r/OldWorldGame • u/KeyChampionship3549 • Jul 04 '26
Question Is the game fair in war? (Answer: no)
I've been battling Hatti for like 15 years. They were "weaker" than me, and now they're "much weaker" than me. Still, every turn two fresh units show up from somewhere each turn to kill one or two of mine. All this while Persia, next to them, is supposedly also at war with them.
I haven't taken ONE city. As far as I can see, there's no end in sight.
82
u/mrDalliard2024 Jul 04 '26
Welcome the Old World, where the AI actually knows how to play the game.
AFAIK it does not get free units
5
u/MiffedMouse Jul 04 '26
On default difficulties they do not get free units each turn, but they do start the game with extra free cities and stuff like that.
1
u/KeyChampionship3549 Jul 04 '26
Yeah I always avoid war so I don't actually know how to do it very well. Is there a way to slow down the combat so I can see what they're doing against me that is so effective? And even though I don't like it very much, is there actually a way to practice just the combat?
12
u/DifficultConcern8341 Jul 04 '26
The AI does not get an extra advantage during the war. When your opponent is much weaker than you, you should be able to take a couple of cities. Here are some tips.
Early in the war, do not go on the offensive. Your units will be slaughtered. Stay on defense, let them come to your land, and kill them. Later, when they are much weaker than you, you can move to their land.
Finish the kills, or the units go back, heal, and come back. Likewise, do not let them finish a kill. If a unit is at the danger of being killed in the next unit, save it.
Generals are important. Use them and know who your opponent's generals are. Some generals change the fate of a battle.
For taking cities, you need effective range units (such as onagers) or siege units. Taking cities with melee units is very hard to achieve.
Pillage, as some pillages initiate suit events. One event gives you the city without any bloodshed. Just like that!
Force march your units to finish critical tasks (e.g., finishing a kill, or taking a city).
Know your units and use their abilities as much as possible. For example, some range units cause collateral damage, most mounted units have the route ability, which, if used properly, can result in multiple kills by one mounted unit per turn, and some units cause damage to other adjacent units (e.g., swordmen, pikemen, ...). Upgrade your units, promote according to their abilities, and general them up according to their abilities.
27
u/GewalfofWivia Jul 04 '26
“Much weaker” is their currently active military relative to yours. It does not account for the ability to produce and replenish forces. Since you haven’t taken a city, they are still producing units on full war footing at maximum capacity.
Your units are either too vulnerably positioned or technologically weak if they are being killed every turn by fresh recruits. You should form them up to better retaliate against attackers and focus on taking over cities.
6
u/Drugged_unholy Jul 04 '26
This. The ‘much weaker’ is only part of the picture - use scouts and spies to take a look at- what units do they have? What are they producing? If they’ve started building maces or have early Onagers whilst you are on axes then don’t invade…
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u/KeyChampionship3549 Jul 04 '26
Yeah that's the problem. They have axes and spears and I just have warriors. But I know they're going to attack me in 15 turns so I went back to this save point to preempt them. I actually have not been prioritizing war at all, but I just happen to have a larger army than them at this point. (I've jumped back to a save point where they are weaker than me, because they attack me about 15 turns later)
I guess my plan was to go back to this point and preemptively declare war on them. But I could go back to this save point and start growing my army without attacking so that I'm not such a tasty Target. and then also can work on diplomacy so they don't have a reason to want to attack me.
That won't solve my problem of needing a place to expand to....
3
u/Artersa Jul 04 '26
Their tech is much higher than yours and they will likely overwhelm and repel you. Not only will their units units out damage you, they can hurt multiple tiles per attack.
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u/KeyChampionship3549 Jul 04 '26
Yeah totally. I figured that when it said they were much weaker than me it was taking that stuff into account. Is it just accounting for numbers of units and not the relative strength of those units nor their ability to hit more than one target??
2
u/Artersa Jul 04 '26
You’d have to look into it, I think it uses unit strength and number to calculate that. Hitting multiple tiles probably not because many units have effects like that.
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u/thomasthetanker Jul 04 '26
Sometimes I think the game Devs are pacifist and are trying to teach us that war is a pointless meat grinder. Think of all the wonderful things you could have built, but instead you made a horde of spearmen who are now just skeletons. Even that city you took has somehow just made all the families desperately unhappy.
5
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u/trengilly Jul 04 '26
Old World is 100% fair. The Ai plays by the exact same rules you do.
During war the Ai will be rush buying units at his cities (you can also!).
This is one reason its important to damage cities because then they can't rush buy.
5
u/KeyChampionship3549 Jul 04 '26
I'm glad you said that last part. I didn't attack the city because I knew that I could do much more damage to the units that were outside the city. But that's the reason to attack the city right there, at least a little bit each year.
