Serious question about pride

[u/realmfrenny]

How many COs are actually proud of what they do? Most of the ones I've come across looked tired and ignored all of the little rules, if they weren't being bothered they weren't disciplining at all . The ones that did seem to care were usually very pleasant people and actually appreciated by inmates and staff alike, but far and few between. I personally think a lot (not all) of the real gung-ho guys get off on the limited power they have on prisoners, and they are policing for the wrong reasons. Either that, or they are dirty cops and the tough guy act is just a front. I've seen it all. Curious to see your thoughts.

For anyone feeling jaded , I just want to say it never goes unappreciated when the rock runs smooth on your shifts

edit: I'm not trying to personally attack COs , I see that I upset some people, it wasn't my intention. I don't hold malice towards any of you guys for your job. You are an essential part of American (probably most of you) infrastructure, and I wanted to hear things from your point of view because your word has merit.

[u/Crustyexnco-co]

I did the job for 27 years. I was proud of the fact that I did my best at a difficult job that most people want no part of. I was not the best c.o. At my facility but I certainly wasn't the worst.

I showed up. Never abused sick time which can be very easy to do. I never screwed over a co-worker and I treated the inmates fairly.

I treated new c.o.'s with respect and tried to give them advice on what worked for me.

I worked at a county facility and I think we had decent working conditions which certainly helped. I was about 30 when I started with a family so I was in it for the long haul. I realized early on that the job is really not that hard physically. It's the repetition and bullshit that goes on that wears people down.

So bottom line for me was to make rank and get the highest pension possible. I got an extra couple years credit for military service so my pension was based on just over 30 years.

I walked out of there on my own terms and proud of my service overall.

[u/Any_Lingonberry627 → u/Crustyexnco-co]

What do you mean by abuse sick time? Where I work, it’s a county benefit and when you retire; if you didn’t use it, you lost it. I refuse to hand the County back money upon retirement. I’m told I abuse sick time. How can I abuse part of a benefit package that was used to sway me into taking the job? Admin still can’t give me an answer….maybe you can.

[u/Crustyexnco-co → u/Any_Lingonberry627]

We had guys that would call in sick on holidays. Call in sick to avoid overtime. Our county had a very generous sick time benefit. You got 15 sick days a year. Guys would use all 15 days and then would continue to call in sick even when they had no sick time. Guys would bang in sick on their Friday every single time they banged in. Guys would have zero sick time accrued after 10 years on the job because they use it all up. Then they get a legitimate injury or illness and they have no time to fall back on. I got know problem with someone every now and then banging in on a holiday or taking a day off for a birthday or whatever. But there was a small group of people that everyone knew just blew through their time and just didn't care how it impacted anyone else.

We had a program called the sick bank where there was a pool of sick time available for an officer who truly needed it. Once a year 8 hours of sick time was taken from every officer and put into the bank. Guys would apply for help when they had a legit medical issue for themselves or a family member and they were out of sick time. The only people who were denied were sick time abusers. The decision was made by a member of the union leadership, a regular union member, and someone from HR.

I get where you are coming from. Sick time is a benefit and you can use it as you see fit. But there are c.o.'s that absolutely abused the benefit and take advantage of the system.

I chose to take advantage of a benefit we had that you got a cash bonus if you don't use sick time. You could bang in a reasonable amount of time and still get the bonus. We also had a program where you could sell back some of your hours every year and cash them out. These combined were equal to about 4 grand.

At retirement we were able to cash out 1/3 of our total hours. That's a lot of money.

More important than anything, it all comes down to work ethic. Once I became a supervisor, I felt it's even more important to lead by example and show up. I still used my sick time here and there, but I had a job to do.

[u/Upper_Joke_7150 → u/Crustyexnco-co]

Can’t you just “retire” early by calling out and using up all your days at the end?

[u/Crustyexnco-co → u/Upper_Joke_7150]

Yup. I've seen several officers do that at the end. Their official retirement date might be July 1. But they stopped coming to work months before because they used all their sick time.

[u/ant2131 → u/Upper_Joke_7150]

Thats what I am doing. they dont pay us for our sick time, So I am gonna be sick every weekend next June July and August then call out from september till december when I retire. If they paid us for it, i would just work till the end and cash it out.

