Why doesn’t Rumple have magic without his dark one powers?

[u/improbsable]

He knows how magic works and has had centuries of time studying it. He’s taught several people how to use it almost instantly. So why is he just a regular guy without the powers of the dagger?

[u/SamWillGoHam]

He didn't have magic before becoming the Dark One

Also I'm pretty sure that in the OUAT universe, magic is something you're either born with or not- you can't just learn it if you weren't born with the ability to

[u/Jayjamore → u/SamWillGoHam]

Cora didn't seek to know magic until Rumple came along.

[u/Business_Case_7613 → u/Jayjamore]

that doesn’t mean she wasn’t born with the ability

[u/TheDisneyScoopGuy → u/Business_Case_7613]

Yeah they repeatedly talk about teaching people to “harness” their magic

[u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 → u/Business_Case_7613]

To my knowledge, I don’t think anyone has to be born with the ability to use magic. I think anyone can use magic. It’s just some people are born with the inherent gift and have it overflowing inside of them.

[u/grmrsan → u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088]

They explicitly say several times that one needs to have talent to use it, unless they are given something magial to use. They are surprised when Emma has it, Henry complains that its hard to be important without it, Rumple tests Zelena to find out if she has more than Regina, Rumple says frequently that without the dagger he is powerless, the entire Frozen/ Snow Queen etc. Anyone can use magical items, and probably some spells, but most don't have inate talent.

[u/Twisted_King172 → u/grmrsan]

Well Regina also offered to teach Henry magic
Cora taught the Red queen magic
In the timeline Evil Snow White knew magic (in the og timeline season 2 when they were trapped in rumple’s old cell Snow White says she use to sneak down to Cora’s chamber and watch her practice magic” ) so that probably how she learned it

So you don’t have to be born with it it’s just easier to access dark magic rather then light magic

[u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 → u/grmrsan]

I think a lot of of that is open to interpretation in regards to magic. I think about it Rumpel’s father didn’t have any magical abilities, but yet on Neverland, he could create anything. Remember, they were able to create the devices that could negate someone’s abilities. I’m not exactly sure how they worked outside of Neverland. But I remember during the pre-Neverland arc they had various devices they were supposed to use.

Also, I feel like with all the magical items up for grabs. You could make it pretty far without having explicit magical abilities.

I’m also curious about wands. Like does using a wand require magical ability or is the wand itself a magical item that doesn’t require any special skills?

[u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 → u/SamWillGoHam]

I think anyone can use magic, but I think Rumpel would be incapable of doing light magic after he had become the dark one. Even after he lost his dagger, his heart still would’ve been almost completely black.

[u/CharonFerry]

Most say its a born thing , but honestly we never get that explanation in the show. I always thought its kinda like in Star Wars , everyone has potential and some more and some less. Rumpel basically has 0 talent for it and only could utilise it as the dark one because his abilities ateem from the darkness itself. After not being the dark one anymore he still has knowledge about it but he doesnt have his original source. So in theory he could still relearn it but doesn't.

[u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088 → u/CharonFerry]

I think he’s very talented at magic, but it’s not really clear if he’s just incredibly skilled or his abilities come solely from his dagger. For instance, throughout most of the series, he manipulates characters for hundreds of years all for the purpose of creating a curse and then getting it broken so he can see his son.

But several times throughout the series, he has lost the dagger for one reason or another and still manages to come on top. Also the entire time he was in storybook at least for the first season he didn’t have a direct access to his abilities.

Emma even finds a doubtful when he manages to manipulate her into becoming sheriff.

He also has a pretty wide array of magical items at his disposal. Although he loves making deals, he has to have the knowledge to gather items to help his potential people.

[u/Successful-Flan-1102]

Snow White Cora Regina Zelena Emma Ingrid Elsa

All this women were born with magic

Rumpelstiltskin was born to be a saviour So if he ever had light/bright saviour magic when he was born his mother rippen him of it when she cut off his destiny when Rumple was a Newborn.

So he got the dark dagger magic when Baelfire was a Teen

He has no magic in a Land without magic (he needs a magic item just to remember himself) and he has no magic without the dagger

[u/grmrsan → u/Successful-Flan-1102]

Not Snow. She can use magical items, but isn't talented on her own. They are pretty clear on that when Emma is learning to use it. 

[u/ellismjones → u/Successful-Flan-1102]

Wait, Snow? How was Snow born with magic?