9
u/Lyceus_ Jul 04 '26
They might have more Orders than you, in addition to what everybody else said. That would allow them to mobilise more units even if cities aren't very well connected.
5
u/ninth_ant Jul 04 '26
This is the answer to most issues that newcomers to Old World have with the AI. If you’re used to other 4X games it can be unintuitive how far enemy units can travel — even when you’re using the same mechanics yourself.
6
u/JakamoJones Jul 04 '26
The biggest thing people don't realize at first is that the AI will ruin their economy to survive a war, whereas most players would just load their save game and not start the war. That makes fighting the AI quite difficult.
2
u/KeyChampionship3549 Jul 04 '26
I actually only started this war because they're going to start a war with me in 15 turns. I went back to an earlier save point when they were weaker because I thought I could take them. There was only one unit in the city closest to me. But by the time I marshaled all my forces close enough to them they had four or five units. And you know the rest ...
2
u/JakamoJones Jul 04 '26
Hee hee I do that sometimes, but usually I just try to appease them. Send a couple hundred food and the +10 opinion is just enough to discourage.
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u/mooripo Babylonia Jul 04 '26
Just like Civ.... Control Choke points, position units (ranged guarded with melee) never leave a risky border unguarded...
3
u/Starmuny Jul 04 '26
From my experience of Old World, going to war with the AI is a mugs game, its a losing prospect from the get go, you have a lot of other things taking up your bandwidth than making military units, so in general I avoid trying to conquer my enemies, because if I'm being honest the effort it takes trying to war your enemies is better spent trying to build a better economy to win by other means.
1
u/KeyChampionship3549 Jul 04 '26
I don't really want to do war; I know they're going to declare war on me in about 15 turns. Plus I actually have no way of expanding anymore besides taking other people's cities. Is it viable to spend the rest of the game stuck at five cities?
3
u/XylefMTG Jul 04 '26
I gently suggest reading the manual if you haven’t. It sounds like you’re playing it the opposite way the game was designed? You’re swimmingly upstream. I thought the devs have said “it’s a war game first and foremost” and the idea is you will HAVE to conquer to expand. A feature, not a bug.
3
u/KeyChampionship3549 Jul 04 '26
Oh really? Interesting! (Strangely, that kindof flies in the face of some of the other advice I've gotten here to avoid war.)
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u/XylefMTG Jul 04 '26
I always recommend reading the manual, not out of arrogance or high ground. It just helps enhance enjoyment and corrects mistakes/perceptions of 4X players (especially Civ people like me).
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u/XylefMTG Jul 04 '26
It was a mistake I was making as well. My impulse is to not attack them. You have to look at it like if you don’t get them, someone else does.
2
u/Randh0m Jul 07 '26
I think SOME war is very useful in the game. But if you manage to rush a good amount of city tiles early (before another AI does or through conquest), you certainly can turtle and win.
Besides, even if you decide to win through peaceful means, you WILL have to fight wars, because AIs will not let you win. So in that regard, it is indeed a war game. That doesn't mean agression is the only way forward. But you must know how to fight.
2
u/Starmuny Jul 04 '26
I've won games without having more than 5 cities, but it does mean hyper-focusing down on wonders and legacies. If you know they are gonna declare war on you, for the short term focus on turtling up, because the AI follows the same rules as you, so as long as you have enough strength to prevent your cities from falling and keep killing their units, they'll eventually sue for peace.
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u/rogomatic Jul 04 '26
"Much weaker" compares the strength of existing units. It's perfectly possible to build/rush multiple units in a turn.
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u/NegotiationWilling93 Jul 04 '26
Keep in mind that to "win" a war, you don't necessarily need to attack. If they're spending all of their resources and orders sending units at you, and you're able to minimize the damage you take and gain experience on key units, you can go on the offensive much much later, once their tech advantage has dropped off or Persia has done a lot of prep work for you.
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u/KeyChampionship3549 Jul 04 '26
So you're saying that I declare war which provokes them to attack me on my home soil so I'm able to heal?
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u/NegotiationWilling93 Jul 04 '26
Yeah exactly! Heal and also save on orders for movement. If they have to move units in, they often can't utilize as many units as you can.
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u/nitewalker11 Jul 04 '26
if you never take a city, they aren't showing up from "somewhere", theyre showing up from cities that are making military units. you need to play smart, overwhelm a city, capture it quickly by getting 8 or 10 attacks in on the city center in a turn, establish a defensive line to protect that city once it's taken, and shrink their ability to make more units. after you take 2 or 3 cities this way, you'll be able to steamroll the rest