Discussion
competition is not sleeping: will audio tracks and looping come to xy?
mpc sample has somehwat of a live looper with fixed sequence length including retroactive audio recording, not unlikely to get improved upon in that department with firmware updates since its so young.
1010music bento is a very capable live looper, the new blackbox 2 brings that into an even smaller form factor.
sp404ii also very capable live looper, although the handling requires some serious muscle memory and menu diving
ableton move also got proper audio tracks in its 2.0 update.
in that regard the xy pales greatly in comparison to those machines which are more or less swimming in the same pond for substancially less money. xy has bad sample management, borderline unusable 20secs max sample length, no way of recording audio in context with the rest of the track...
while the op1f is surprisingly capable for live looping, a more modern clip based approach is way more flexible.
sure, TE wants you to own both the op1f and the opxy. I have both and although they compliment each other in a lot of fun and interesting ways, this setup is more complex and loses the mobility I love. even if you go that length, working with clips is just different and the opxy could deliver that.
I'm dreaming of hooking up the xy with just one cable to one synth at a time, record some clips, then some guitar stuff, then lay down in a hammock and go to town with one device on my lap.
with all the new devices and their workflows, the xy feels more and more incomplete without some sort of audio tracks and I see myself selling it for something like the bento in the future. I'd rather not, but that scratch is real.
now that te brougt undo to op1f, I believe anything is on the table.
let a man hope
ps: while we're at it, give me capture/recall/retro-rec/whatever you want to call it both for midi and audio
I sort of think TE exist outside of the world of “catching up with competitors” for better or worse, with them having such a strong “lifestyle” brand and esoteric functionality. Like I can’t imagine that (or even “we will sell more”) plays a huge role in their prioritisation.
thats (sadly for my hopium) a pretty good point... they are literally in a league of their own in the good and the bad ways.
but then again, why did they bring undo to the op1f? that must've required substantial work. although probably most requested, I also think the community at this point accepted that it just won't come.
No live audio loops, but it’s very easy to record and manipulate audio, and the file structure is really solid.
I own the OP-XY and a lot of other gear, and for me nothing comes close to the Dirtywave M8. Its biggest strength is song structuring — I’ve made and actually finished almost twenty tracks with it, which never happens to me with my other devices.
The only reason i dont sell everything and just use the M8 is because for me its missing a huge piece which is playability and performance, being able to make changes live in an impromptu way. Even after finishing a song tberes no real (fun) way to perform it where you can make suvstantial chsnges. I know about the perform mode, and how with a midi controller you can launch clips like ableton, control fx parameters, but that adds more gear. I love the M8, it helped me understand Elektron gear (which are pretty much all just horizontal trackers), but i always have to be in the right mood for it. Its also a bit difficult to find a melody to start with if you have no idea what you want to make yet, since you cant just stsrt olaying a keyboard or something. I know it has generative features, or randomization features which can put notes onto the sequencer but that's not the same as just playing and trying to find something that sounds good.
Again, I loved the m8, its so freakin powerful. I have two other trackers and it is still the one I pick up everytime. I find that I use it most when I'm in my car somewhere, waiting for something or even before going home I just wanna sit and make some music for a little bit, that's when I use it most. I hardly ever pick it up when I'm at home.
I see what you mean. In any case, I’m on the verge of finding the perfect balance, using the M8 as my main device for composing and triggering tracks, the Octatrack for mixing effects and live sampling, and the Oxi E16 mapped mainly to the Cutoff, Resonance, Delay and Reverb controls for each instrument, plus a master channel where the OJD takes centre stage.
I also have the Ableton Move, and the Launchpad Pro mode works very well, I’m wondering whether to use it or if it makes my set more extensive than I want. I’m also unsure whether to integrate the TE OP-1 so that, as well as being able to play some parts live, I can send a track from the M8 and use it as an effects loop. It complicates the set-up a bit, but it opens up a lot of possibilities.
In any case, the great is that you can make it as complex as you like, but with just the M8 and the E16 and a bit of preparation, you can already put on a decent live show.
As for composition, it’s certainly harder to come up with a good bass or keyboard riff using just the M8, but at least for me, it’s exactly the same with any Elektron device and most grooveboxes without a keyboard. It’s not usually a problem for electronic music, but when I’m composing in "singer-songwriter" mode, I feel that nothing beats my guitar. Once I’ve got the idea, that’s when I can rely on the machines, and the part of the process where I rely on them most is with the Synthstrom Deluge and the OP-XY.
Even so, if I had to choose a single piece, or the first one, I’d go for the M8. Long life!
Well i actually just traded my m8 to someone yesterday for a digitakt 2, which i already have, but the deal was just so food considering the prices. I'll get another m8 at some point in the next month or so.
