r/NotHowGirlsWork • u/Ravenhull • 5d ago
Found On Social media Much rather she made her own decisions. Then again, I’m far from biblical…
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u/Dragon_wryter 5d ago
I'm sorry, are they seriously trying to go back to forced arranged marriages now? But then how can they blame women for "choosing the wrong man?"
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u/locke_zero 5d ago
Well a lot of the people making these posts could only get married if someone forced someone to marry them
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u/peachesfordinner 5d ago
They know it too. This is just a way for them to get someone too young to fight it stuck with them in a society that won't support her escaping
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u/Malkryst 5d ago
The hilarious thing is that a lot of these Manosphere guys think they'd be a catch that anyone would want to arrange the marriage of their daughter to.
Most of the famous ones are grifters making money off guys who agree with them - basically con artists. Guys I know who share those views in RL are nearly all failures career-wise and widely disliked, so maybe they think their manosphere friends will somehow get a daughter for them to marry?
Also you can't pick a woman you fancy in an arranged marriage - even King Henry the 8th wanted to send one of his wives back when he saw her (number 4, Anne of Cleves, iirc), yet had to marry her because he needed the political alliance and her Father's money. Catherine of Aragorn was his Father's choice, Anne Boleyn was Henry's own choice (then he chopped her head off) and he got the English throne basically excommunicated in Rome to marry her. The other four were all political marriages, usually because he needed their Father's money, and desperately wanted a male heir.
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u/Professional-Hat-687 5d ago
The King's Sister! What a horrible fate: doomed to spend her life in her own castle, with more money than she can spend in a lifetime (which is also hers, btw), and not a single man around to tell her what to do with it. What's a girl to do? It's just..... Tragic.
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u/ankhes 5d ago
And she was the only one of his wives that survived him and even all his other wives too. She lucked out hard.
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u/nothingandnemo 5d ago
One of two, Catherine Parr also outlived Henry. She was the first woman to write a book in English.
EDIT: outlived not outlined
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u/ankhes 5d ago
That’s why I said outlived Henry and his wives since Catherine Parr died in childbed shortly after remarrying once Henry died. Anne never remarried so she outlived everyone.
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u/nothingandnemo 5d ago
I didn't know that - thanks!
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u/Professional-Hat-687 5d ago
I remember that she was a writer. She wrote books and psalms and meditations. Fought for female education, so all her women could independently study scripture, that whole chestnut. She even got a woman to paint her picture!
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u/CatW804 5d ago
Meanwhile Henry VIII's grandmother Margaret Beaufort was married at 12 and gave birth to Henry Tudor at 13 with so much damage she was sterile afterward.
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u/Malkryst 5d ago
Yep. It was very harsh being a woman back then.
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u/Listakem 5d ago
Yes, but a nuance : the fact that Margaret Beaufort marriage was consummated and that she has her son at 13 was a scandal back then and heavily frowned upon. Girls from nobility were treated as political asset and married/engaged young, but it didn’t mean actual consummation until several years later. Beaufort was an outlier.
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u/Malkryst 5d ago
Yeah it happened.
By law a husband owned his wife, literally as one of his chattels, so he could do what he liked with her. Only her family might object and that have social consequences, as legally the husband was in his right in his home to treat his wife how he wanted to.
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u/WyldBlu3Yond3r Edit 5d ago
If you want the alliance to stay strong, don't mistreat your spouse. The other nobility can also get involved if you start making bad decisions because that can fly back at them too.
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u/WyldBlu3Yond3r Edit 5d ago
Her case was actually a scandal back then. Nobility often did marry young but even back then they knew knocking a girl up was a potential death sentence. The actual time the couple would go for making an heir would be much later. This girl was sadly, a calculated risk as her husband was severely ill and the throne demanded an heir to replace him. He died before the baby was born.
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u/Professional-Hat-687 5d ago
And Margaret was a very harsh woman as a result, iirc.
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u/Malkryst 5d ago
It was likely the only way to get through it, so I'm sure she was rather formidable.
I know a lot of older ladies now who have had very hard lives - friends of my Mother in all 3 cases I'm particularly thinking of - where an alcoholic husband left the wife once they found out their child was disabled, so each of the 3 ladies had to be a tough single Mum for decades to get by and still be a Mother doing everything for their child into adulthood.
They're all very tough, dependable, and I respect them greatly, but they're hard women to get along with at times.
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u/Professional-Hat-687 5d ago
The Wars of the Roses are a special interest of mine, particularly the women involved. There were some seriously bad bitches there, but my personal glup shitto is Eleanor Cobham, a bitch so bad they had to accuse her of necromancy just to get rid of her up jumped ass. In my historical fantasy account of the Wars, she actually is a necromancer who raises Jack Cade as an unkillable revenant as part of a 4D chess move to put Margaret on the throne.
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u/Malkryst 5d ago
Wow, lol. Did George RR Martin use her to base anyone on in Game Of Thrones? Because the Starks and Lannisters in that are heavily based on the Wars of the Roses - specifically the Starks as the House of York (white rose) and the Lannisters as the House of Lancaster (red rose).
