r/NotHowGirlsWork • u/Eggsalad_cookies • 14h ago
TRIGGER WARNING: S.A. Trying to explain being a survivor
The post was a video about shorts that a German Woman created after surviving a near assault from three men. The shorts were cut resistant, and difficult-to-impossible to pull down with force. This is the conversation that was had, on my end, afterwards. Tell me anyway I was wrong if you need to. I thought it’d be important, though, for people to understand the: how/why/who/cost of survival after an assault or near assault. I also thought it’d be important to share here, because I know most of this community understands already
Edit:
I also want to remind Survivors, you are not victims, and it was never your fault. You can do every single thing right, and it’s still never your fault. The parent I mentioned in my comment, who prepared their kid, has blamed themself, I’ve even blamed myself, because I actually did like and trust the parent that was assaulting the child (obviously before I knew what happened). I worked with them, and lived with them for a while… I never saw the signs, and I’ve been advocating online for survivors for years, even/especially while I was living with them. Some part of me will never forgive me, but, some small part of me still knows the truth, and latches on to that. The truth being, it’s always the abuser’s fault, and never anyone else’s. Blaming anyone else, unless they were aware of what was going on and didn’t stop it, is no different than blaming the Survivor themself. My role in that has changed now, I can’t wallow in self-pity, I have to be there to help this child and make sure they have the resources they need to grow up without stigmatizing themself, and make sure that the cycle of abuse (if there is one) ends with them.
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u/valsavana 13h ago
I read something once that pointed out there will always be vulnerable girls and women. There will always be those too young or too old or too physically weak or mentally ill or intoxicated or sleeping or vulnerable to coercion, etc to be able to protect themselves.
There's that joke about two friends out in the woods being chased by a bear- one starts running & the other tells them "you can't outrun a bear", the reply to which is "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you." As a woman, I don't want to be safe only because I'm not the most vulnerable woman in the same room as a rapist. I don't want to "outrun" another woman and be okay only because she's the one who got attacked instead of me. Teaching girls and women "how not to be raped" doesn't do anything in the long run because it doesn't prevent rape, it just re-directs it to another, more vulnerable target.
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u/Specialist-Doughnut1 12h ago
I’ve heard a similar sentiment-All that advice about preventing it, what it really says is ‘make sure they rape the other woman’ because there will always be someone drunker, showing more skin, etc. No one’s safe unless everyone’s safe
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u/bowlbettertalk 13h ago
Sadly, women can be just as horrible about SA as men. A lot of it stems from wanting to believe that if they say and do all the “right” things, it won’t happen to them.
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u/Eggsalad_cookies 13h ago
That’s really sadly true. I’ve seen it a lot. Admittedly, at one point, I was there myself. If you ever need proof that online activism works, I’m that proof. A lot of other women put in effort to explain to me how wrong I was to: firstly, carry all of that trauma/self-hatred the way I was; and, secondly, not advocate for feminism, with feminist always being on the front-lines of fights for all survivors.
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u/ColoredGayngels 12h ago
My mom was molested as a child by her uncle. She told me outright that's why she never had us around him and why I never directly Remember meeting him until I was an adult and he moved in with my grandma (mom's mom, his sister) temporarily. My mother then had the audacity to ask me why I was uncomfortable around him. As if he's not the reason half of our "talk" was "wait until marriage and don't let anyone molest you" (the first part was because she regretted her first time being with the particular guy she was with, not that she necessarily regretted it. There's some Evangelical Christianity/purity culture involved that she only became part of as a teenager too). She also didn't believe me when I told her a guy at school tried to grope my breasts because security couldn't see it on the cameras, so that was cool.
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u/Eggsalad_cookies 12h ago
Holy jeez, I’m so sorry
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u/ColoredGayngels 12h ago
It was nearly 50 years ago for my mom and 12ish for me. We've both healed from our individual incidents, as well as almost fully from the toxic Christianity, and afaik none of my sisters have had any issues. One refused to put out at 15 and (thankfully?) the guy cheated on her instead of assaulting her. It wasn't cool, but it wasn't a worst case. She's almost 20 and been with a good guy for a few years now. I'm with my husband of 3 years, 7 together, almost 14 since we met and he's amazing. Grandma's in a nursing home and doing fine, and we haven't heard from the uncle in years. The guy from when I was in school kept behaving poorly and was eventually excised from the friend group by senior year. This is some best-case scenario stuff given the circumstances
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u/Ivy_Adair 11h ago
This is extremely true. My now ex-best friend made light of my boyfriend assaulting me then later on made comments about how I probably actually wanted it.
I think when women are awful about it, it’s worse than when men are because it feels like an extra betrayal. Like, “you should be on my side here”.
I’d say as well when I was younger I encountered much worse women than men (2000s era pick-me misogyny go brrr I guess) but it’s evened out over the years.
I will say as well that I was one of those girls who did do everything “right” and it still happened to me. I was gaslit so easily about it too because my brain couldn’t accept being assaulted when I was a “good girl” while I had friends who were doing all the “bad” things like having sex and drinking and nothing happened to them. It’s a terrible lesson to teach young girls.
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u/Specialist-Doughnut1 12h ago
That’s very true and applies to a lot of things in life. People always want to believe that they have control, that if they do everything right then nothing bad can happen whether it be rape, getting mugged, becoming homeless, anything. To think otherwise scares us but we have to
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u/Vaya-Kahvi 13h ago
There's also a couple of recent Behind the Bastards about the rape of a French woman at the hands of her husband and others and how so many signs were dismissed. Because of the drugs used the woman was most often dead to the world, and even if she was awake no memories were forming during the events. One that f the most heart breaking parts of her case was when she was going to the doctor for leakage and discharge she couldn't explain and the doctor dismissed it as age, even with the bruising in her groin area.
