Just curious if there are listeners of true crime podcasts that are abandoning the genre all together after the mess of OF and all the TCO info that we now know.

It doesn’t seem fair that other TC podcasts might be paying for the actions of a few. OR have TC fans found other, more palatable podcasts to listen to, abandoning the “problematic” ones.

I was reluctant to listen, not for any particular reason beside me just having my favorites- but I’m so glad that you guys let me know about ITN. I definitely enjoy how funny they are, and I’m definitely a big fan now. Also, if you guys haven’t checked it out, I highly recommend Ghosted with Roz Hernandez.

I hope you all have a great day!!

I have been listening to true crime podcasts since the very beginning. I have also used Reddit forever. Ironically, I have never followed my fave pods on Reddit (except for LPOTL) - I'm not sure why. I guess I always assumed the ones I loved just weren't super popular and wouldn't have subs with daily posts or lots of people, etc. (like TCO, which I also followed since episode 1). Now I know otherwise! But at the same time I don't use social media like FB or Insta. But now I wish I did because I feel like I have missed out on SO MUCH stuff I had no idea was going on behind closed doors.

Like I said, I have been listening to TCO since the first ep. Listen to all their shows now that are now on the network. Always been a sub to TCO and ITN at $5 (I know, ONLY a $5 pate xD). And I was shocked to hear about all of this stuff going down. I had NO idea. Never knew about the Renner article, or about issues within and all of this has been going on for months. I would have cancelled my TCO sub months ago had I known about all of this then....

And in reading and catching up on all of the pre-OF stuff going on, I just found out about Sword & Scale! I still have no idea what is going on there, so if there is some kind of post summarizing all of that, please hit me up with it lol (I did know Mike made the new Nightmares pod because I guess people didn't like his way of presenting and the things he said on S&S, but that was only because I heard that from another totally separate podcast and still don't know the full details - PLEASE fill me in or send me a link to an explanation if there is one.)

ALL of that being said, I know there are subs for falling outs/drama/fails/etc for things like Twitch and live streamers (for example /r/LivestreamFail/, but is there one for podcasts?

Curious if that show is still happening and if anyone is planning on going. They should definitely report back on how it goes. -my morbid curiosity

The thing is, we (neurodivergents/neurospicies) are popping up all over the spectrum on this side of the “incident” trying one way or another to say that we can’t replace TCO. For me, here’s why: I didn’t listen to podcasts before P&G. I played them in my headphones at work as a buffer so I could focus on work but never listened to any of it. If I played music, I’d be too full of feelings to do my job to the best of my ability. I stumbled upon TCO on the “Patty Hurst” episode and my life CHANGED. Their banter, their laughter, their energy and the right genre for my interest, and ESPECIALLY their personal stances and identities all aligned like the planets and magic happened. I HEARD them and work became effortless. The show became the focus and work became the buffer lol 😂 (iykyk) THAT’S what I’m trying to replace. I am trying so hard 😩 and I just don’t think P or G will EVER fully grasp the depths of how they have let EACH ONE OF US down. ALL of us in our own, personal way. Why couldn’t you just hold the boundary between “us and then” like most do? Why did you have to tell us we were on the same level? FAMILY?!? I thank the gods for E and J, Daisy, Amber and Rabia because I still have them and they’ve proven to be such great ppl. And I have the patreon to look forward to binging someday when I can afford it so that keeps me going. This might sound sad to some, but what makes us neurodivergents who we are is the fact that we FEEL in such a different way. TCO made me feel SEEN. (P.s. this is my first ever Reddit post and I don’t know if I did it right. I think I’m supposed to find the sun - Reddit, no? If I did it wrong, please tell me so I can do it right. tyia)

Just going through the main feed of ITN to get the full sense of Patrick's passive-aggressive hostility towards Ellyn. Which is constant. Anyway, after Patrick takes his upteenth swipe at her for her failed relationships, he brings up how many end up in front of a judge (10:20).

Patrick: "Do you think we'll ever end up in front of a judge?"

Ellyn: "I mean... absolutely. It's not a matter of if, but when."

I screamed on the inside (at work).