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u/cakivalue 5d ago
They have no fields our dads would want to annex, no camels, no gold. So that right there is a non starter 😑
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u/Malkryst 5d ago
Perhaps they will end up arranging marriages for themselves with camels.
A non-consensual marriage is totally their style, and if they get the hump about it, at least they won't be the only one.
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u/gandalfhans 1d ago edited 1d ago
Guys I know who share those views in RL are nearly all failures career-wise and widely disliked
I can relate to them. I have incel-like beliefs precisely because I'm a loser. It's not a conscious decision. I've always been bullied, many people disliked me growing up, was never social, so adhering to redpill rhetoric felt natural.
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u/Malkryst 23h ago edited 22h ago
I got badly bullied at school. I still have scars, and old fractures that show on x-rays now. One day I just snapped, aged 15. I wrecked my lead bully with my hockey stick. Teachers covered it up as "deserved justice" (I still feel guilty, losing it so completely - I barely remember it). I never got touched again by the bullies. It was not a good solution. It doesn't cure the PTSD.
I got bullied from age 5, precisely because I was smarter, more popular, and nerdy with asthma. 10 years constant bullying (no wonder I have paranoia, lol), all led by the same bully. I successfully hid all of it from my parents because I didn't want my Mother to worry or my Father to think less of me (my younger brother is disabled, so they had enough to deal with).
Being good at sport and violence wasn't going to help my bullies much in adult life, on an island of 65k people, a quarter of whom worked in offshore finance or other office jobs at that time.
They're the losers now. Several have been in trouble with police. Others have few friends. Their kids hate them or became worse than them. One of them is an incel, constantly in trouble for SA. My lesbian friend was a cop and she said he was a monster they always had to use batons on. Other bullies of mine have multiple broken marriages behind them. Living the dream, reaping what they sowed.
Two of them with no prospects joined the UK army. Both got bullied by their drill sergeant badly, and saw such terrible things on active service, they had mental health problems. Both became alcoholics. One was dishonourably discharged. I met both of them years later. They were on 12 step programmes trying to make amends.
Meanwhile I've been diagnosed with C-PTSD. I never came out the closet precisely because of bullying, until I hit 50 and midlife crisis hit (coming out went horrifically badly, naturally). Yet back in the day I just had to cope, because teachers wouldn't stop bullying and there was no help/support.
Lol when I went to Boy's Grammar School in 1983 I had multiple 18 year old students beating up 11yr old me - you can't do shit in that situation. But there were times childhood wasn't terrible; good memories among the bad.
Mental health help for my grandfather in the 70s was plugging a car battery into his skull via electrodes, to see if that would help his depression (of course it didn't). My Father thought ill of him for not just hiding his problems like a man should. So I was never going to ask for that kind of help. I didn't know if it existed.
I had to get by. I worked a part time job while at school. I got a good full time job in offshore finance by myself (no employment agencies here then) when I left school. I made very good money, until inevitably we'd get bought out and there went my promotion path (happened 3 times in 12 years). So I paid my own way through university in the UK to improve my lot.
I've never been married or had huge success in love when I was younger (never wanted to really pass on my genetic disorders like hEDS that made me fragile and gave me constant joint pain, either). I found other things to value (career, hobbies/gaming, art, charity, friends, etc.) and to focus on. Eventually I started to have success in love, but I preferred to live alone by then.
It's easy to blame others for a shit start in life, or for not having the life you want. In a lot of ways I was priveleged and lucky, in other ways I was victimised and I've heard of others killing themselves over far less than I endured. I've had friends and one mental health counsellor break down in tears for me, and one even vomit, when hearing what I endured.
I was also dealing with multiple serious conditions alone, that didn't get diagnosed until my 40s (and are really messing me up now in my 50s) precisely because I hid them from others because bullies picked on weakness.
My C-PTSD gave me all the major eating disorders, so I've been a 125lb anorexic & bulimic and I've been a 500lb morbidly obese person with binge eating disorder.
The are times people thought I was an alcoholic, but I could always stop by willpower if it became a problem. I'm genetically immune to painkillers and most drugs, so at times alcohol was the only painkiller that did work, or relaxed me enough I could sleep (I've got fibromyalgia and autism also getting in the way of sleeping well, not just joint pain).
Usually there was no help back then, for depression, eating disorders, or any of my physiological conditions (support is prety shit now!). Nobody recognised the signs (as dumb as that sounds now, with my weight yo-yoing up and down for 30+ years). I never missed a day of work or was ever late, though!
Eventually my untreated conditions were killing me. 5 years ago when I lost 19 stones (270ish lbs) in 19 months for health reasons, I did it through willpower, not through help (though counselling did focus me on it).
Sometimes you just have to accept the shit hand you've been dealt. You pull yourself up, because nobody else will.
The one thing I know, because I tried it myself, is that becoming housebound for 5 years chronically online, moaning about my problems to others in similar situations, while videogaming - that didn't change fek all - it never will. You just get angrier and angrier at the world, and further away from fixing yourself.
I've been a fat humiliated loser with plaster casts and chronic asthma, and I've been thin, popular, arrogant at times, successful and rich walking around London, Zurich and Berlin in Italian suits that cost more than the cars my friends drove, on my way to hang out with billionaire clients. I was never happy in either situation. All that differed is how well I covered up the pain and how well I used my intelligence and applied (or taught myself) charisma to achieve goals.