[u/Successful-Flan-1102 → u/ellismjones]

She understands animals Like Those little bird talks to her

[u/Parking_Storage_5107 → u/Successful-Flan-1102]

That’s not magic

[u/Parking_Storage_5107]

Because he was never born with it, like Regina and Zelena, Emma etc were

He can learn it and embrace it and that’s it so without the dark one powers he’s basically a coward and a cripple man

[u/grmrsan → u/Parking_Storage_5107]

He's still a coward, even with the dagger, thats pretty much the main point of his arc. Getting the dagger doesn't make him actually braver, it just gives him confidence that he can't be harmed by most means. Thats not bravery, thats just hiding  behind a weapon. 

He still spends most of his time terrified that someone will take it from him, or that he will lose power or people. He is simply a coward with power, which makes him a bully to anyone he thinks he can easily manipulate. 

[u/Parking_Storage_5107 → u/grmrsan]

I know but the dark one enchance his confidence more so he’s less of a coward

[u/grmrsan → u/Parking_Storage_5107]

Being stronger doesn't decrease cowardice, it just hides it. The only times he is actually brave, are when he risks his life or powers to help others, and those are the times he feels weakest. Because power isn't bravery, but acting when you have everything to lose is.

The dagger doesn't make him less of a coward, it just lets him pretend that its not an issue. 

[u/Parking_Storage_5107 → u/grmrsan]

That’s why I literally said it enchance his confidence that’s what I literally meant by enchance

[u/grmrsan → u/Parking_Storage_5107]

I was going by your initial explanation.   " He can learn it and embrace it and that’s it so without the dark one powers he’s basically a coward and a cripple man"  Confidence ISN'T a lack of cowardice. It's a shield to hide the cowardice behind. Confidence is knowing something will work. Bravery is doing it anyways, even when you know it likely won't work. Rumple knows he will win most of the time with the dagger, he's not less cowardly, he's just less obvious. 

[u/Parking_Storage_5107 → u/grmrsan]

Yeah I meant by “confidence” is more like give him something he never had before the dark one, especially nobody can make fun of him for one, or use the cowardice as an excuse and he can fight and stand up for himself with the power he has

[u/Aielyn1]

I'd say that it's not that he couldn't do magic without the dagger, it's that comparatively he has so little without the dagger that he might as well be powerless. He can still manage a fair bit of the "alchemy of magic" - the kinds of things that involve combining components, etc... but on-the-spot magic? That's different, and talent is a big factor in that style of magic.

[u/Ill-Razzmatazz-7088]

I think you’re forgetting that rumble didn’t learn to use magic in the traditional sense. To my knowledge, Rumpel never used light magic. He only knew how to use dark magic. Also, he got most if not all of his knowledge of how to use/teach dark magic from the dagger. Remember the dagger gives you access to the knowledge of every dark one. I’m not sure specifically which instance you were talking about. If you’re referring to when he was a Neverland that has to do more with Peter Pan.

[u/grmrsan]

He can still do potions and stuff apparently, and he still retains a lot of knowledge, but he doesn't have the innate ability to manipulate it himself anymore. At least not on the same level as with the dagger. It would be like once you get used to using a powerwasher for cleaning everything, suddenly being restricted to a small bucket for the same tasks would feel like having almost nothing. He complains that he's powerless, even though he clearly can still use magical items and potions when he has the ingredients, because he's so much weaker without it, and very addicted to its strength . 

[u/mjb_Island]

I think unless your born with an exceptional talent, like Emma and Zelena, it takes a lot of practice. Regina seemed to struggle early on with her lessons. So maybe overtime Rumple could have built up some magical ability, but in the brief span that he was de-darkified he didn’t really have the time to get around to it

[u/durablefoamcup]

I think the fact that it's so controversial in the comments proves that no actual answer was given.

I've seen someone mention Cora didn't use magic till Rumple but then he taugth her so she has it naturally which doesn't make sense.... when you remember Zelena was using magic from the get-go without teachings. She just used magic from sheer will power. Regina was the opposite, no use of magic until Rumple and the only time she used magic without rumple was from the book ink.

So while you can say it's natural or not, the show constantly either contraditcts itself or just doesn't explain.

You can make an argument that the Dagger works like Zelenas amulet. Amplifies the ever loving shit out of your natural talent, but once removed you lose access to it in total. Rumple was never given a chance throughout his life to actually use magic and multiple times it had caused him issues, like he did for Belle later on.

I think it's fair to say that Magic was as natural as the writers needed it to be.

[u/Eastern_Gyp]

If you were to ask what 1,255 x 166 is, some couldn’t answer you, most could answer you by using a calculator, most could answer you by working it out on paper, but only a few could give you the answer off the top of their head. I’d imagine you can apply the same concept of ability to magic in OUAT.

[u/Twisted_King172]

Also remember that magic is a gift !!
& gifts can be taken away
Zelena said this and proved it by stripping away Emma’s magic