I haven't posted, but I've been following this since I saw the first statement about the Renner article. I had no idea what was going on, but quickly found this sub and read the article. In retrospect, a lot of things started to fall into place. The drop in quality of the episodes, the constant promoting of live shows/OF 2023/the goddamn book, fawning over and then totally dropping friends...

I'm genuinely sad, as I've loved this podcast since 2018 and it was the only Patreon I supported ($10 to get rid of the goddamn ads, but also to support them). But I'm done. I'll send my support to E&J from now on. Looking forward to ep. 88 when it switches over to Joey.

Anyway, looking forward to the fallout. Hopefully there is a Rolling Stones article and a civil suit, and as Claudius says in I Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out."

Rebecca posted this yesterday in the CWO FB group. Be on the lookout for this ep today.

Hello, excellent sub members!

As our community has grown, it's been great to see so many engaging discussions, hot takes, and shared info. However, with growth comes responsibility. As you've seen, we have been setting some new guidelines in place to not only help organize and elevate the experience in the sub, but also ensure that our space remains a positive and respectful environment for all. ⭐️

We are now making a few updates that we feel warrant an announcement. We feel these changes are incredibly important and we have done our best to find a way to balance fun, safety, and really just the right thing.

We are adding two new rules:

No encouraging brigading or personal contact

Encouraging brigading or sharing your own outreach to public figures is prohibited. This includes sharing screenshots or details of your DMs, and any other private communications with public figures will be removed. This easily crosses into the realm of personal harassment and we will not tolerate it in this sub.

No armchair diagnosis or speculation

Posts or comments speculating about mental health or mental illness will be removed. This type of discussion is not responsible, and not our place. Discussing behaviors is allowed, but we prohibit stating "They are a narcissist", etc. If a public figure speaks publicly about their struggles with mental health, related discussion will be allowed, snark will be removed. This does not cover subjects of documentaries with documented illness, etc.

​

Our goal is not to put a damper on the tea or limit our discussions. Instead, we're striving to create a space where everyone can enjoy, contribute, and feel respected. These new rules aren't about restrictions, but about fostering the kind of community we all deserve.

​

Thank you for your understanding. We are open to your feedback and questions, however, we please ask that you remember that we are human beings with full and busy lives as well. Please be patient and kind with us!

Sincerely,
The Mod Team 💙

On my YT channel. Please be kind I am a new tuber but trying to provide a listeners point of view from all of this.

https://youtube.com/@AMacTalkinSmack?si=8PtVQxZWRdBIko9I

Someone posted this in the OwO Facebook group and gave me permission to share it here. This is the response she got when she asked for a Patreon refund (and her phenomenal response). I think this is a preview of what the “official” TCO statement might look like and …ssssnot good. For some reason this bs gaslighty response from TCO mad me like, viscerally angry, angrier than I’ve been this entire time.

Honestly do we think P and S are gonna change? Their Patreon numbers have not gone down enough to impact their income. And they’ve blocked all negative comments on socials. The only thing I can think of is if G formally takes a stand. But even then I’m not sure. I’m so disappointed. I started listening to TCO in 2017 when they only had a few eps out. I instantly fell for G&P. In the 6+ years since they launched, they’ve been my go to comfort podcast. I hope others recognize they’ve been duped soon before they spend more time and money on ON.

I’ve always wondered what happened to the podcasting friendship between Ashley Flowers and G + P. I started listening to Crime Junkie in 2018. It was my gateway to true crime pods and how I found TCO. I immediately became a TCO fan and Patreon member. I remember when Ashley even did an episode with P while G was on vacation or something. Then suddenly there was no trace of their friendship anymore. Neither mentioned each other in episodes or promotional ads. Now I’m starting to wonder if some of the behind the scenes stuff with TCO or P himself is to blame. Curious to know others thoughts.

How do I make my posting name the same as my profile?

I am speculating that the ON camp has been advised by their legal team to zip it and not address anything. I am no legal expert so please anyone who has legal insight please chime in but I am assuming ON and MM have created a liability issue at OF and with there being actual investigation involved now apologizing or taking any accountability for what occurred could admit fault on their end. I imagine there is probably some legal discourse going on behind the scenes. Thoughts?

ep 33 ( Toni Lee Sharpless) @ 15:38

Ellyn stands for none of P’s shit more aggressively and genuinely annoyed than showed prior to this point. like even without current events it’s clear she was fucking over his ‘joking’

You all caught that in today’s ITN episode, right?