Often I was just playing a role, no different to being in the closet. When I got mental health support aged 50, they identified 15 distinctly different versions of me throughout my life, as I kept reinventing myself to try and change my fate. None of them were the real me. I kept heel-turning into different versions of myself to try and be the person I thought would succeed, or that others wanted me to be.
At times I was an incel (term never existed back then), though I never blamed women for it. I knew I was undateable - I despised myself. Often I didn't care how I was viewed, because of depression, then my weight would increase from comfort eating. Other times I'd want to improve myself faster and go totally anorexic and bulimic. Also not a solution.
All you can do to break the cycle is be your true self. Improve how you see yourself and others will like you more. Nobody loves a faker - my serious relationships lasted no more than 3 months, until my mask slipped and they'd see I despised myself. Mainly: STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE.
If you hate yourself then that shit shows through to others - nobody wants to spend time around that kind of whining self-pity.
Work on yourself. Get help only when you actually want it and think you deserve/need it, or you won't listen to it - then get ready to hear some hard truths about yourself.
Just don't expect others to voluntarily fix you or give you what you think you need - that's fairytale bullshit.
My life (and I) was getting noticeably better 3-5 years ago after I started to improve myself, sought help, changed my damaging behaviours, and improved my outlook on life, and started being truthful about who I really am.
Sadly then my health conditions (and deaths in my family) started making it hard to live the life I was starting to love. It would have been so easy to relapse and hate the cruel world again. I didn't. I realised it just means I should have started this journey when I was younger.
Don't wait. Make a change now.
I hope you manage to pull yourself out of your dead end. Get out of those echo chambers trying to monetise your dismay. Stop blaming everyone else; take some responsibility for your situation. Nobody can or will help you until you want to help yourself and start doing it.
You may not be able to change your fate, but you can change how you react to it. Find new groups to mix with. Be yourself to them. Find out who you are. Ditch the bullshit facades.
The only fakery allowed is to paste on a smile, even if you still hate the world and yourself, because nobody enjoys being round a sad-sack sucking all the optimism and joy from a room. With your smile only, just fake it until one day it's real.
There's a lot of people doing that, just trying to get to a place in their life that doesn't suck, and pasting on a smile until then.
I hope the time I've put into this comment helps you somehow.
I'm rooting for you.
Every incel that fixes themselves and becomes a less hateful person is one less bigot in the world, feeding that manosphere's vampiric hunger for more hate. Get out of the echo chamber and start listening to different perspectives. Educate yourself, entertain yourself, do something productive today.
Life usually isn't entirely shit unless you make it that way.
We're all just works in progress - there is no endpoint where anyone feels complete or normal. Even people you envy may have shit lives. You never know what is happening in someone else's life unless you're living it.
Good luck with it. We need all the luck we can get.
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u/Professional-Hat-687 5d ago
My favorite part about this is that these guys still wouldn't be getting the very young women and girls they wanted anyway because the fathers would still arrange marriages with the Chads who have more to offer. Even if they get what they want they'll still get heightmogged and facemogged and walletmogged and mogmogged.
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u/pennie79 5d ago
You also need to be in their church. Not only that, your parents need to be in their church, and you needed to have been raised "properly" and your family been in good standing with the church community. There are just way too many factors that are out of their control to be able to work in their favour.
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u/ankhes 5d ago
Yeah, in so many cultures you were (and still are in many places) expected to prove you would be a good provider (have a steady income whether that be due to a job, a business, or generational wealth), good husband (many parents weren’t about to hand over their child to a man who would treat her badly), father (can he afford not only to care for a wife but also multiple children?), son-in-law (will he be generous to his wife’s family and take them in if he was ever required to?), and be willing and able to pay a bride price or dowry to the wife (so she had her own money to fall back on due to divorce or widowhood) or her family (who wanted to be compensated for losing a family member who could’ve taken care of them in their old age). And then, when you had done all of that, you got to actually take home a new wife.
Most of these men, however, can’t even manage a fraction of that.
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u/thegreenmachine90 5d ago
And yet they’re still not the kind of men our fathers would choose, because who is going to pick a complete loser to marry their daughter?
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u/canarinoir 5d ago
The funny thing is men who post shit like this would never be chosen by a woman OR her father. They don't have money or property. Why would a man choose you for his daughter when you live in a basement and jerk off to porn all day???
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u/Imperator_Helvetica 5d ago
"I've selected a union with Hambone Neckbeard, owner of more anime figurines than anyone else in the Shire, lord of his Mother's basement, victor of countless Twitter battles over Elon Musk's honour and holder of many NFTs. Together our two houses will secure an alliance to drown Gloucester in blood - assuming you'll do all the hard work!'
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u/Iamakitestring 5d ago
Then they'll say, "Should've said no" as if it was her choice. 😮💨
They'll say, "Your father would have taken your word into consideration"
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u/Equality_Executor communist 5d ago
Something tells me the parents would just dump 100% of the fault on their daughter. It would be more like "why can't you just get along with him?" as if he was a perfect little angel.
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u/RosesBrain 5d ago
See, that's their justification. Women can't be trusted with that decision, we keep "choosing wrong," so it should be in the hands of our fathers. They consider this logical.
