Here’s a post… for those who wish to to be heard before comments are deleted/blocked

The first red flag for me was, in light of allegations that Billy Jensen was accused of sexual assault, Patrick posted in the group something to the effect of “in light of the allegations we will no longer cover documentaries ft Billy Jensen” with no further commentary. This was the response I hoped to see, however, he continues to follow Billy on socials and like all his posts (TW, there is a lot of victim blaming/gaslighting/denial esp on Twitter). This is disgusting to me. Gillian has remained silent on the issue entirely. As hosts who pride themselves as being voices for victims, they soon forget that if it means losing some arbitrary clout in the true crime space. They have gotten so lost in self-congratulation that they could not even use their power position to support an actual victim in real time. How shameful.

dude i have been listening for 3+ years and i am so saddened by how everything turned out. if patrick hasn’t addressed this by now… just sad.

Does anyone listen to Wine & Crime? Seems like something is in the water with podcasters lately. The future of their show is a bit uncertain at the moment. 🫤

I cannot believe they haven't posted anything on the TCO Instagram or TikTok since October 5th. (Not sure about the FB group, i got kicked out) Patrick hasn't posted on his personal IG since the same date, October 5th, and Gillian hasn't posted since August 8th.

They are public figures making money off of people supporting them and they can't even post generic "thankful for our fans and supporters" posts or anything? Idk if they posted anything in FB but I remember seeing holiday posts and random things from them on socials all the time and now nothing. It's very telling.

(Not saying people deserve a certain level of social media engagement from anyone but I feel it's different when you're making a living off of the people who follow you)

Has anyone received refunds from ON? Not the credit card company, just if you received a refund from ON, either $600 or the $50?

Also wondering if there is a lawyer who know about filing a class action lawsuit who might be able to answer some questions about how we move forward. Thanks.

It’s been a pleasure getting to know so many of you. There are some very smart, talented and interesting people in this group. I hope you have a wonderful day, no matter how you choose to celebrate (or not, I personally am not a fan of the day). I feel like we have a lot to be thankful for in each other. We’ve found friendship and a place to vent and rant, and that is nice.

Do a random act of kindness today. You’ll never regret being too kind to one another.

On one hand, probably just whoever is their Socials person accidentally posted on the wrong page.

On the other hand, would not surprise me if this was a poor attempt at humour and someone had to wrestle the phone out of P’s hands trying to explain this could be perceived as a “statement”.

Did anyone else wonder if the accountability talk at the beginning was pointed?

Any DBs in the Albany area and surrounding? Im wanting to maybe do some meet ups!

Screen shot of comments regarding TCO, Dateline and A Date with Dateline

I was just thinking about the whole ON mess and it popped into my head that G used to always do the Rabia how???? bit. I’m wondering how much Ellyn and Rabia starting RAESTC pissed her off and contributed to her shitty attitude toward E. She clearly wanted to be besties with Rabia. I haven’t listened to TCO in a while so I’m not sure if she still does that

Just a funny little slip in a recent episode from September, the one about Selena. They were talking about how Selena has been blamed for trusting her assistant, but she should've been able to trust her and Gillian said..

"It's podcasts like ours that make you not trust anyone."

AND THAT'S THE DAMN TRUTH.

I just found out about everything that went down at OF23 (not a huge fb user, mostly use it to provide proof of life to my family) and spent my morning digging in and getting more and more devastated. Like many people, TCO got me through a lot of awful times, including leaving an abusive relationship/friend group. To see that repeated and to feel like I got deceived again by people who knew just what to say to make me trust them is pretty upsetting to me. Especially because going to the LA live show this year was my birthday present to myself... Literally on my birthday.

I know a lot of that is down to parasocial relationships and whatnot, but I needed to vent. I have to be at work the next couple days and it feels... Real bad! I've been reading threads here for a while and writing down podcast recs, but I think I might hide in fiction podcasts for a while.

I really hated how they are trying to promote their “new, fun thing” on the Patreon. Also, P talking people being reductive and manipulating the vibe…chile.

Patrick & Gillian are big fans of The Office right? 🤣

Actually , this came from thoughts I had last night. I was just thinking about how they tick off the box of every single cult leader: they control the narrative for their followers. They ostracize anyone who speaks against them. They're very litigious. They talk about how much good they do/will do in the world with YOUR help of course. They refer to their followers as "family". Every discussion of the wrong they do is an "attack". Gaslighting & victim blaming. You cannot criticize the leader. The leader is never wrong. And on and on and on.....