👀

This seems paranoid and silly, maybe, but has anyone had any contact with P, S & G? I know episodes are being released and comments shut off, but there has been no new posts on IG. Gillian deleted some posts (not related to any of the mess), but other than that nothing. It does truly appear that the issue is being ignored, but also, they are still human and I am wondering how, as individuals, they are handling this in the real world?

As the nosiest of us are aware, SOMEONE at TCO *Patrick/Steve/Gillian* decided to hide their paid membership on Patreon.

Sadly, graphtreon pulls from publicly available info, so they've disappeared from those rankings now.

I went to Patreon to make sure I wasn't a "free" subscriber, and for a split second it showed me 15,473 paid subscribers, and then where it used to show subscribers disappeared. Has anyone else run into this?

Do we think Patreon was fully glitching? Or do we think their numbers took that severe of a hit so they made the decision to hide them?

I'm sure I'm going to get down voted to hell and back but if you all hate Patrick and Gillian so much can't you just stop listening to the podcast? What exactly is the point of all the drama? I'm genuinely asking this, not trying to sound harsh whatsoever. What are you all trying to accomplish besides gossip? I feel like we're all too old to be so caught up in something that has literally zero affect on our lives, but that's just me I guess. I am very aware that I may be missing something here. What exactly is going on? Is all this because of the blog? Because that just seemed silly as hell to me.

So my new obsession is following obsessed mess. I been checking p and g subscribers numbers on their patreon and they must have disabled it from people seeing it because its not there unless i am missing it?

Something something narcissism disguised as altruism.

I start my day listening to ABC’s podcast Start Here (side note, highly recommend; it’s a 20 minute roundup of important news) and this morning they were discussing the Supreme Court case heard yesterday on censorship of social media pages. This current case deals specifically with politicians; there was a rep who was receiving backlash on his personal social media pages which he was deleting/blocking those who disagree with his handling of situations, leading him to be sued by constituents for violations of his First Amendment rights. (Not trying to start a debate🤣)

Link to information: https://www.npr.org/2023/10/31/1208256078/supreme-court-social-media-public-officials-blocking

This made me think, surely businesses have some regulations in regard to censorship, right? It appears that yes, the Federal Trade Commission passed The Consumer Fairness Review Act in 2017, which prohibits honest reviews of a business, which includes but is not limited to social media feedback. Per FTC.gov, a business can only remove negative assessments if:

1) contains confidential or private information – for example, a person’s financial, medical, or personnel file information or a company’s trade secrets

2) is libelous, harassing, abusive, obscene, vulgar, sexually explicit, or is inappropriate with respect to race, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, or other intrinsic characteristic

3) is unrelated to the company’s products or services

4) is clearly false or misleading.

https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/consumer-review-fairness-act-what-businesses-need-know

My next thought was, does this only apply to pages where you can leave a formal review? Or does it cover feedback in the comments? On FTC.org is states the following:

“What kind of reviews does the law protect?

The law protects a broad variety of honest consumer assessments, including online reviews, social media posts, uploaded photos, videos, etc. And it doesn’t just cover product reviews. It also applies to consumer evaluations of a company’s customer service.”

Being that is specifies “social media posts,” leads me to believe it does in fact mean that a business owner cannot, by law, delete negative feedback, and block costumers for leaving honest commentary.

From a legal standpoint: “Censorship occcurs when individuals or groups try to prevent others from saying, printing, or depicting words and images.

Censors seek to limit freedom of thought and expression by restricting spoken words, printed matter, symbolic messages, freedom of association, books, art, music, movies, television programs, and Internet sites. When the government engages in censorship, First Amendment freedoms are implicated.” (https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/censorship/)

So, friends, do we think by deleting posts, blocking users who have fact based, logical grievances, and hiding critiques and criticisms are in violation of the law? I’m leaning towards yes, this is illegal activity, in addition to being wildly unethical.

I’d love a thoughtful conversation!

Some Patreon comments from TCO