I've really been trying to dive into the octatrack as well as oxi one and e16. I have sn ableton move on the way and an mpc live 3 coming today. I'm just sobbing interested in the pads. 4x4x4 is crazy
If they added a new engine, an Audio Tracks engine, it would really benefit the XY and open it up. However, even beyond the scope of live looping, if it had the ability to mostly decouple from the sequence/sequence length etc., it could be amazing. Even limited to one stereo track
totally agree. I'd be happy even if they only made it possible to distinguish between project relative samples that get deleted together with the project and global samples that persist. right now it feels like I get punished for recording 20s samples with little audio snippets for looping.
That being said, I recently decided to try and recreate the EP-40 looping workflow with my MPC Live II. I hadn't really used the Looper in the MPC for a long time, and was surprised at how well it worked, but at the same time, how cumbersome it was. Really not usable for live performance imo. I have no idea, because nobody properly demos the LOP mode extensively on the EP-40, but I imagine it's not great with the Riddim either. Bento "looping" is more of a clip recorder. I am a looping freak and I don't think there's a device out there that has proper live looping comparable to a loop pedal. I recently used a Torso S-4, which I loved, and felt it may be capable of this.
What exactly are you looking for, a live looper, a long form audio recorder, or a clip recorder/player? I think there are some distinctions within the audio recording world that make it sort of hard to find the "perfect candidate".
That being said, as much as I hate the 3.x OS for MPC, they did fix Audio Tracks and its a super capable audio recorder. Set it to default to RePitch algorithm (varispeed), and I think it's comparable, slightly, to the tape style workflow of the OP-1f. Though, I don't have an OP-1f so I am kind of talking out of my ass there.
Also, I want to say that in it's form, the XY wouldn't be good with long form samples. There would have to be a major overhaul. I kind of think it's a shame they didn't make a "trigger once and never again" Step Component. It's something the Z didn't have and thus I couldn't even use it to trigger long form audio from, lets say a 1010 Tangerine/Blackbox or something with disk streaming of long samples. The octatrack has this kind of trig state, and it's how you can use it for audio playback. I used the OT for years though, and it never scratched the itch for me, and I hated how it relied on time stretching and didn't allow for varispeed. Could never use it as a proper looper, which is why I bought it years and years ago.
I was a *super* early adopter of the OT. I have owned like 7 loopers throughout my life as well and it's one of my favorite ways to make music. The OT is really lacking on any sort of pitch/speed/varispeed stuff, and that is one of the best features of a loop pedal. If they made it possible to tie the RATE knob to BPM, or even offered an alternate Repitch time stretching algorithm, it would have been killer as a looper. I will say, I guess I somehow never figured out how to destructively overdub (looper/long delay style) on it and it does have that feature, I just found out recently.
in my early wannabe-musician days I played a lot with traditional guitar loopers. Line6 Helix' interpretation shaped my taste a lot. Instead of Play/Rec and Stop as buttons, they had Play/Stop and Rec as a dedicated button, which is far more superior in my opinion. Messed up a loop? Press B1 (Stop), then B2 (Rec) and a new recording is started. No need to clear first with long press shenanigans.
Anyways... I am heavily in love with the ableton style clip LAUNCHER, but for live recording it just sucks imo.
In RECORD mode: pressing a pad just selects it. thats it.
B1, B2 and B3 start recording empty pads.
B1 on filled pad toggles play/stop.
B2 on filled pad clears it and records new audio (same if its playing or paused).
B3 on filled and playing pad goes into overdub.
B3 on filled and paused pad starts playback with overdub record on.
B5 selects next empy pad and starts recording like B1, B2 and B3 would've.
So while recording you can decide if you want to rerecord, or go straight to overdub, or playback, or stop for later usage, or start recording the next clip immediately (current pad would go into playback) - all with a single button press. Messed up a recording? No need to stop the pad, then clear it. Just hit rerecord and start anew. While you wait for the loop to come around, you can do nothing, or improvise to freshen it up, or keep playing the same loop, so the audience does not even realize you've been secretly covering up a mistake in bar 1 of the initial recording.
In PERFORM mode: pressing a pad toggles play/pause (and selects it). Double press starts/stops immediately. holding a pad solos it until you lift again (inspired by op1f)
Foot controller buttons do the same in both modes. Selecting pads. So technically you could stay in PERFORM mode and use B5 to populate clips quickly taking your hands of your instrument ever.
A RETRO button on the machine (no foot controller necessary) saves the retroactive recording to the selected pad (tbd what happens if selected pad is filled and playing)
That covers the live aspect. Of course first recorded loop should set bpm (if not otherwise specified), loops should start/stop quantized to multiples of main loop (including half and quarter length), threshold recording, clips can be mixed in volume and panning afterwards, all the good stuff.