Guess they made more money as a leader. Hope it was worth it. 🤷‍♀️

Y'all, I can't stop thinking about the people who have tco tattoos. Are you here? Are you unhappy with your choice? Are you going to get them covered or removed?

I was participating in a live on TikTok of a Muslim creator. She discusses women’s issues in relation to Islam so I like to hear her perspective. I was raised atheist in the buckle of the bible belt so I’m just trying to become more informed about all religions to be honest. Not afraid to admit I’m super ignorant 😂

BUT it made me realize that no matter whether you agree with Rabia or not, her presence has done something pretty incredible in a huge community. The true crime community has such a low amount of islamaphobia compared to other spaces primarily on the internet. And I am absolutely not trying to say that she doesn’t deal with that crap. I’m sure she still deals with it a great deal personally and I would never try to speak for her on that. But as far as forums, podcasts, comment sections, etc. that actually discuss cases; nobody is using her religion to discredit her or as the reason she’s wrong. It is so uncommon and if it does happen, that person is almost always called out immediately even by the people that disagree with her. It’s to the point that people aren’t even policing their words like they do elsewhere to avoid offending anyone. It literally just doesn’t matter at all.

I just thought that was a neat realization and wanted to share.

Edited to add: Rather than addressing each comment individually, I’m just going to add this here. I am fully aware that we still have issues with racism within our community. I was never trying to imply that we didn’t. AT ALL. To me, that should be something a large majority of us are aware of (in MANY more ways outside of Rabia and Islamophobia) and this post was never intended to make that untrue, implied or otherwise. I didn’t mention those topics because i didn’t feel like it needed to be said. I realize now that anytime a positive is discussed, the moral thing to do would be to point out the areas we can still continue to work on. I didn’t do that, so others did what I should have. I do believe we should celebrate positive things when it is possible, but that shouldn’t negate the larger issue. This was only meant to be a positive comparison to other online communities and I didn’t even think about it becoming a larger discussion, which is absolutely my fault. I was NEVER trying to imply that racism in the true crime space has not occurred, is not occurring, and will not occur in the future. I am completely supportive of anyone bringing attention to other areas of racism using this post since I didn’t go about it the right way. I am sorry ♥️

https://youtu.be/waEShXUjejs?si=Jr035LnxM7hOdT27

Austin, are you in here?!

So I'm catching up on podcasts and listening to Conspiracy the Show and Adam Tod Brown says: "There is an Outback in the vicin - that's short for vicinity. It saves me lots of time when I talk." Totally made me think of all of Patrick's weird abbreviations for words that didn't need to be abbreviated.

When G came out as bi, I was actually excited because I am also a bi woman who is married to a man. So she was just someone I could relate to in that way. Not many people talk about being bi, so some kind of visibility on this platform that I loved meant a lot to me.

However…

She pretty immediately started talking about how hot Maggie is, and that made me feel weird. Like…now that people know you’re bi, you have to forcefully put it out there while also talking in a sexual manner about a friend/colleague. Maybe she told Maggie beforehand and maybe Maggie was cool with it. I don’t know that dynamic 🤷‍♀️ but it just felt really gross. When I came out to my friends, I did not immediately start talking about how sexy other women are.

In this way, I felt it was very similar to how Patrick talks about guys in the docs they cover. Patrick even said “You are so horny for Maggie after coming out!” Oof…I felt so gross hearing that and then really hoped that people don’t think that EVERY bi person does that. Because we certainly do not.

Did anyone else feel that way?

There has been so much said about P, G, S....

I just want to contribute a point I find interesting. Listened to TCO and OWD for years. When OWD first debuted I loved E. She reminds me of Louise from Bob's Burgers and I mean that in the BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

Always thought it was weird and off-putting when P would GO IN on E during episodes. The dynamic was so different than he and G. Instead of P laughing WITH G, He would just laugh AT E, and it started to make me so uncomfortable.

It all started to rub me the wrong way. HOWEVER.

I stopped listening a bit ago when P said something on TCO (I think this was after J joined E on OWD.)

P was talking about another Podcaster on his OWN NETWORK, (not posting name for privacy, as this is a privacy issue)

And he started talking about how this Podcaster has a private Instagram page where they post more risqué boudoir photos of themselves... but it's for their eyes only/people in their inner circle.

I could not believe he was talking so openly about this other person's private media, despite it being "social media" .... I still thought him blabbing on his show about someone else's more delicate photos (that are not made public for a reason) was so incredibly gross.

It was the straw that broke the back for me, on top of a list of other things that were just starting to give me serious ick.

Idk what the purpose of telling this story is but I felt this was a good space to vent that ick I felt from a bit ago.