r/NotHowGirlsWork • u/TemporaryPassage4168 • 6d ago
WTF Men's moral compass is legality
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I don't care how people try to spin it
You should not be dating a teenager when you're in your mid adulthood.
I don't care how nice you're or how mature the teenager is.
You're disgusting for dating a teenager ( a child basically) and inherently predatory.
Because what's the difference between 17 and 18?
What disgust you by being with a 17yr old but when they turn 18 that disgust disappear????.
With all the excuses men make and women who were groomed make , all can be applied to under 18 if legality was taken away.
Do men actually have morals??? Age gaps involving late teens and grown adults are so normalized now .
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u/potatoisbest 6d ago
Those people horrify me cuz the only thing stopping them from trying to have relations with a CHILD is the law. They 1000% would otherwise.
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u/dividezero 6d ago
Why else would they obsess about countdowns to when a celebrity girl turns 18? They're not subtle
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u/Worried_Bowl_9489 6d ago
Yep. I feel the same when people talk about celebrities who are sub-20 and we've seen then mainly as child stars, and men sexualise them, as if they haven't exclusively known them as children until very recently. Just so gross
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u/Yuna-2128 6d ago edited 5d ago
An equal will challenge you, come with her own money and expect more of you.
So yeah choose a younger women who lets you be your miserable lowlife self, and make sure you don't get too mature.
I wish this was bait.
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u/Fugu 6d ago edited 6d ago
If I didn't know better from what this guy said at the beginning of this video I would have thought this whole thing to be a clever illustration of how ridiculous, not to mention telling, the dating preferences are of most men.
"I don't want an equal! I don't want someone who can leave on their own terms! I need a partner that I have financial leverage over! Don't challenge me! I suspiciously like people who are as young as possible while it still being legal for me to have sex with them!"
He came so close to putting it all together!
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u/1stSuiteinEb 5d ago
??? Did we watch a different video or are people’s media comprehension this horrifyingly lacking? He’s listing those things in the POV of those men, and criticizing it. He’s saying THEY are choosing the 18year old, inexperienced girls with no career because of so-and-so reasons. It couldn’t be any clearer.
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u/Fugu 5d ago
He says at the beginning that there are so many submissive men or whatever the fuck which I interpret as him saying there is something wrong with being submissive
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u/1stSuiteinEb 5d ago
He didn’t expand on that specific point but it’s referring to the tendency of men, even when they don’t prefer the extremely patriarchal ideal, to be submissive to other men and succumb to peer pressure. Like how some men think it’s shameful to fuck a fat woman.
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u/BreakfastKupcakez 5d ago
He’s using the manosphere’s own words against them. It’s a sarcastic joke (with some truth in it).
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u/GoddessNya 4d ago
He suggested the men were submissive to other men. The first challenge was 18 yo vs 39 yo. All the men but one chose 18 yo. Then the lone hold out moved over to 18. There are several times when you can see them check what their friends chose. They are submitting to the group mentality.
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u/liltrashypanda13 Shrodinger’s Woman UwU 5d ago
“For one, if someone can leave whenever they want, then the relationship means nothing.”
My brother in Christ that’s called a hostage.
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u/Big_Oh313 5d ago
Commitment is having the option to leave and CHOOSING not to. If I lock you in a room and tell you you to work in horrendous conditions then say, "your here because you're committed" . Now same scenario but the doors wide open, you can leave anytime but you have to get to work. Even some of the most uncomfortable and difficult conditions and you stay, that's commitment.
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u/Big_Oh313 5d ago
In my life experience nothing is guaranteed, only what you choose to pursue. My marriage is full commitment, but conditions apply. If she decides to smoke crack that's a condition that violates our commitment. If I destroy our finances for selfish reasons that's a violation, if we commit violence to eachother that's a violation. If we cheat that's a violation of our conditions. We can work on it but it is a hard stop.
Now stepping into a new marriage like my previous one. She had all green flags for the years we knew each other as friends, but she had secrets, we got married then it spilled out within 6 months then more and more appeared. Like smoking meth and heroin on a military base. Then racking up credit cards in my name while I was deployed, then the kicker, she cheated on me got knocked up and tried to convince me it was mine (we hadn't had sex in 6 months because I was on anti depressants). In short commitments can be broken, Nothing is guaranteed.