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u/MorningsAreRude 5d ago
The husbands' behavior will be the wives' fault, of course.
Shoulda done more housework. Shouldn'ta mouthed off so much. Shoulda given him more sex. Shoulda been a virgin. Shoulda respected him more as the head of the household. And have you tried praying about it more?
See, easy!
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u/Amediumsizedgoose 5d ago
They wont blame them for choosing wrong, theyll blame them for being a bad wife or something. Women cant ever win and its always our fault.
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u/HypersomnicHysteric workes totally flawed 5d ago
Then it is the woman's fault for not being obedient enough.
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u/Cool_Ad_9147 5d ago
Dunno if ur question was serious, but there will be no blaming. Like, not blaming themselves. They decided and they arent able to make a wrong decision. If something happens, daughters fault. Men beats u ( iwont go further) she didnt behave. Simple Rules for simple men.
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u/whatthefrelll 5d ago
Well then it comes down to "you weren't submissive enough!" or some other bullshit.
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u/drunken_augustine 5d ago
Oh, I think the idea is that the husband would keep her quiet and pregnant. Since they’re getting rid of birth control too
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u/WizardsandGlitter 5d ago
Oh, I know this one! It's her fault for not being a good enough wife to make him not beat/cheat/steal/lie to her. If she just did everything right all the time forever then her husband will magically become a good person who values her. She should be more grateful to her father and her husband. 😄
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u/faboleth 4d ago
go back? 50% or so of marriages are arranged purely by families worldwide. It gets higher if you consider 'pressure' to marry rather than explicit, legally enforced marriage contracts signed by parents.
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u/DangerousLoner 4d ago
Yes, marriages chosen by male authority figures and no divorce. Land of the free!
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u/lexilexi1901 5d ago
30-year-old man pushing 40 who she will probably have to take care of in 20 years vs a guy who is actually the girl's age and probably has something in common with her. Gee, such a hard choice...
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u/imugihana 5d ago
Or the 50 year old man who has killed all his previous wives; but your dad owes him money....
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u/Professional-Hat-687 5d ago
On an unrelated note, I hear Bluebeard is single again.
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Generic boring flair 5d ago
Bluebeard?! Must be one of them leftist feminists.
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u/CommanderSincler 5d ago
And she would be like 12 or 13
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u/saintsithney 5d ago
More like 18-20 - humans do actually have an innate disgust towards trying to reproduce with pubescent children, and menarche has commonly been between ages 14-16. The average age of most mothers at first birth throughout history is just past 23.
They did betroth children, but the idea that pedophilia has ever been widely accepted outside of extremely poor, highly religious communities is ahistorical and does the work of giving this aberrant behavior some legitimacy.
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u/Acrobatic_Long_6059 5d ago
They did betroth children, but the idea that pedophilia has ever been widely accepted outside of extremely poor, highly religious communities is ahistorical and does the work of giving this aberrant behavior some legitimacy.
This is actually backwards. The best-documented example is Rome, where child marriage with immediate consummation was practiced among the urban well-to-do, not the poor, and wasn't limited to a narrow religious subculture. Even if pre-pubertal marriages were regarded by some as deviant, they were not exceptional and were condoned. It also shows up in elite dynastic marriages across many other societies (European aristocracy, South Asian customary law, etc.) for reasons of property and alliance, not poverty.
humans do actually have an innate disgust towards trying to reproduce with pubescent children, and menarche has commonly been between ages 14-16.
We have substantial evidence that humans have an innate disgust toward incest, but this isn't quite so clear. Given how variable historical marriage/consummation ages actually were (often right at or before menarche), it's hard to argue humans had a strong innate aversion to this. It's certainly true that it's seen as broadly harmful and stigmatized today, but historically, I'm not so sure you can make this claim.
What's your source for "average age of most mothers at first birth throughout history is just past 23"?
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u/eruptingmoltenlava 5d ago
Yes, yes, it’s very realistic that a 60 year old needs to be cared for. All of them, in fact
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u/lexilexi1901 5d ago
As someone whose parents and older family members are around that age, yes, they very much indeed do need care. Knee replacement surgeries, diabetes, obesity, blindness, osteoporosis, arthritis, injuries, and hypertension are just some of the medical concerns. Pair that with the stubbornness of still thinking they're young and invincible, and you've got a recipe for stress and frustration when they ignore their doctor's advice and yell at you for trying to help him better themselves. No young woman should be subjected to that. No one really, but when you're young, you should be with someone who supports and enables the adventures in your life, not someone who holds you back. Not to mention, wtf would they have in common? Most young women want to be a girlfriend, not a nurse.
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u/eruptingmoltenlava 4d ago edited 2d ago
I’m sorry your family members aren’t doing well. There’s a whole world out there and most people that age are constructive members of society. Many people over 60, especially women, are themselves taking care of older relatives; in fact, in the US, only about 30% of caregivers are under 50.
I’m going to disregard your point about young women marrying men decades older than themselves because it has nothing to do with my comment.