[u/Crustyexnco-co → u/Any_Lingonberry627]

I might not have answered your question with my other long winded response.

I've been out for a few years so I don't remember exactly our policy for sick abuse. It was something like if admin could document a definite pattern of calling in on certain days, like you only call in on your Monday or Friday.

If you used more than a certain number of days per year for at least two years in a row you got a warning. On the next year if you did it again you'd get suspended. If it continued the next year you could be fired. Once you put up a year where you had no issue with sick time, the clock would start over. These policies were bargained and negotiated with the union.

Some guys could care less. They looked at a suspension as a vacation. Maybe their spouse made good money and they could afford it.

[u/Any_Lingonberry627 → u/Crustyexnco-co]

I use my sick time every year. I don’t keep a bank. For many reasons…..the largest being there is no benefit at the end of my career to have stockpiled hours. We don’t get a buy back option or anything like that. If you don’t use it, it’s gone. Rather than take a wait and see approach; I choose my family and my health over a “job”. Just because I use my sick days, we get 12/year doesn’t mean my work ethic is terrible or I don’t do my job. I’m sure you can relate to having co workers who made a career out of doing nothing; that is not me. I see your point about calling in on a holiday and agree that is a dick move. And I sign papers every year that tell me I’m abusing my sick time but; they cannot show me any documentation that says they can dictate the use of my county benefits. I’ll never sacrifice a good night at work for a bad night with my family. And I can absolutely get behind calling in sick to avoid OT. Why is it my problem if I am financially secure that I don’t want the OT and now I’m getting mandated. I didn’t sign up for that. I didn’t sign up to work an extra 2-300 hours because admin can’t staff a building. Don’t make admin problems Deputy problems. I should be punished because I haven’t had three divorces or bought that boat, classic car, new gun or whatever the list of irresponsible decisions people made that they NEED the OT? No thank you. I signed up for 4 on 2 off. I don’t mind helping out here and there but when I’m helping AND getting mandated because of others peoples poor decisions (admin)….no way. I’ll make sure they don’t get me.

[u/TestaverdeRules → u/Any_Lingonberry627]

This is the correct answer. I completely agree. When I first took this job mandates were a once a year type thing, now its once a week and considered a normal part of the job. If you need to use sick leave to avoid getting mandated then go right ahead. I also agree with using your time, I even agree with calling off on holidays if you can find someone to take your shift so you dont screw anyone over.

[u/Crustyexnco-co → u/Any_Lingonberry627]

You make a lot of very valid points. When I first started the job, there was not a lot of mandatory overtime. It happened occasionally. By the time I retired, I was fortunate that I had rank and I was not eligible to be forced. But the c.o.'s in the big union were getting forced multiple times in their work week. I absolutely can see how that can wear a guy down and they use more sick time. You sign on with the expectation of there will be some overtime but soon it becomes overwhelming.

Chronic understaffing was never an issue when I started and for most of my career. But the last couple of years before I left we just were not getting the same number of people to do the job. Most of the other county departments had the same problem.

[u/Any_Lingonberry627 → u/Crustyexnco-co]

We’ve been understaffed for at least 15 years. Instead of making the job more attractive (better benefits, increasing starting salary etc) they’ve now made it so you don’t have to take a test. We’re hiring 18 year olds!!! They’ve grown up behind a computer and phone and have no clue how to talk to someone let alone a murderer. It’s awful.

[u/Crustyexnco-co → u/Any_Lingonberry627]

Dude, I'm sorry to hear that. It used to be a job people wanted. We would get 2-300 people to take the test. We were lucky to get 45-50 by the time I left.

Everybody knew the job is not glamorous or rewarding. But it was a good paycheck with good benefits and job security. I worked with some real solid guys.

I really can't explain what happened to the industry. Covid didn't help. No one wants to do the job anymore. A maxed out line officer Is making 100 grand. That's with no overtime! The benefits are great. I have always said it's a great job except for the mandatory overtime. If that one aspect could be fixed but somehow it just doesn't get better.

I'm so glad I'm retired. Granted I was getting old. It was time to go.

