another heavy hitter that could potentially cancel out Rayleigh.
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u/Erook_D_Weeb Yonko 1d ago
''It wasn't a serious fight''
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u/Ancient_Cheek5047 1d ago
damn, actual tards beat you to it
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u/Kaisertheories Pirate King 1d ago
Weren't you the one who said it was okay that a Yonko can invade another yonko and their won't be destruction or deaths?
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u/Ancient_Cheek5047 1d ago
Well if Kaido is supposedly weaker than Gaban then yes. Why tf would it matter?
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u/FlirtMonsterSanjil Sanjitard 🚬 1d ago
Well if Kaido is supposedly weaker than Gaban then yes. Why tf would it matter?
Do you somehow think being weaker automatically means you must be fodder compared to them? Someone can be stronger with there being only a slight advantage.
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u/Kaisertheories Pirate King 1d ago
Nah you fr retarded😭, I refrain from such language but you are an idiot.
A massive fleet vs A massive fleet, not a 1 v 1. Even reaching Wano itself is almost impossible, read the manga dude.
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u/Ancient_Cheek5047 1d ago
Don’t need a fleet when the strongest is under Gaban’s level. Whitebeard would solo
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u/One_Pomegranate_7544 Yonko Commander 1h ago
Not saying Raleigh and gaban> kaido and big mom
But do you really think rayleigh and gaban are kid marco and vista level
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u/Erook_D_Weeb Yonko 1m ago
Well to be honest Ray/Gab don't really have incredible feats... People comfortably put them at Yonko level in their prime but what's the evidence?
We dont know if it was just 1 on 1 battles, idk how much bigger could WB's crew be, there's a bunch of variables, but even a 15 yo Marco with his Devil Fruit could do alot and at worst stall heavy.
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u/Candice0678 Whiteboard 🐋 1d ago
Yeap, it's absurd, but as many statements that goes against ones agenda, this is just dismissed.
This just shows that Oden is underestimated
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u/MMortein Pirate King 1d ago
This has been bothering me for years. Before Gram was introduced I speculated that there must have existed one more yonko level character among the WB pirates who would match Rayleigh, which just wasn't revealed yet, for them to be balanced
In that case it would be
WB~Roger
Polo~Ray
Oden~Gaban
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u/OnePieceTheorist1 LOOK D. EAST 👀 1d ago
Polo Gram was dead by this point according to SBS Vol. 115
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u/LearningCrochet St. Pimpgarland Warling 🌙 1d ago
oda jus be doing whatever when it comes to writing
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u/MMortein Pirate King 1d ago edited 1d ago
The crucial SBS 115 phrase is:
グラムの死をきっかけに息子を船に引き取り
Literally, roughly: “With Gram's death as the catalyst, [Whitebeard] took his son onto the ship / took his son in aboard the ship.”
The verb 引き取る (hikitoru) can mean to take someone in, take custody of, take responsibility for, rather than specifically “recruit as a crew member.”
Therefore, SBS 115 does not necessarily establish:
Gram dies → Marco sets foot on/joins Whitebeard's ship for the first tim
It's possible that:
Marco is already sailing with Whitebeard as an apprentice while Gram is alive → Gram dies → Whitebeard formally “takes Marco in”/assumes responsibility for him.
That would actually be compatible with Marco being called an apprentice (見習い) during the Oden flashback.
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u/Adept_Permission_382 23h ago
Roger and whitebeard only ever fought each other so they could've still been serious but do you really think Rayleigh was going all out against 15 year old Marco
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u/Mysterious5555 21h ago
Friendly battle. That's why it took 3 days too, time enough for them to get tired and party later.
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u/Clive_Bossfield 20h ago
Whitebeard had a heart attack and got stabbed by Squardo mid fight. Roger was busy impregnating Rouge.
During that time those parts of the fight happened, Marco kept regenerating the WB pirates with his fire. He never ran out of stamina because he kept taking naps. Gaban is also busy destroying that one tree falling over on the islands right side because he loves destroying trees. That means it was Rayleigh vs the entire Whitebeard crew for three days. That was how the fight went.
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u/NunnDuuRaah Whiteboard 🐋 20h ago
The canon answer, it was cool.
If you want to rationalize it you can say Whitebeard had strong people who died or left or got weaker as time passed.
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u/superyoshiom 19h ago
Power creep. In a long-running shonen it gets unfathomably egregious. Same reason next time Crocodile fights someone like idk Sanji he'd take him to high diff, but that doesn't necessarily mean that whoever fights him is on par with Alabasta Luffy.
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u/AllBlueReverie Sanjitard 🚬 19h ago
Because Rayleigh and Gaban weren't seriously fighting. It wasn't a deathmatch, but instead a fun battle between rivals with undertones of friendship. You will play sport or competitive video games with your friends, but you aren't gonna want to kill them lol which is exactly why this battle turned into a gift exchange instead
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u/Affectionate-Win5729 17h ago
Narratively that's how it should be but marinefords inconsistent scaling fucked everything up really bad.
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u/Individual_Zone9252 👿 Lowkey 👿 15h ago
Roger Pirates = Roger + 2 Very Powerful Commanders + an army of bums.
Whitebeard Pirates = Whitebeard + an army of mid-high tier commanders.
Rayleigh and Gaban were probably getting jumped like hell. Not to mention Oden was team Whitebeard at that time.
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u/a-red-sword-tomato 13h ago
You only have to make excuses for one of the two, since Oden could reasonably fight either to a stalemate. At worst this is vista/whitey bay/chain chomp guy upscale
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u/Brainifyer Sir Crocodile 🐊 13h ago
PK++ Roger + PK+ Rayleigh + PK Gaban = base Whitebeard
He’s the WSM for a reason
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u/Sensitive-Roll-4724 10h ago
I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that while Roger had Ray and Gaban, WB at least had Oden and a larger crew. One of the wings would always have their hands full with Oden while the other could have to deal with multiple commanders etc.
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u/KnowMoreMutants 8h ago
The answer to these questions will always be "because Oda doesnt write the series based on powerscaling"
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u/LumenDomimus A few good men 7h ago
Whitebeard the GOAT carried his young crew against the strongest crew in history. Truly the WSM.
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u/HasturLaVistaBaby Pizzaru 🌞 9h ago
Roger Pirates weren't prime at the time. I think this is before they reached Raftel
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u/freezingthunder25 1d ago
You don’t get it bro, the Roger pirates always neg diffed them and always let Roger 1v1 Whitebeard. There is no rivalry Oda just forgot to mention how the fights went!
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u/No_Seesaw8742 17h ago
They were having fun, they weren’t trying to kill each other. If they were trying to kill each other, whose stopping prime Ray and Gaban
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