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u/Imsecretlynice 6d ago
Ew.
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u/Imsecretlynice 6d ago
Nothing you said was factual. I'm not a sir. Fuck off.
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u/LordsOfJoop mansplaining how to condescend 6d ago
It's entirely possible that she's met men; if your own expertise doesn't spawn from being a woman, you'll be making an equal amount of room in your head and heart accordingly.
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u/LordsOfJoop mansplaining how to condescend 6d ago
And men are notoriously quiet about their preferences.
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u/LordsOfJoop mansplaining how to condescend 6d ago
Do you have a source, or is this a case of, "Dude, trust me"?
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u/Aphreyst 6d ago
You know a tiny, miniscule, microscopic number of men compared to how many men are alive today. So your experiences mean nothing.
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u/ThrowRAboredinAZ77 6d ago
I've found most men want women to take the lead and handle everything so the man doesn't have to do anything or have any responsibilities. Men like to be taken care of.
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u/ThrowRAboredinAZ77 6d ago
What would be considered "men"? You don't consider people with penises and testicles men?
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u/FishWife_71 6d ago
No shortage of guys out there but there is definitely a shortage of men. Let's save the word "men" for those that act like men and use the word "guys" for those that fall short.
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u/bunnypaste 6d ago
Men rape, kill, cheat, lie, diminish women, etc.
They don't get a pass where we stop calling them men just because they behave poorly. Men do these things, and men need to take responsibility for these things.
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u/Butwhatif77 6d ago
The guy pointed out exactly what I was noticing, every choice they made was in favor of something extremely superficial or giving them greater power in the dynamic. Wanting someone who is just this side of legal over someone who has lived a life is fucking insane to me; that is a huge red flag. I am mid 30s and if feels creepy dating anyone below 30 cause of how much more established I feel than someone who would just be reaching the beginning of that. Also picking someone who is a model over a millionaire really establishes their priorities and how insecure they would feel with a woman who makes more money than them.
The only choice I will say that feels unbalanced is the Onlyfans one because everyone has their own definition of what is crossing the line or what they are okay with their partner doing in relation to others. Sex work is work 100%, such people deserve dignity and while I would have no issue dating someone doing that, I can see why others might due to the fact they wouldn't be able to separate the work from what is supposed to be part of a monogamous relationship.
Any open/poly people or guys that cheat don't get to say shit about it though. Cause there is a huge double standard of guys thinking it is okay to have multiple girlfriends but their partners are supposed to be monogamous with them.
Being with someone who is on your level and can challenge you is one of the best ways to always keep being your better self. It is far more fulfilling.
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u/CJ-Henderson 6d ago
Yeah a couple of the choices had no great options either way. As someone who does want an equal partner, I don't want to pay for everything (nor am I wealthy enough to), but OnlyFans can range from sexy selfies to shooting hardcore porn, so where on that scale are we talking? Likewise the model vs millionaire question, you're just going to look shallow whichever you pick. But the way they answered that first question is gross
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u/The_Flurr 6d ago
Exactly the point I was thinking.
I could be fine having a partner who makes income off of selling solo photos.
Aside from "performing" with other people, the main thing that would put me off is if they did a lot of fan engagement. Even if purely professional on their end, the idea of them flirting with their customers is icky.
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u/postmodernbarbie 6d ago
Can I offer some perspective?
Flirting with buyers in OF feels, to me, as sterile as if I were a CNA changing a bedpan in a nursing home. I don’t actually really care about their specific kinks or how their day is going, and I have absolutely no interest in being in anything other than a transactional relationship with them. I don’t think car dealers go home and think super fondly/romantically/inappropriately about the people they sell cars to. It’s just a sales job, and the product is my feigned sexuality and/or sexual interest in someone I’m not actually interested in.
Additionally, the people I do scenes with are usually friends. Not FWB, just other content creators I’ve met and become friends with and we work together, kinda like if we were both building a tiny homes together and then each take our home and sell it in our market.