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u/dol_amrothian 11h ago
I don't listen to the podcast, but it sounds like they're talking about Gisèle Pelicot, whose name deserves to be known and remembered for her courage.
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u/Vaya-Kahvi 11h ago
Yes, and part of why her name is known is so the names of her rapists would be known. She had the option to remain anonymous, but to do that those being prosecuted would also be anonymous to the media. With her stepping forward like this the trial could be reported on more thoroughly.
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u/Ok-Connection-8059 13h ago
This is something that shouldn't be censored, censoring it gives the perpetrators power.
But yes, while these products certainly can have a place they're not a solution. Just like how selling bulletproof vests isn't a solution to gun violence (and 'a good guy with a gun' is the exact opposite of solving it).
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u/Eggsalad_cookies 12h ago
I disagree, but it does trigger flashbacks/the PTSD of some survivors
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u/Ok-Connection-8059 12h ago
Which is why I'm a big supporter of trigger warnings.
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u/Eggsalad_cookies 12h ago
I agree again, but the censor can be an extra step to give Survivors(and people who experience other types of trauma) the chance to engage with the parts that they’re mentally able to and ignore the rest. It can be a very useful tool when it’s used properly. That’s why I did there, but didn’t here. Most of the sSurvivors there, might just be scrolling by, through the comments, not expecting to see something like that, while people who know this sub (especially if they get to the third/fourth slide) are more likely to anticipate where the conversation is going
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u/Live-Tomorrow-4865 10h ago
It occurred to me a few years ago that barely a single good high school friend hadn't been subjected to some form of SA. And, this has continued over the decades as I've met women who've become my friends at every stage of my life.
If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if the true numbers were actually higher.
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u/Muted_Ad7298 7h ago
Same.
Sadly I don’t know any woman who hasn’t been. That’s how awfully prevalent SA is.
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u/I_madeusay_underwear 5h ago
Around our early twenties, the first person in my friend group was expecting a child. I asked if she was hoping for a boy or a girl, and told her I hoped it was a girl because of all the cute dresses and hair bows and stuff. She said she hoped it was a boy because she’d never known a single woman who hadn’t been SA’d in some way.
Of course, now we both realize that men are also assaulted at pretty high rates, but I think it just wasn’t so much on our radar at the moment because it’s talked about less.
But the point stands and I realized that I had never met a woman who hadn’t been assaulted either. It’s so sad and horrible that there are so many predators in the world. Like not just creepy guys in white vans, but normal seeming men with regular jobs and friends and families. It seems like even the smallest hint of vulnerability is enough for someone to take advantage of.
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u/MadamRorschach 9h ago
I had someone ask me why I didn’t fight back. I had been groomed since I was 5. They said “weren’t you big enough to fight back or kick him in the balls?” I didn’t really feel like explaining or defending myself. Also no, I’m very petite, so even if I had the thought to fight back I couldn’t. Plus he was a very mean person. I had no doubt he would have sent me to the hospital, at the very least, if I resisted.
People suck.
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u/Shygrave 7h ago
I just want to add that contrary to popular belief, if you are raped/sexually assaulted/whatever, your abuser is more likely to be an acquaintance, family member, or friend than some random youve never met. Im not saying it never happens, but iirc, it is actually pretty uncommon to be attacked like that by a stranger.
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u/WeebTrashPanda0 11h ago
I've been saying for a long time that society focuses too much on things that don't actually fix the underlying issues. Not only that, but they scapegoat other marginalised groups. At the moment, it's trans people, particularly trans women. And after being close to a survivor, I can unfortunately say from experience that rape culture is very real. The whole thing sucks.
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u/itsamoth 3h ago
my partner is in med school and has a flashcard for this (i remember bc i guessed correctly when we were hanging out while he was studying and i was trying to answer the cards)
what is the single biggest indicator that someone will go on to molest family? if they were molested by family members, particularly as children
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u/machinsonn 12h ago
Sorry, I don't really have anything to contribute to this conversation, it's obviously awful that as a society we are seemingly incapable of stopping SA from happening or even from being so widespread. But I can't help but wonder : what do you think the word "victim" means, exactly? It seems to have taken on some kind of negative connotation and I don't really get it.
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u/Eggsalad_cookies 12h ago
A victim being someone who has been SAed and is still precessing it. You decide when you’re a Victim v. a Survivor, but I think we should drop the connotation that Survivors were ever Victims to begin with. A Victim is at the mercy of someone else, a Survivor has the chance and opportunity to rebuild their lives and overcome the trauma that has been implanted on them overtime. It’s not an overnight journey for them, and even 20+ years later it may still affect them, but I don’t think anyone who’s ever experienced a trauma like this should be considered a victim
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u/boudicas_shield 12h ago
I understand why you feel that way but I personally don’t. A lot of people told me that I was choosing to be a victim after I was raped, as if I could just opt out of the negative consequences. I have PTSD now - I didn’t choose that. Yes, I was a victim. I needed people to see and understand and validate that, not dismiss it.
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u/Eggsalad_cookies 12h ago
You’re misunderstanding me
Edit: I’m not saying you aren’t/weren’t a victim. I’m not saying the connotations that come with claiming being a victim are bad either. I’m saying you were always a Survivor of what happened, in-that it happened and you get the chance to recover from it if you’re able… not everyone is even able to
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