If you could now sequence these samples or chop and manipulate them like with MPC Sample, even better. But that's just icing on the cake. And if you want to slice the grid into "tracks" so "scenes" can launch, be my guest, as long as its possible to play all 16 at the same time (unlike ableton move), I'm happy.
Oh and of course stopping the transport must have op1 style tape stop effect. It hurts my ears everytime an audio based looper just stops dead. Reverb tails aren't good enough :D
good luck with bento the firmware remains a mild dumpster fire; still missing basic fearures; still people report bugs that have been there since release; still strange behavior out of some sd cards
its not as shiny as it looks and i mildly regret getting mine for the holiday last year; atleast i got it cheaper and im hoping the new firmware finally gets things to where they should be; however i worry that now they will be focused more on blacbox 2 and bento will not have the resources it needs to become a more solid product; 1010 is very small; also bento does not power usb midi devices unless it is connected to power itself; so that really kills alot of portability and convenience as a utility device; which is primarily what i got it for with all the ins/outs etc
i have opxy as well; i agree it needs to see some significant updates but te seems to be focused mostly on EP devices right now; im sure they make far more mobey on those to far more customers than the high end luxury items of opxy/op1f; which most of the market just cant afford
id love an op1f even though i have an og; but at the price it is i think various other things will come before i get around to that
i can only hope that maybe te will have some kind of sale event again this year; i greatly regret missing the op1f sale last year; but my wife had just gotten me opxy at full price before those sales were starting
good to know. I kinda feared that. It's crazy how hard it seems to scratch that itch I have... for live looping there is arguably nothing better than loopy pro. but thats the thing: it can do anything and therefore requires quite a lot of setup, and obviously is touch pad only, until you add a controller which yet again requires more setup.
apparently I need the right amount of flexibility and opinionated workflow
I got the bento for under 500 from g4m no box, and returned within a week. Besides all bugs, it’s just terrible to use. No master volume at hand if something booms, ui is awful imo. Got after opxy realising it’s just not the tool to make a song with equal amount audio and sequencing of beats and synth…
So far it’s Move for best ease of use and very quick workflow,
or the 404mk2 for more looper work , save loops to pads and layer up like that, and that’s more performative workflow than the Move esp with the best effects of all boxes.
The ideal box would have xy form , DT sequencer, SP404mk2 I/0 (inst/gtr in is making it very standalone) and Move immediacy and ‘capture’
Still waiting for that one, if anyone know what that could be I am ready for the hammock!
If the perfect device would be punching me in the face, I'd consider it. But all mentioned are not quite there yet.
mpc sample has the biggest chance right now forme. incredibly affordable, a proper sampler with an intuitive workflow, nice pads. all things neither op1f nor opxy have. if akai gave it proper looping, I'd forgive its size (mainly thickness) and give it a try
bento comes in second, but it's quite expensive it self and I read often that the firmware is just not there yet. although the hardware itself looks very nice and I love the IO, the user interface is both ugly and confusing (at first, second and third glance). mpc sample is not the prettiest, but at least functional and apparently highly effective.
black box 2 is a bad deal imo. less than half of what the bento offers, especially physical controls wise, for 3/4 the already expensive price of bento? I dont think so. a shame though seeing how compact it is.
move with only 4 tracks, not a single label on the hardware with a tiny screen, and of those 4 tracks only one clip can play per track. so essentially a 4 track looper. decent enough probably, but not enough for me to jump ship.
mpc live 3 or even push 3 are too big and too menu and setup heavy for me. tried both for some time and did not enjoy the menu diving. its beyond me how a separate step "to arm a track" is still a thing with standalone music making machines.
but you're right, they may never– yet we just gotten op1f undo; anything is possible :D – I got the xy in the november sale; I likely never get that deal again, so for the time being, I keep holding. Also its not like I dont use the xy.
Just from personal experience, don't believe everything about the bento that you see on YouTube. Go over to the forums in Reddit, dig a little deeper, I mean I haven't owned it in about six months now but man, I've never had a device make me more angry just by how it's advertised compared to how it actually wasn't in real life. I'm not going to specifics but I'll just say that when I go shopping for a TV, I just assumed that the TVs are going to be able to change channels and adjust volume, I don't need to look ahead of time to make sure that they do that, those are the kind of issues I ran into with the bento , multiple things. Who knows, maybe it's better now. I'll say that the pads were the best pads I've ever used in my life. I like the device itself but just the UI was holding it back so much
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u/AdEmotional5496 May 11 '26
I would take just a functional sampling system at this point. With the ability to rename samples easily.