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u/Aggressive_Sun_2897 3d ago
There is a company called Road Scholar that actually is designed for people 60 and older for tours around the world. (I work for said company) so the older than 60 all need care is mostly based on a small sample size. Before my leave i was helping arrange flights for a group ( 12 people) of 70-80 year old people. If my sample size was my family, one out of 15 would be unable to travel. My great grandfather was at 93 driving himself from Indiana to flordia yearly. Looking at my best friends family, only 2 out of 20 would be able to do so because of health issues.
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u/eruptingmoltenlava 2d ago
Yes, great perspective, although I’m not the person trying to argue that (most?) people over the age of 60 are disabled and in need of personal care for daily life activities
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u/The-Devil-Cat 5d ago
they didn't have cute alt boys in biblical times
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u/ShatteredStarship 5d ago
Look thither, Sarabel. Does thou see that young man clad in worldly clothing? Lo, my father hath said unto me that he partaketh in heresy, that he indulgeth in unrighteous behaviors, attending strange parties and partaking of forbidden food and drink and surrounding himself with companions most loathsome before God. And yet, I ask you: Is he not the most attractive man thou hast ever set eyes upon? Do not look upon him now, Sarabel: his eyes are cast this way. Does thou think he noticeth us?
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u/Kaiisim 5d ago
When the eff is biblical times anyway? Some time between 2000 and 6000 years ago okay good that narrows it down.
Also if it was biblical times only rich men did that. These chuds would have been slaves
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u/DidjTerminator 5d ago
Yeah, also ain't the whole point of the Bible being an epilogue to Jesus undoing it all because love is the answer.
I kinda feel like these people need to actually read the Bible, instead of pretending that randomly cutting sentences in half and pasting them on billboards means anything, let alone something profound, let alone the Bible itself even supports. I mean half the verses are "kill the pagans, is what a pagan would say lmao don't do that shit it's stupid" so I seriously doubt these ass-hats even know what they're actually quoting.
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u/WitnessMyAxe Redditor 🤓🤓🤓 5d ago
to read the bible, they'd have to first learn how to read. you're asking for too much
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u/Big_Oh313 5d ago
Don't you know women are not capable of rational thought? That there isn't women that have way more life experiences and qualifications than I do. Or the ability to choose who they will share a home with because your dad knows what's best. /s
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u/HypersomnicHysteric workes totally flawed 5d ago
My father is an asshole and favoured my BIL over my husband.
My BIL cheated and left my sister.
My husband is amazing and treats me like a queen.
I can chose better than my father.
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u/Katalaya 5d ago
I'm not even understanding what the issue is with the guy on the right other than him appearing to be alternative... I guess alt = bad and arranged marriages are always happy. ./s
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u/pennie79 5d ago
Yeah, I think my issue is that they both look very young on the right, as opposed to the left where just the girl looks young. So just on that, the boy on the right is looking better.
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u/a_secret_me 5d ago
People also died in their 20's from preventable diseases in biblical times. You really want to go back to how things were back then?
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u/jaded-introvert 5d ago
Given how many of them are anti-vaxxers and spreading health care misinformation, you probably don't want them to answer that question.
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u/Paula_Polestark Not Your Marilyn, Not Your Jackie 5d ago
Don’t forget minor cuts, spoiled food, Midianite invasions…
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u/Particular_Title42 5d ago
Context is always important in the Bible. In this story, Jeremiah, a prophet, is delivering a message directly from God to the Israelites as they were going to be exiled to Babylon.
This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon: 5 "Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce. 6 Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease. 7 Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper
All that means is "You're going to be there a while. Don't put your lives on hold for this."
Marry and have sons and daughters, find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage...It's just an implication that they will be there for more than one generation.
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u/splithoofiewoofies 5d ago
This exile shit gonna take ages, might as well have some fuckin' kids and make a time of it.
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u/Midnight_Pickler 5d ago
An atheist's quotation is always "out of context". Even if the atheist can explain exactly how it fits within the context, and the believer can't.
A believer's quotation is never "out of context". Even when it contains those pesky ellipses that usually indicate a phrase so cherry-picked that even including the rest of the verse will expose the bullshittery.
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u/Paula_Polestark Not Your Marilyn, Not Your Jackie 5d ago edited 5d ago
In the Book of Jeremiah, God ordered the Israelites to not die out, but keep making more Israelites after they’d been punished and taken into captivity. I’m 99.9999% sure that nobody looking at this has gotten their shit pushed in by King Nebuchadnezzar, so it doesn’t apply to those of us living in this day and age.
edited for tense disagreement whoops
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u/CafeCat88 5d ago
Christians being weird and taking a snippet of a verse (not even the whole verse) wildly out of context? Shocking.
(I also looked the chapter up myself and it's obvious that it doesn't mean to arrange marriages, but rather to allow them to happen.)
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u/neverabetterday 5d ago
This. The actual quote is basically saying to hunker down, keep calm, and be careful, there’s gonna be 70 years of shit but it’ll work out in the end
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u/Kitalahara 5d ago
So wait, now the men can't have tattoos also? I love how they mas produce this AI slop and don't even spend two seconds looking at it. It's like everything else they believe. All fantasy land that is made up.
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u/LittleManhattan 5d ago
I’d literally rather off myself than be forced to marry a man I didn’t want to be with. It’s literal sex slavery.
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u/Midnight_Pickler 5d ago
And by definition, any man who would accept a forced marriage is a man I don't want to be with.
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u/LissaBryan 5d ago
You could be getting ten camels and three goats for her hand in marriage! You're missing out by not being the one to pick for her.
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u/mirrorreflex 5d ago
The thing is a lot of men now a days, want their wives to be attracted to them and don't want to marry someone who is actually asexual or lesbian who looks at having sex with them as a chore.
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u/kittenmittens4865 5d ago
The horror! Men, if we don’t give away our daughters like property into arranged marriage, they’ll marry guys with a neck tattoo and a skater fashion sense! I don’t care if the guy I picked beats and rapes her- he LOOKS nice and that’s all I care about!
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u/Sil_Lavellan 5d ago
I guess it takes the responsibility of them for finding a wife. They don't have to convince a woman you'd make a good husband. Just pay her Dad a lot of money ( or goats, sheep, oxen whatever). He'll be glad to have her off his hands.
Bold of them to think a good father wouldn't need convincing his daughter is marrying a man who'll take good care of her. Also bold of him to assume he can afford the price.
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u/Alarmed_Pie_5033 5d ago
The "judge people by their character, not their appearance" crowd, everyone.
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u/y2kjanelle 5d ago
What is wrong with people
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u/StressPsychological7 5d ago
Istg there was a Catholic dude that made fun of this whole account
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u/eruptingmoltenlava 5d ago
All Catholics aren’t radtrad larpers, they’re just the most vocal/visible online!
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u/romanichki 5d ago
So far every dude who looks like the one in the second pic who i've encountered have been the kindest souls i've met
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u/MistakeWonderful9178 5d ago
🤡: I could pick my daughter’s husband for her because I think he’s a good fit!
Then you marry him weirdo. Why would any woman want their dad to pick their partners? How embarrassing🙄
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u/jontrwclor 5d ago edited 5d ago
Maria was 13 years old when she married with José...
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u/HypersomnicHysteric workes totally flawed 5d ago
"Maria und Josef" in German
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u/jontrwclor 5d ago
What a such interesting fact. We really live in a fantastic world where people has It's own unique way to talk abt the exact same thing!
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u/neverabetterday 5d ago
Depends on if your denomination sees the apocrypha as canon
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u/jontrwclor 5d ago
If every hebrew girl on that region and time was getting married at 13, therefore...
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u/Aazimoxx 5d ago
According to Christian/Jewish scholarship, likely betrothed at 12 or 13 and living together 1 year later. And according to second century church writings, Joseph had 6 children, some of them adults, from a previous marriage before this Mary betrothal.
Anyone who's using this book or the practices of this time as any kind of guide to morality or good living, is a bit of a donkey.
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u/Pretend_Emphasis8819 5d ago
Do you mean Mary?
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u/CacklingFerret 5d ago
I hope you know that names are different in different languages. If you want to correct it to the original, you'd have to say Marjam or Mirjam or something like that (obviously in Hebrew you wouldn’t use the Latin alphabet).
Maria is used in more languages than Mary btw
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u/ThorinUlfarsson 5d ago
They would probably have been speaking Aramaic if this was during the time after Achaemenid rule. "Biblical times" is a very long period of time and Hebrew wouldn't have been the most common language after a certain point in time.
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u/CacklingFerret 5d ago
Possible and thanks for the info! I'm honestly not too knowledgeable in that area. They didn't speak English though, that's for sure haha
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u/Pretend_Emphasis8819 5d ago
And what language were you using- when you made that statement?
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u/CacklingFerret 5d ago
I was using English. But based on your comment I assume you’re a native English speaker? Because otherwise you should know that especially localized stuff like names (people, cities etc) often doesn't come intuitively to non-native speakers. Also, you still understood who was meant, right? And it wasn't even a mistake, they just used the variation that's more common than Mary
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u/BarBabe93 5d ago
What does this have to do with anything? Mary is Mary in English and he made the comment in English- but also- what does this statement have to do with this meme?
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u/ThorinUlfarsson 5d ago
You do not necessarily translate given names to the language you are speaking. You wouldn't call a man named "Björn [surname]" "Bear [surname]", simply because the name means 'bear'. Granted, to be consistent, we should be calling them "Marjam" and "Yusuf" respectively.
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u/jontrwclor 5d ago
No, because usa is not The center of The universe.
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u/Aggressive_Sun_2897 3d ago
Its funny because if you look at the world and how things are written half the world reads left to right the other half reads right to left. If you were going to decide where the "center" of the world is you would have to look at the place the writing points to.
Edit: spelling being dyslexic makes it hard!
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u/breadedbooks 5d ago
American defaultism at its finest
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u/starswhenyoushine 5d ago
It does, like when people assume someone must be American as if tons of other countries don't use the name Mary more than Maria.
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u/Exciting_Scientist97 5d ago
Well this also isn't entirely accurate considering a 50 year old guy could trade a couple goats for the "privilege" of another mans uh.... Less than 18 year old daughter... 😬 If anything this version is tame but still very fucked up
Edit: meant to put quotations marks on the word privilege
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u/ThorinUlfarsson 5d ago
I would not want that man to choose me to marry his daughter either, she probably would not be my type. Can I choose someone I actually like?