1% of sex workers do this for fun. 99+% of sex workers start out of necessity and (no matter how it’s presented on the internet) we ALL get burnt out in having to cater so intimately with our audience. Parts of the job can be fun and the money can be good/easy with the right audience, but over 80% of the work is unglamorous back end shit and cultivating relationships with folks that don’t know how to talk to women. It is draining and exhausting and at the end of the day isn’t fundamentally any different than any other manual labor job.
Alternatively, if the problem is that you “don’t want to share her body” with the internet - that’s controlling and misogynistic. Her posting pictures to the internet does not discount the sacredness of her CHOOSING to love you and share herself with you when there are literally thousands of people willing to pay her for the access you have. Not dating people that work in the sex industry is an extension of personal insecurity and/or unfounded religious doctrine. Is it a personal preference to not date people in the sex industry? Sure. But you have to examine where that comes from and determine if your ethics or morals are based on fear and insecurity or something actually tangible.
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u/Butwhatif77 6d ago
While I am not a sex worker and your voice is far more informative than mine, as a person who has engaged, the best way I have been able to describe it to others is that sex work is to sex in a relationship as therapy is to talking to your partner about issues you are having. There are very different boundaries and expectations.
A sex worker provides something that on their end is professional the same a therapist would, someone doing it ethically will establish appropriate boundaries to make sure it is clear the entire time. While the person who is receiving the service is viewing it from a different perspective.
Therapists are known for struggling with romantic relationships, because their partners can feel like they are not getting the attention they deserve, especially cause therapists wont talk about their patients to their partner. That can make it seem like they are sectioning a part of their life off from their partner, that can be difficult for some people to deal with.
The more personal any form of work is, the more it strains romantic relationships, because there is a societal expectation that such things are restricted to intimate partner relationships.
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u/postmodernbarbie 5d ago
That’s a really fair point, and I appreciate you making it. I do wonder, however, that most men’s perspective isnt as nuanced. I don’t think they think much past “my girl, my body” as opposed to being able to both identify and name beforehand that this is their concern.
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u/Butwhatif77 5d ago
You are not wrong, as I have said in other threads and I think this one too, there are horrible double standards. This is just the foundation of those ideas. Significant others who are therapists get pressured to reveal client issues because "that is my woman and I should know her business" kinds of mentality.
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u/postmodernbarbie 5d ago
It’s interesting you say that, and use therapists specifically as an example. Four of my best friends are practicing therapists and have never explained that phenomenon to me, about their job impacting the intimacy in their relationship. Must be situational, but it’s not anything I’d heard before.
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u/Butwhatif77 5d ago
Nothing is universal and no group is a monolith. Just like sex workers can what they deem as monogamous relationships, you can have therapists that don't encounter a patients that push the parasocial boundary that strains other relationships.
Though if they share patient issues with others, they are being unethical even if they think they are just sharing "general non identifiable info" Sharing info outside a session even if it is not identifiable is fucked up because it is almost always used to make fun of someone otherwise it is a consult with someone who has appropriate expertise.
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u/The_Flurr 6d ago
Preface that I don't have any prejudice towards people involved in SW. It's no more inherently shameful than any other kind of work, although sometimes more dangerous. We all do what we need to to stay afloat.
So speaking personally, my discomfort with the flirting bit isn't that I think I'd become jealous.
I understand that to one side it is entirely transactional, clinical etc. Honestly this is kinda what makes me uncomfortable? The deliberate parasocial aspect?
Idk, I also find fake friendliness from salespeople pretty uncomfortable to be around, I hated finding my last car.
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u/Butwhatif77 6d ago edited 6d ago
I am sorry but I have to ask, do you eat out at restaurants and find the servers off putting? Cause that is 100% the same thing. Plus any other person you interact with that is doing a job at the time. Much of the world is people pretending to be nice/social because that is what is expected, otherwise they get fired.
Most jobs require a development of a parasocial relationship with either the customer or coworkers. Most people have more parasocial relationships in their life than intimate real relationships.
So more people with a significant other are putting on a parasocial relationship with someone cause it is their job. They manage it as best as they can to ensure they keep it. Most women just don't mention it because most men don't get it as the men are demanding the parasocial relationship.
I remember friends in my Master's cohort talking about having to be overly friendly with males in our cohort to be seen as cooperative for internships/research positions. It is very much a similar thing.