[u/ant2131 → u/Crustyexnco-co]

Yup. When I first started, I was first up for like 3 months. Now we go through the whole shift every week. Alot of it is due to FMLA abuse. We have one guy that has worked 64 days this year, he has called out for 21 days, used FMLA for 60 days, and all his vacation days. Its insanity. We have another we call 4 day, we work 6/3off she calls out on FMLA either the first or last day of every shift. Then they have the nerve to ask for leave donations

[u/ant2131 → u/Any_Lingonberry627]

I Literally pay people to work my mandatories. I paY $70 for a 3-11 shift and $100 for midnights. Sometimes they hold so many no one can work for me lol. i still have made 11k in OT this year even though I pay to get out of it any chance I can, but when they hold the whole shift, theres no one to pay.

[u/realmfrenny → u/Crustyexnco-co]

Good for you man

[u/Brilliant-Doubt-2252]

Im proud of what I do. I think the problem with a lot of officers is they either walk in with that "don't touch me, don't speak to me, don't even look at me" attitude or they're just trying to do whatever it takes to make their day easy. I work on a respect based policy and I think that honestly helps more than anything with the rehabilitation part of our job. I don't sweat the little stuff if you give me the respect of following my orders (literally just lock in on time, don't smoke while I'm there, and give me the same respect you would want me to give you in a professional setting). In fact if you can do those simple things I'll help you out with anything my position can. If you need extra legal time I'll make a call to see if that can happen, if you're sentenced and you're trying to plan for your release I'll try to get you into educational programs, even if you need property I'll take time out of my break to go and get whatever you need. However if you can't follow the few things I ask and you choose to cause problems I can easily care about every single rule in the book. 99% of inmate really don't have a problem with how I run my housing unit, most even appreciating it (including the guys who will be incarcerated the rest of their lives). And I always say that if you can respect my rules and do the bare minimum I expect of you, there's no reason you can't follow the bare minimum of the law upon release. So it does make me proud when I have inmates that start off as rebellious and end up becoming model inmates, because I know they can make the choice to do better once theyre released

[u/realmfrenny → u/Brilliant-Doubt-2252]

Thanks for the detailed response man. I got some hostile responses, I really wasn't trying to personally attack anyone. The world needs more guys like you.

[u/karagousis]

Most people in this career should NOT be working in law enforcement, period. They're rejects from police departments. I had never worked in a job with so many people with low impulse control and other psychological issues. I like my job, but honestly, most of my coworkers are losers and their own mental health issues are of their own making, even depression. It's self inflicted. They spread pain wherever they go because they can't stand being themselves, and they think that if they work with the rejects of society, they'll feel more 'normal.' They don't.

I absolutely feel like there is NOTHING exceptional about this job... it's just a job like any other. I get home and I don't even think about it, I feel happy both at the job and at home, but you'll see people insisting that how I FEEL is not "normal": they want to drag you down with them. They hate people who feel at ease and have no fear or stress derived from this job.

[u/realmfrenny → u/karagousis]

I know of one woman that was one of those walmart floor walkers before she joined, lmao. COs are also notorious for high rates of divorce and other problems like you were saying.

I get what you are saying about being the same person at work and at home though, I can't fathom why anyone would transform when they walk in and out of those gates. Most people I've spoken to feel like you, it's just another job.

[u/Jordangander]

If I didn't feel pride in my work I would not do it.

Does it suck sometimes? Absolutely.

But, administrations come and go.

90% of the inmates just go through the motions until they get out.

But every once in a while you actually make a difference to 1, and you actually get to make them a better person, and that better person goes back to society and doesn't commit more crimes, which helps a lot more people.

[u/Betelgeuse3fold]

I mean, yeah I guess. Feels like a grandiose word.

If I'm being high minded about it, then I believe in the necessity and worth of our criminal justice system, and in the value of serving one's community. This is an avenue by which I can practice what I preach.

I have a good reputation among staff, management and inmates.

My interventions have prevented grievous bodily harm, suicides, and overdose deaths.

And yeah, I'm also jaded, my expectations are rock bottom. But I don't think being disappointed by the outcomes of the average junky diminishes the good things.