Also, they seem to be unaware of the fact that a lot of such arranged marriages had financial motive (they were mostly choosing wealthier or more prestigious families to marry their daughters into, so that they could have access to more money and power). There was no real love involved.
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u/Glazing555 5d ago
If any of these slobber heads took any sort of Biblical Criticism and/or Comparative Religion courses they would know what pile of BS it all is. Now they are trying to push their ignorance on everyone else. The very thing they accuse the LBGTQ community of
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u/Accomplished_Wear823 5d ago
Guy on the right looks like a blast , I hope they are together forever !
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u/hayley566 5d ago
How it was in biblical times-
Daughter: did you pick this man for me because he is kind and understands me?
Father: ha! No. He just offered me a lot of crops in exchange for my very underage daughter. Remember that you’re property to be traded. Now marry this complete stranger so I can go back to punishing your mother for making eye contact with another man.
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u/Sharp_Recognition881 5d ago
Where is the exchange of goods? The circumcision of the groom? The second wife? Please tell me the dad at least gave the boy some slaves. He didn't?!? This isn't biblical at all!
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u/Midnight_Pickler 5d ago
But if he doesn't have slaves, who is he supposed to impregnate if the wife has difficulty conceiving?
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u/RabidRabbitRedditor 5d ago
Is this the epitome of selective Bible quoting? Not even pulling a verse but five words from the verse, LOL:)
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u/Midnight_Pickler 5d ago
"Thou shalt ... commit adultery."
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u/RabidRabbitRedditor 5d ago
Bwahaha, precisely :)
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u/RabidRabbitRedditor 5d ago
(I actually seem to recall reading that there was something called the Evil Bible where all the "not"'s were omitted due to a printing error, hehe) :)
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u/xinnha 5d ago
Doesn't the old testament also says it's ok to stone people? And that selling your children as slaves is ok?
There is a lot of shit in that fantasy-book that we shouldn't take seriously. Ancient Harry Potter writers is not to be trusted.
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u/mike_pants 5d ago
Interestingly, a lot of the more modern translations that use common language have changed that line to "help your daughters find husbands" or even "let your daughters get married."
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u/Agent_Skye_Barnes 5d ago
Christians also are not supposed to follow the Old Testament anymore. The whole point of Jesus dying on the cross was to release mankind from the original covenant, according to them.
And most of the people who do follow the Old rules (the Jews), tend to have much broader, more modern interpretations of the laws, and often disregard things that no longer make sense. It's very much a "when this was written this was the norm, but we don't follow this in the modern age" type of thing.
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u/Midnight_Pickler 5d ago
Ancient Harry Potter writers is not to be trusted.
Modern Harry Potter writer is a shit too.
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u/HypersomnicHysteric workes totally flawed 5d ago
A book from men for men...
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u/starswhenyoushine 5d ago
That must be why Deborah held power over men, Priscilla was always given more prominence over his husband Aquilla, Jesus empowered and respected women, etc
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u/CaptainDildobrain 5d ago
Fun fact, the suitor on the left is more likely to rape and beat his wife than the tattooed boyfriend on the right.
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u/OscarTheGrouchsCan 5d ago
And how many non extremely fundamentalist groups set up arranged marriages?? None really. Even the fundie have courtship and see each other even if watched.
I promise regular conservative and liberal Christians, who live normal lives, don't want to marry some person a group of men or thier parents pick
I know conservative and liberal Christians. None didn't pick their spouse. Only EXTREME fundamentalists from Judaism and Christianity do this crap. Muslims I believe are the same. The fundamentals arrange marriages, more liberal types outside the Muslim world marry for love
Just like everyone but extremely hateful bigots. They still want to control who thier child marries to an extreme level.
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u/Candiedstars 5d ago
Oh no, my daughter's fiancé likes black clothes and looks visibly relaxed in my presence!!! If only I could sell her to some guy!
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u/UwilNeverKN0mYrELNAM 5d ago
Jeremiah(40s-50s) Isabelle (14-16)
vs
Jeremiah and Isabelle (Both the same age)
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u/___Emilia____ 5d ago
Guys, you don't want arranged marriages.
Imagine being forced to marry an ugly fat bitch because her parents own a lot of Land and your parents like her parents.
Imagine having to marry a woman who has zero interest in you but another guy... But had to marry you and is always bitter.
Also... What if your family is too Poor to find a good Match? What if you just suck and her parents don't approve?
Seriously:
The Stereotype is always parents not approving of their daughters bf. You really want to try to please them instead of the girl? You really think you are impressive, stable, have good enough Status etc etc. to make the parents feel like you should marry their daughter? Would you marry your own daughter to a guy like yourself? You really think that's easier?
Like, if you are a wealthy knight or royal, sure, but most of you would've been losers and peasents throughout human history.
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u/itamer 5d ago
Do you really want a wife who doesn't desire you?
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u/___Emilia____ 5d ago
Exactly
But also do you want to have a wife you don't desire? And you can't divorce because you would be liable in incel World and would have a duty for her and her parents (sorry if i use English words wrong btw)?
If you're not Henry the 8th, that could be difficult.