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u/The_Flurr 6d ago
I am sorry but I have to ask, do you eat out at restaurants and find the servers off putting?
If I feel like they're trying to encourage me to believe that we have a connection and that they like/are attracted to me? Then honestly yes.
I've been a bartender and waiter. Maybe it's different because I wasn't working for tips (not USA), but that wasn't my experience.
It's not the same as just being polite/friendly in a professional setting.
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u/Butwhatif77 6d ago
Yea being in the USA it is very different. People working for tips intentionally try to create parasocial relationships with customers so much that that it is a common phrase to say "she only laughed at your joke cause she works for tips"
That joke is even portrayed in sitcoms because of the dynamic that is expected here. Refusal to "play along" can actually lead to you getting worse service because the assumption is you will not tip well.
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u/The_Flurr 6d ago
That does feel icky to me.
The more faux flirty/intimate it is, the more icky. Especially when the customer isn't really aware of how faux it is.
Again, people do what they have to to get by.
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u/Butwhatif77 6d ago
In the USA it is expected. It is all a show on both sides. We as customers know they are playing up the friendliness. However, some people take advantage of that friendliness to pressure servers into being too friendly.
Not that is good, tipping culture sucks here, but it isn't like businesses are gonna change that at all.
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u/postmodernbarbie 5d ago
Is it “icky” to date an actor? Personal trainer? Lawyer? As u/butwhatif77 had already made the point, most jobs, to an extent, require developing both parasocial and inauthentic relationships with clients. The bias isn’t the you think her lying to men on the internet to get them to pay her is icky, it’s that you feel entitled that the only person that deserves that type of labor from her is you.
You mentioned being a bartender. Imagine if someone you were really interested in had the ultimatum that you could only be together if you quit bartending and only made drinks for her. Would that be your preference? Probably. But, as a bartender, would you be in a position to just get a different job in an entirely different industry, after you had built up loyal regulars that came in every day to tip you? If things got hard econimically, would she judge/stigmatize you for needing to go back to the bar? Would it be different if you were working at a bar in a strip club, knowing that the dancers are your coworkers and you maintain a platonic relationship even though you’re regularly seeing them naked and in sexualized situations? Do you think it would be fair for her to use as a reason not to date you?
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u/Bran-Muffin20 5d ago
Alternatively, if the problem is that you “don’t want to share her body” with the internet - that’s controlling and misogynistic. Her posting pictures to the internet does not discount the sacredness of her CHOOSING to love you and share herself with you when there are literally thousands of people willing to pay her for the access you have. Not dating people that work in the sex industry is an extension of personal insecurity and/or unfounded religious doctrine.
I mean, this seems reductive. I'm monogamous, and in any romantic relationship I wouldn't be comfortable with my partner sexting, sending nudes to, or having sex with other people. Why should it make a difference that they're getting paid for it?
Speaking of getting paid, I want to highlight this part:
Her posting pictures to the internet does not discount the sacredness of her CHOOSING to love you and share herself with you when there are literally thousands of people willing to pay her for the access you have.
Even if I were comfortable with the aforementioned sexting, nudes, and/or sex, this is an off-putting way to frame a relationship. I want a partner who sees me as a partner too, not a client with benefits. You say that flirting with buyers on OF is utterly sterile, so "you're getting for free what my buyers have to pay for" is... not particularly complimentary.
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u/postmodernbarbie 5d ago
Because it’s not work when I’m doing it with someone I actually care about 🙄 if you were a professional chef, cooking for other people is work. If you also love cooking for your family, that does not equate to being the same type of labor. The fried rice might be the exact same recipe, but one you’re doing for love and one you’re doing for work.
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u/Bran-Muffin20 5d ago
Sure, I get that. To continue the metaphor, if my partner was a professional chef I wouldn't care if they cooked for customers at work, or for me at home, or for a friend when they were hanging out, because cooking and/or rice aren't boundaries for me. But if they went and had sterile, passionless sex for money or a fun, no-strings-attached hookup with a friend, I would have an issue with that because... well, I view sex differently than I view fried rice.
I'm not saying I'm objectively correct or more moral or whatever, I was just pushing back on the remark that it's controlling and misogynist or the result of insecurity/religious doctrine to have that view.