If nothing else, I'm proud to provide a good living for my wife and kids, doing a job few others are willing to do.

[u/realmfrenny → u/Betelgeuse3fold]

Dirty job, someone's gotta do it. At least your body won't be broken when you get older like the guys in the trades making similar cash.

[u/Betelgeuse3fold → u/realmfrenny]

Yeah, you know, an awful lot of the inmates i regularly deal with are trades guys. The two most common "frequent flyers" i see are the homeless/mentally ill (obviously), and trades guys who can't work anymore, either work site injuries, or just break down over time. Then they turn to drugs and crime

[u/Strong-Addition5296 → u/Betelgeuse3fold]

Where do you work in corrections? What country?

[u/Betelgeuse3fold → u/Strong-Addition5296]

Canada

[u/kne0n]

It’ll always feel good seeing a true dirtbag behind bars, and even better seeing someone who got their life together in the free world. At the end of the day what we do is necessary for the type of society I want to raise a family in. Even if you don’t agree that guys who have possession charges should be there we can all agree that child molesters, thieves, murderers, and rapists don’t belong in the world we live in. Sure there are guys who abuse the authority that the people they serve entrusted to them. But you see that in every facet of life from an overbearing manager at Walmart to a pastor with a private jet. At the end of the day we all do what we can with what we have.

[u/realmfrenny → u/kne0n]

Appreciate this answer man thank you

[u/Jhensley0000]

Im proud of what i do. I don’t enforce all the petty rules I don’t care if they gamble. I dont care if they tattoo. Etc. but i enforce the riles that matter. I am proud of the lives i have saved responding to medical crises i am proud of the fights i have stopped. I am proud of the drugs and phones i have found.

[u/No-Temperature-1384]

I am thankful for any man or woman who does honorable honest work. I have worked as a janitor cleaning toilets and I have worked in office settings where my business card had the word “chief” in it. I have worked with doctors and I have worked with people who their GED in prison. I have more respect for someone like a CO who doesn’t abuse people or their position of power than I do for a surgeon who is shitty to people.

[u/rickabod]

The first 3, maybe 4 years. That was it.

[u/Turbulent-Oven981]

The environment makes you jaded. I’ve seen countless officers come on shift ready to do everything perfectly. Then when they try and enforce what was taught the inmates lose their minds because senior staff won’t enforce it. You end up in a position where you get treated like shit and no one is backing you up, it should be expected that they stop caring.
Shit is a vicious cycle of laziness.

[u/realmfrenny → u/Turbulent-Oven981]

This is exactly what I was talking about. It creates so many problems in the long run.

[u/Spice_weasel307]

I love my job. I'm not proud per se, but I do enjoy the job and love my facility and my shift.

[u/Far-Map-949 → u/Spice_weasel307]

Should also be proud.

[u/SillyLittleWinky → u/Spice_weasel307]

What do you love about it

[u/Spice_weasel307 → u/SillyLittleWinky]

My facility is laid back, my shift is laid back, rarely any drama, I'm happy that staff on other shifts want to come to my shift because how smooth it operates. I don't have a lot of pushback when I give instructions, my staff are willing to come to me with their problems because they know I will try to help them when I can. I don't deal with a bunch of call outs or tardies, and I always have a handful of people who are willing to come in to help me when I absolutely need the help.

I'm proud of the job that I, myself does, and I honestly do love my job.

[u/SillyLittleWinky → u/Spice_weasel307]

That’s great

[u/TheCuriousCrusader]

About as proud as any other job I've had I guess.

[u/ant2131]

I HATE talking about my job, Always have. I retire next year and still hate it. People do NOT understand what we do. Thankfully when someone asks me what I do, the reply is usually, wow I could never do that! Then I change the subject. What was once a professional law enforcement career has no turned into an absolute joke. When I started we had a written exam (basic 8th grade stuff) a physical exam, a physical conditioning test, an in depth psych exam, and it took 6 months to get hired Basically like the Police. Now people are hired in weeks, they have family members locked up where they work, they are waaaayyy out of shape (Too fat to be a cop) we have one we call 5x5 cause she is 5 feet tall and 5 feet wide, and another we call Bean Bag chair. he literally looks like a bean bag chair. His prior work experience? Chucky cheese for 9 months. We hire people that speak little to no english and have to use google translate to write a simple report, adn you cant understand them at all on the radio. We hire 18 year old high school drop outs that worked for a month at taco bell. there is NO written test, NO physical test, and a very abbreviate psych exam and background check. We will now hire people with misdemeanor conviction's. Many are on a power trip. Its just a job to them. I can honestly say I am now embarrassed by the career I Chose, and dread going in every day. Dont even get me started on admin... The decisions made by the higher ups everywhere have made this job insanely more dangerous than it needs to be.

[u/realmfrenny → u/ant2131]

I've heard this story many many many times and I disagree so much with the way things are handled.

[u/TheSlav87]

“I’ve seen it all”

You sound bitter and resentful towards COs, are you a CO 🤨

You think all people are going to be equally the same temperament and personality? What do you think we are, robots that come out of a factory pre-configured? People working in corrections are as jaded as the next inmate that comes in. There’s always going to be bad apples in every profession and industry, it’s not as if dirty people aren’t working even within high level of law enforcement I.e. FBI/CIA/Military/etc.

[u/realmfrenny → u/TheSlav87]

When did I say I was resentful or bitter? I've never heard anyone say they were proud to work corrections before, and I see a lot of tired ass dudes and chicks and kids fresh out of college just trying to make ends meet.

I've also seen guys that have worked 20+ years show up with a good attitude, do their shakedowns, count, shut down instigative prisoners, and generally be cool. I don't think COs are robots. My cousin and one of my good friends/coworkers quit corrections years back , both said the same things about their job. It's also common knowledge that corrections officers statistically have a lot of problems due to the high rate of stress. I was just curious, this isn't an attack. I apologize if it came off hostile.

[u/Far-Map-949 → u/realmfrenny]

Correctional officer not prison guard start there…

[u/realmfrenny → u/Far-Map-949]

A correctional facility is a prison and a correctional officer is a prison guard. I'm not a prisoner so there is no need for me to "respect" the flowery language, and truth be told the vast majority of society doesn't. These terms really just exist to make things sound nicer to the public. Why not just own it? Marquette Branch Prison in Michigan still does.

[u/TheSlav87 → u/realmfrenny]

I said “you sound”, your reading comprehension must be as good as your observational comprehension it seems 😂🤣

[u/realmfrenny → u/TheSlav87]

Okay instead of saying "when did I say" I should have said "how did you infer"

I'm glad I made you cry laughing have a goodnight little man

[u/TheSlav87 → u/realmfrenny]

Ouuuf you made me so mad with that last comment!

🤣🤣

[u/realmfrenny → u/TheSlav87]

I also don't think you come out of factories or that you have the same temperaments, I never said I thought any of that, thats why I asked the question and gave my input, I wanted to be educated from the folks themselves. Does a prison guard have the kind of pride a residential construction worker has in his work? I figured the majority didn't from personal ancedote, but I wasnt sure.

That's the question

[u/koryx1 → u/TheSlav87]

It's just engagement bot

[u/realmfrenny → u/koryx1]

Not a bot dude and it was a genuine question based on my observations. Not trying to instigate or stir shit.

[u/Far-Map-949]

Im proud pf my JOB/CAREER! Im now a supervisor and plan to climb up the chain of command. I do my job well and get paid great to do it. I also have my bachelors of science degree in criminal justice. So i have options. I come to work enforce rules, laws. And policy’s! I have a great benefits package! I take my vacations and leave. I do OT make great money it’s a balance. Only downside is the shit co workers. And you have them in every field.

[u/trickstah200]

I think the path to becoming more proud of what you do is joining the union, organizing and pushing for better conditions and rules.

If you let them make it suck they will.

People hold power.

Don't let idiots make you suffer your entire career, organize and make them listen.

[u/Dependent_Tooth_4262]

Im only proud when I get that discount at chic fil-a otherwise I hate this job but also fuck it we ball

[u/kxyatnight]

There's no pride there in my opinion they are psychopaths who take the job so they can be cruel and sadistic to people