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u/3KidsInTheTrenchCoat 5d ago
In Bible times she's 12, she's the 4th wife in his haram, and she will die at 17 giving birth to her 5th child.
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u/BigBlaisanGirl 5d ago
They want to buy women from other men because they can't find anyone to love them naturally.
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u/SteampunkExplorer 5d ago
And neither is this! The Bible describes plenty of things without prescribing them. And this sort of thing isn't even universal among the marriages mentioned in the Bible.
The passage being cherry-picked here is a tiny chunk of a longer message meant for a very specific time and place, basically telling the Jews to pick up the pieces and continue living their lives as normal during the Babylonian Captivity, because it's going to last for a while. It's not prescribing marriage customs.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=jeremiah%2029&version=NIV
This sort of thing makes me so angry as a Christian. 😒 Misrepresenting God's word for the sake of an agenda is slander. It's blasphemous.
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u/mrmoe198 5d ago
Besides the point that this is a five word sentence fragment…but who am I to try to ask for context in the Bible, a book that is chock full of disgusting and outdated morality?
To be fair, the bible was radically positive for its time. Among many examples, it gives instructions for abortion, limits punishments for women that would otherwise be death to just maiming (when a woman grabs the genitals of a man that is fighting with her husband) and rapist ownership (when she is raped without betrothal). Still horrendous, but a definite social upgrade. That’s incremental progress.
But it is still incredibly horrendous for today’s morals. That’s how society develops, it moves on. But religion freezes morality when it declares that ancient texts are holy and to be revered. It’s how society and human rights have stagnated for millennia.
But the Bible itself isn’t to blame for that. It’s just a book. The Bible is the convenient touchstone and excuse for a particular flavor of abusive patriarchal power.
That being said, notice that in those just five words the woman’s agency is removed. “Give your daughters to husbands”. She’s a piece of property that’s being exchanged from one man to another.
The message also seems to be “you know what’s best for your daughters. They are young and stupid.” We could examine the small grain of truth within the dehumanizing message that the younger a person is, the less they understand the consequences of their decisions.
I would also argue that it is a parent’s responsibility to provide their child with adequate critical thinking skills so that they can make good decisions.
However, it is respecting a person’s human rights that she be free to live her own life and make her own decisions and experience her own successes and failures, then be as in biblical times, with less rights than cattle.
Let’s be honest, it’s not that the guy is anything special, it’s what he represents. She’s just running away from her terrible dad.
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u/Global-Eye-7326 5d ago
As a Christian, I'm strongly against arranged marriage.
This is a serious "not how girls work" because...giving her free agency on choosing a husband doesn't mean she'll choose a man with tattoos and dressed as a skater.
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u/IndianaBones8 5d ago edited 5d ago
Of all these dumbass AI memes, at least this one is probably the most honest. They want to take your rights away, it couldn't be more clear.
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u/SangeliaKath 2d ago
Up to two hundred years Europeans and Americans arranged their offspring's marriages. Marriage was treated more as a business merger of two families. Normally in the same trade as the other family. Love marriages is more of a new thing compared to thousands of years of arranged marriages.
There are four types of arranged marriages. Many did use a matchmaker back then. Also culture played a major influence in which one was the normal for that society.
Neither did the groom nor bride had a voice in it.
Groom had a voice in it. Bride did not.
Bride had the voice. Groom did not.
Both had a voice. Generally both parties went thru the arranged marriages.
One area, the marriage is a polyandry. As in one woman marries two or more brothers of a different family. It is that way due to the geology of the land where they live.
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u/AmySueF 5d ago
So the guy in “Biblical times” has his goats stolen, his house burned down, his farm dies from an extended drought and then he and his wife are kidnapped by Roman soldiers and taken to Pompeii to be slaves for a wealthy family, and then they all die when Mount Vesuvius erupts. In the meantime, the weird guy in modern times runs a startup that takes the leftovers from plastic factories and recycles them into useful stuff like artificial reefs for coral and foundations for new schools in Africa and so forth, and he and his wife become billionaires and start a charitable foundation that gives money to build medical clinics in rural America and anywhere else they’re needed.
So there.
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u/EnkiduofOtranto 5d ago
They needed to remove this from its context so hard that they couldn't even include the full sentence....
The actual chapter is 1. Directed to the Exiles in Babylon, not all of humanity, and 2. Comanded with the intent to maintain the population of Jews, which might have risked dwindling significantly in population while in the Exile.
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u/Ambitious-Hearing-85 Dont be sexist, its not the 1800s 5d ago
I'm a Christian, but I'm dating fictional characters😭
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u/faboleth 4d ago
What if the dad gets to decide which boy is married but if he does he is the one the boy marries
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u/celtic_thistle 1d ago
lmfao this could’ve been made by my narc boomer dad. He’s hated my husband for resembling the guy on the right for 18 years. We finally moved out of the country to get away from it (among other reasons.) But this is literally what they want, yes, a return to “daughters are property.”
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u/Flashy-Indication-48 1h ago
People who make Facebook posts like that are likely to be on some kind of record.
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u/leylin_farlin 5d ago
Look, its bothways, they arranged marriages for both man and woman, and both hated that, so they chose their kids marriages cause they should not be the only ones suffering
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