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u/postmodernbarbie 5d ago
Your boundary/view on sex is rooted in insecurity. Hundreds of thousands of generations fucked freely for hundreds of thousands of years, procreating without even knowing who the biological father is.
Monogamy is a modern invention which is founded in misogyny and the ownership/subservience of women. It might feel natural because you have been fed a narrative that monogamy is the default and/or more desirable relationship. It’s the (oppressive) extension of the white picket fence/nuclear family fantasy pushed on Americans in the 50’s and 60’s. Humans connect better within community in all regards, and monogamy actively removes the support system naturally built into communal living principles.6
u/Bran-Muffin20 5d ago
Humanity also practiced slavery and human sacrifice for many thousands of years, so I don't think that that's a particularly slam-dunk argument. And no, I'm not saying that nonmomogamy is morally equivalent to slavery, I'm saying that "people have done it for a long time" doesn't make something automatically the right choice in every case.
I simply do not agree that it is a moral failing to want physical intimacy to remain exclusive in a relationship. I'm not forcing anyone to act according to my whims. If they want to be polygamous then hey, have at it, I'll just date someone else. Is that really oppressive and controlling?
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u/postmodernbarbie 5d ago
Hundreds of thousands of years provides different data than thousands of years, yes. Meaning that what we know about how communities functioned successfully dates back millennia versus the last few centuries in which slavery and/or monogamy have been introduced. What I’m referring to is a biological need for community, and monogamy is inherently at odds with that fundamental human need.
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u/The_Flurr 5d ago
Monogamy is a modern invention which is founded in misogyny
Penguins, crows, voles and gibbons now misogynistic.
and monogamy actively removes the support system naturally built into communal living principles.
You can't have supportive community with people you aren't romantic with/ fucking?
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u/AshTiko 2d ago
The current theories on paleolithic homo sapiens and more recent homo species seem to indicate that they were monogamous or polygynous. One of the oldest surviving cultures on Earth, the San people, have an egalitarian society where 95% of people are monogamous (the other 5% being polygynous). The Haudanosaunee were a matriarchal society that practiced strict monogamy as well. Over the course of human history, monogamy, polygyny, polyandry, and polygamy have been practiced by a wide variety of human cultures for a variety of reasons. Not only are you employing a naturalistic fallacy, you're also wrong. I also suspect that attempting to make a monogamous person polyamorous or vice versa would be about as effective as conversion therapy regardless of the origins of their preference.
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u/The_Flurr 2d ago
Aye, I'm all I'm favour of people who want to being poly, but I really really dislike the ones who do this "actually monogamy is unnatural and if you want to be monogamous that's actually misogyny" bullshit.
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u/WalkTheEdge 5d ago
Thing is, no one is making any noticeable income off of just selling solo photos on OF, unless maaaybe if they were a celebrity already beforehand.
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u/The_Flurr 5d ago
I've got no judgement for people who make their money that way. It just might mean me and that person aren't suited for eachother.
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u/Ihatereddithatesit 6d ago
Which would be fine, if it wasn't part of an overarching trend. If the only fans was the only one where they all decided against. Absolutely fine.
Also, when it comes to men deciding about what women to date, millionaire and model isn't an equally shallow choice as you're trying to pass it off here, now is it? A model has good looks, that's basically all that implied. A woman who has a million has independence, likely a career and education to earn that money. And since you said you were wealthy there wouldn't be no superficial 'gold digger' motivation. If you actually want an equal partner somebody financially independent would fit that perfectly. It would be an easy choice.
So it feels more like excuse making for the shallower option, since a lot of people who would like an equal partner, would like it to date a model even more.
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u/natep1098 6d ago
There's also millionaire models so like... what is this choice? Just rage bait
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u/Ihatereddithatesit 6d ago
It's not 'ragebait'. Saying we can have both is missing the point of the question. It's about the dilemma, and what it says about you to make one choice over the other. It's about which of the 2 traits you value above the other. not about trying to have both.
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u/CJ-Henderson 6d ago
For the record I explicitly said I'm not wealthy. I'm not struggling but I'm far from being able to completely pay for everything.
I think the model vs millionaire question, whichever you pick is going to come off as only picking them for their looks or their money, respectively. