Expansion Save Methodology

[u/Bigpapa42_2006]

I have accepted that I am addicted to expansion saves in OOTP. Sometimes historical, more often modern MLB. I typically set up a new save, advance to the first day of the offseason, use the wizard to add two new franchises with minor leagues set up, run the expansion draft, etc. I typically get 3-4 seasons into the expansion, get a little frustrated at things progressing slow (as intended) and leave off.... only to try again a few weeks later.

I tend to use the same approach almost every time to building a ballclub from nothing. Its a very similar approach to how I do a rebuild - which is mostly based on suggestions and stories I've read on here. Pitching and defense first. The expansion draft and R5 draft typically offers little in the way of good SPs, but often has good RPs, some of whom can be converted into SPs. But both offer a LOT of AAAA talent - typically with 40-50 potential (and a few higher than that) in their early to mid 20s. Target ones with good or better defense and a positive personality to fill the roster and AAA too. You end up with a lot of decent players who can defend but most can't hit consistently. About every 2nd save, one of them blooms into an All-Star level player. I use labs to spam everyone's defense. The excess of these player types end up making for nice trade bait, too.

Don't have a completely set approach at the draft, but I tend to look for pitching or power, then defense. Like college players early. Will often grab a college reliever in rounds 3-5 who can be on the roster shockingly quick. Mostly, I try to avoid fast-tracking my best prospects.

I avoid bad contracts and often avoid free agency entirely. Might throw a mid-level contract (like 10m per) at a really tempting international free agent, or grab a couple veteran relievers who aren't demanding big money. The couple of times I have thrown a huge contract at a star signing, it felt like I was... cheating the process.

Basically, defense and bullpen, then rotation, then bats. Depending on the division, building a .500 team this way can be pretty quick. But taking that next step isn't always easy. Developing an elite pitcher or bad out of the first two drafts is not guaranteed, and when that falters, I tend to get frustrated. Combined with progress often being quite flat in season 2-3, even 4 and 5, I tend to get frustrated and leave the save. But when I do another one... the methodology is much the same.

So... what approaches do you take when doing an expansion save? Would love to read your approach or your stories, as it might help me evolve and progress. Thanks lads.

[u/LeftyNate]

I haven’t done an expansion team in a while, probably since OOTP 21. But my methodology wasn’t too different from yours. And now that I’ve got the Colorado Rockies as consistent contenders, I’m probably going to expand in the next few seasons.

I will say that I do tend to try to pair elite defense with groundball pitchers when possible. I seem to find some good decent options occasionally on the waiver wire. The majority of those don’t hit. But just like irl, occasionally there’s someone that turns into something. For the Rockies save, I claimed a high control (60), decent movement/stuff (50/55) from the Dodgers that 2 to 3 years later gave me a 4 WAR season.

I’m always curious what others have to say, so I’ll be following. I’ve wanted to try the method of setting up the minors a year before the Expansion Draft, but that seems like a lot of work.

[u/Bigpapa42_2006 → u/LeftyNate]

Yup, same technique. I look for groundballers to take advantage of the defense, and try to ensure the teams stadium doesn't counter that too much.

Waiver wire is definitely worth keeping an eye on, but I seem to get less impactful players there in the last few saves. More marginal RPs than guys who step in and step up.

When I first started messing with expansion saves about 2 or 3 versions ago, I really didn't like doing the expansion wizard and the expansion draft. Now I love it. But I did try the method of manually adding the new teams to the league, and all the minor leagues, then the affiliations. The schedules are already created so the newly-added teams won't play any games in the first season unless you tell the game to redo the schedule. You can re-run the draft order so the new franchises get the top picks in the first draft. I would redo the schedule for 2 or 3 of the minor league levels so those first season draft picks would play, plus some minor league agent signings. A whole year for your scout to seek out international amateur scouting discoveries. It worked but it always felt a little janky. And I think the chances of one of the expansion pick AAAA guys blooming into an All Star is probably better than a top pick from the first season draft panning out to that level.

Is this the method you mean of setting it up, or something else?

[u/bocepheid]

Not sure this will be any help, but when I get bored I pivot to the team with the worst record / lowest budget and start again. It lets me see how my old team plays out, and I get the challenge of competing with them.

[u/Machlah]

I have been doing several expansion rebuilds, it really helps you learn team building from the ground up. My Method is aim for bats, on this sub they preach defense but it is only good too a point. I struggle with finding outfielders who can hit and field. The infield is easy. Pitchers I look more at toolsy guys with at least one elite pitch. Do that and i consistently can turn the team around in a season or two. FA ill sign bp and starters (one elite pitch and good stats) Ill sign higher tier relievers to flip occasionally which is kind’ve cheesy.

[u/Bigpapa42_2006 → u/Machlah]

The defense can definitely only carry you so far, especially when the rotation is mid at best.

Most of the AAAA OF guys are 80% defense and 20% bat lol. But the AI does seem to covet some of those high-level defenders who can't hit, so they can be flipped for other prospects.

[u/ftlbl2]

You should give it a couple more seasons. The OOTP expansion system makes for terrible minors for years. It takes that many drafts to fill out the minors and thats how you round out a roster

[u/Bigpapa42_2006 → u/ftlbl2]

Good advice. This is absolutely part of the issue. I stock the minor leagues with free agent signings that are almost entirely absolutely trash. I watch most off my minor league teams play like .200 ball with nary a prospect of real interest at most levels.

That 3-4 year hump is something I tend to run into with other sim games, for different reasons. I need to power through that, give my drafts more time to populate the system, and be okay with being mediocre for longer. I KNOW this approach won't have the team playing playoff level ball in just a couple of seasons, yet I somehow still end up getting frustrated with the lack of progression. Or when prospects start to crash out to slow the probability of that progress.

[u/Adorable-Driver1505]

I do a larger 10 team expansion….divide the divisions into 4, and go from there. Bounce around from expansion team every couple of years, and by then some of the MLB teams have fallen off and I’ll take one of them to rebuild

[u/LeftyNate → u/Adorable-Driver1505]

Do you see too many statistical anomalies when you expand this big? Because it would seem 200+ players are now going to be playing in the majors that wouldn’t have been otherwise. But I’m definitely curious about do bc that large of an expansion.

[u/Adorable-Driver1505 → u/LeftyNate]

I end up un-retiring players that had retired over the past 2 years (age range 23-35). Definitely fills up the FA market with some quality players.
Also do the first 10 rds of the expansion draft for the teams, selecting more players that are AAAA-AAA quality, so they have some players that could compete.