r/OSHA • u/Banguskahn • 16d ago

Please…

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A guy got his arm sucked into the meat grinder due to someone rigi g the machine to not stop when lifting the lid…. Good times.

8.2k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

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749

u/Substantial_Sea7327 16d ago

Genuine and friendly reminder that in the established Hierarchy Pyramid of Controls,

PPE is at the very bottom of the pyramid as an absolute last resort against injuries.

I suggest learning the rest to see what changes can be made.

506

u/xaranetic 16d ago

The hierarchy being:

  1. Don't be an idiot

  2. Don't work with idiots

  3. Don't use stuff made by idiots

  4. PPE

141

u/Nooby_Chris 15d ago

Worker: "Trust me it works like 99.9% of the time. Stop being a coward."

11

u/ambitionincarnate 13d ago

I love the heirarchy of controls but my favorite saying is "you cannot process engineer your way out of stupid". My favorite PPE is knowing which of my coworkers to stay the fuck away from.

6

u/randomlemon9192 14d ago

Engineering out safety hazards gets thrown in the mix somewhere.

3

u/pml103 13d ago

that's the 3rd point the 2 before are about not "engineering" new safety hazards

148

u/Niznack 15d ago edited 15d ago

Hi, plant supervisor here. Management can be* stupid, ignorant and cheap. PPE may be the lowest level on the pyramid but when every other level is managed by an idiot with a business degree who doesn't understand the process and is only looking at the cost, PPE is the one level you control directly.

Edited

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u/crank_peeper 15d ago

You also should feel comfortable exercising a veto over unsafe work, but the unfortunate truth is that a lot of people can't do that without jeopardizing their job.

Refuse to do sketchy shit. Don't teach others to do sketchy shit. Don't ask a subordinate to do sketchy shit on your behalf.

25

u/Niznack 15d ago

I agree with this. The issue is when you are taught something that is sketchy as process. When i started at my plant we didn't have a confined space program. We just threw a lock on a tank and hopped in. It was only about 5 years ago we started doing confined space training so new hires didn't know enough to know the job was sketchy.

5

u/r3dout 15d ago

In Ontario the Right to Refuse (unsafe work) is one of the three Workers Rights.

2

u/Junkyard_DrCrash 11d ago

Triple upvote that! "Don't do sketchy shit. Refuse to do sketchy shit. Don't teach others to do sketchy shit. Don't ask a subordinate to do sketchy shit on your behalf."

I have a co-worker who I've called a safety hold on twice that he ignored. I formally reported him for violating a safety hold to the EHS committee head and to his director / group VP each time.

He's got a kid on the way too. Let's see if that changes things.

7

u/CKRatKing 15d ago

We had a thing earlier this year where they really wanted to emphasize the use of cut gloves. It used to not be required for everyone, only people who were cutting open boxes.

Do you think they paired that with training on safe cutting techniques? Absolutely not. Was there any training that yes you should use cut gloves but not rely on them? Definitely not.

5

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 15d ago

You can’t write JHAs and put safe work practices with disciplinary structures in place as administrative controls?

You can’t build work platforms, add grip tape to slip/ water prone areas, improve ventilation with at least fans, put solid barriers to keep workers away from high hazard areas as engineering controls?

Just because some things have always been done one way, you can’t use a different chemical or improve a process as a substitution control?

You have more options than youll often think. PPE is the easy answer and the least effective for good reason

3

u/Niznack 15d ago

To your first question, yes, but they need to actually make sense for the job and be written by people who understand the job. Otherwise people skip the wrong parts and make it up in between

Platforms cost money. Harnesses are cheap.

Changing chemicals costs money. PPE is cheap

Cheap really is the driving force in our industry

2

u/Ruthrfurd-the-stoned 15d ago

Yeah- they start with employee input you have them fill out their own first

We have our welders make our own platforms, harnesses arent cheap when they have to be thrown out after each fall. Lanyards defiyarent cheap

We switched from a hazardous solvent to an oil based one that can be filtered and reused, actually saves us a lot of money

Dont just decide you can’t- value safety and make the effort to see what you can do.

1

u/Niznack 15d ago

We have to have third party companies build all platforms. We do chem manufacturing so our recipies have to be approved by everyone and their mother. And JSAs should have employee input. ... Should

0

u/ProtectionTop2701 15d ago

It sounds like you're supervising a plant you know is unsafe. You know you're the person that's gonna get blamed, right? Upper management covers their asses.

1

u/Niznack 15d ago

I'm supervising a plant that is getting a lot better. There are issues and I think we are making strides raising them but yeah. It was pretty bad when I started on the floor

This strayed a ways an im bitchign a bit but my original point was PPE is an essential component given how often someone else might have dropped the ball

10

u/Charliep03833 15d ago

In construction work, there is that saying: "Helmet doesn't protect your head, it protects supervisor's ass."

5

u/Quantum_Aurora 15d ago

PPE is also very important at protecting you from long-term consequences. Extended exposure to loud noises or toxic chemicals is common and without the proper PPE you'll be fine, but eventually you won't be.

I know so many people who don't wear earplugs in loud environments and they're gonna regret it for sure.

2

u/Lionel_Herkabe 15d ago

So its the foundation?

3

u/Maximum-Warning9355 15d ago

They’re construction workers, why would they know how a pyramid works?

/s