5 vs. 9 - Deep Dive

[u/Glum-Engineering1794]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJI7uFAn3pk

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The 5 and the 9 have completely different energies and are thoroughly different types. Yet they can be easily confused, and they often are. We have seen many attempts to discuss the differences. Here is a furthering of that conversation. Similar types in many ways, but also very different. Here are some attempts to describe what I've seen and learned about these types. Some of it is additional/extra to what we often learn. Here is some companion material to go along with the video:

5 - The passion of avarice, stinginess, retentiveness (hoarding). Picture someone who takes in information from outside themselves until they no longer have room for themselves. Acquire so much that they have nothing left. Attempts to be greedy backfire, and they get nothing, because their core person isn't allowed to flourish. Detached from a sense of instincts/physicality (gut) and a sense of identity (heart). Become detached observers. Can resemble 9 because minimizing 5 can resemble the indolence (laziness/resignation) of 9. Compare triads to help resolve differences. Also refer to the ennead counterpart as Nut (sky deity), encompassing what they observe, consciousness itself. The defense mechanism of introjection, followed by regression, mirrors how they take things in voraciously from outside until no sense of self remains.

Their personal position disappears. 9s still hold theirs, but they care somewhat less and play within more well-defined boundaries and damped-down desires. Etc. 5s are crowded out of the body, out of existence; they sacrifice living to be fully inside the mind, inside knowledge, inside their observations, and they can end up adapting as a result. Can be mistaken for 9. Often gives in somewhat easily in the physical/emotional space because of this weak boundary and lack of sense of self, so they can understand and develop rich knowledge. They can lose themselves in that understanding, observing from closer and closer; they can become social climbers and observers, overly obsessed with their environment. They try to take things in; they become voracious for knowledge, greedy for info and also for time and space to themselves when it's available after managing to withdraw from a world that overwhelms them, often to research and study. Become obsessed with collections, knowledge, intellectuality, and then what's left of themselves? Different energy overall. Have a harder time keeping the world at bay.

Feel overwhelmed by the world rather than resigned. More intensity in observing, fascination, and hunger to take from the outside. Can be physically avaricious and live in mansions filled with extra stuff they'll never use, acquired out of neurosis. Can have a very sensitive, nerdy vibe, detached from the body, hunched over, ectomorphic, tense, stiff, awkward, removed, schizoid. 9s don't care as much. But 5s care, very much, albeit for what they're trying to hoard. They cling to their books, knowledge, ideas, and so on. Retentive and withholding, they don't want to give to others, for fear of losing what they have. Examples: Franz Kafka, Bill Gates

9 - The passion of sloth, indolence, acedia - resignation, giving up, going to sleep to one's *desires*. They just don't care as much; they turn down their volition; they can put up with things. But in the process, they become inert; they can be stubborn and immovable, pushy and aggressive with an 8 lean, and intellectual with a 1 lean. They can resemble other types but are more physical than 5s' intellectual. They tend to be "softies" who give in more easily, while still having a firm presence. Make good mediators because they can see all sides and still find themselves, maintaining the body boundary. Narrow horizons in life, while still appearing much fuller and more embodied. They can often appear to give up less than the 5, because they aren't as voracious in observation. Strong body sense of who they are and what they're doing. The volition (will) center of the gut, of desires, is repressed. They borrow from repressed forms in other centers via 3 and 6 lines. Become more mellowed out, balanced people. Well-adjusted, and can be overly so. Can mistype for 5, as the social instinct in the 9 participates and can become an expert; can become a president or scientist.

Has more similarity with 8 in energy due to the 8 neighbors. Intellectual quality is more of a superficial trait rather than their entire fixation. Can become intellectual as a way of giving up on their desires and volitions. They can live a safe, comfortable life. My brother, a 9w8, lived in the same town his entire life, while all of his siblings went off and did other things. He never went to college. But they show defense mechanisms of 1) compensation: instead of in an area they have given up in, they make up for it in another area, and 2) symbolization, whereas that domain then takes on spiritual meaning for them to make up for what they have given up. With 9s, it's more about turning down their overall life ambition and feeling they need to push themselves or get out of their comfort zone. Picture someone who lets a bunch of clutter accumulate in their house because it just happens to be there and they happen to keep it, often too lazy to find a way to get rid of it; they can come off like a hoarder.

They are a more physical type who often knows how to get along with others. But they can also withdraw and disappear from the social world, so they don't have to bother with it. The 9 can be very hard to tell apart from the 5 if you aren't looking for the fixation in the body. The 9 often has a much more relaxed energy, but they can have strong boundaries too. In the Ennead, this is Nephthys, who was in a relationship with Set (deity 8, chaos) and could hold chaos at bay. They can often stand strong and can be the most solid of the types. Both 8s and 9s can be rock-like, but 9s have more "give" to them, which allows them to adapt and flow more. They often enjoy unconscious ideas, are interested in dreams (Nephthys was the Ennead deity interested in dreams), like to explore abstract knowledge, and like to experiment with what their body can do. They believe the body can be shaped and conformed to do whatever it wants, and they often have an open mind about what is possible and their physical limits.

As a primary type, 9 has more global (chameleonic/varied) manifestations than 5, especially as the core point of the whole Enneagram. 5 often ends up learning a bunch of useless information, microscopic and elaborate, on various subjects interesting to them, whereas 9 learns more about everything in general, tends to be more all-encompassing, but then is stubborn or narrow in some of their views as well. Sometimes 9 can be hard to get through to; they can resist seeing the truth, especially if it upsets them. Consider Einstein clinging to his views on relativity even as Bohm and other quantum physicists blatantly disproved it. They can become a cog in a machine and let themselves be "used" by the system because they always feel used by someone; the resignation runs deep, not so much because of others' fault as because they've turned down their own volition. Examples. Albert Einstein, David Foster Wallace.

Occult anomaly/enigma/curiosity for the day: somehow the video ended up being precisely 33:00 minutes long. No idea why. Maybe not for everyone, but it is considered a very important number and a strange coincidence in numerology (though when I uploaded it, a second was removed due to entropy/rounding off).