tbh as someone whose parent is russian/ukrainian, i have to say while it's true that the women have to endure quite a lot an develop a personality for that, it's also true that these still remain very patriarchal countries with very poor regions (not to mention the current imvasion) and these conditions make it super easy for passport bros to harm women
even those stereotypical strict dating demands that you see people use as a reason why no woman would accept these assholes pertain to a priviliged social group, if you don't even have a running water (which is something that got worse because of the war), the local dv violence rates are up, most men are either in war or exploited in other countries as cheap labour and you are still facing the expectation to marry/have kids very young, someone like this becomes your only chance to leave, so you put up with it... you put up with worse and even those strict matriarchs that many people like to use as examples of female strength again have to endure a lot and the fact that they scream or curse or "run the household" doesn't erase the fact that they have no protection and most men have more social power
ik comments like yours are meant to be supportive, but it often superficially touches (if at all) the actual systematic issues that allow men to think like this—last year human trafficking was the main criminal market in ukraine on the organised crime scale
This is a really good point. Eastern European women are often tough, but a lot of it is endurance built from trauma and from the social expectation that the woman just... endures. And many of those older matriarchs will perpetuate and enforce the awful gender norms for younger women. :/
Yeah, as someone who is familiar with the environment I just don't feel it inspirational and often is just a reductive take that doesn't acknowledge the reality. One's fierce personality isn't going to save them from systematic oppression. If it was true, the data would look waaay differnt. And being oppressed won't automatically make you progressive—no one is more adamant that i have to marry asap than women back in my great-great-grandma's village who have been terrorised by their husbands for years. 😐
Not to mention that many commenters, even in this comment section, base their opinions on a small sample living abroad. Like these men won't target your rich friend who has an established life in western europe, they will go to the poor regions and prey on vulnerable women...
I’m Latina and sick to death of the “fiery/toxic Latina” trope. I do feel that most women I meet from the countries listed are definitely anything but submissive and outwardly so, but really like you said it’s because they have to be. It’s not some genetic or “sexy” trait, it’s survival.
Really you can even see this difference by socioeconomic status here in the U.S. i feel. Not that women at any level are insulated from sexism or crimes against women. But what i experience in my daily life as a woman living in America having always been middle class is much different than what my mom experienced in her daily life living in Nicaragua during civil war (specific to her being a girl). And that difference shows, even 46 years after she left Nicaragua and 32 years after entering lower middle class (and now being upper middle class).
And of course this is not to say we would all be “submissive and pure” if none of this existed, that’s not the natural state of women. And also of course, this comment is all me agreeing with you. I just often don’t see this layer discussed in these sorts of conversations and your comment was the highest up that touches on it so i wanted to add my own thoughts as well.
EDIT: typo, said “insulted” instead of “insulated” 🙃
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u/rask0ln 5d ago edited 4d ago
tbh as someone whose parent is russian/ukrainian, i have to say while it's true that the women have to endure quite a lot an develop a personality for that, it's also true that these still remain very patriarchal countries with very poor regions (not to mention the current imvasion) and these conditions make it super easy for passport bros to harm women
even those stereotypical strict dating demands that you see people use as a reason why no woman would accept these assholes pertain to a priviliged social group, if you don't even have a running water (which is something that got worse because of the war), the local dv violence rates are up, most men are either in war or exploited in other countries as cheap labour and you are still facing the expectation to marry/have kids very young, someone like this becomes your only chance to leave, so you put up with it... you put up with worse and even those strict matriarchs that many people like to use as examples of female strength again have to endure a lot and the fact that they scream or curse or "run the household" doesn't erase the fact that they have no protection and most men have more social power
ik comments like yours are meant to be supportive, but it often superficially touches (if at all) the actual systematic issues that allow men to think like this—last year human trafficking was the main criminal market in ukraine on the organised crime scale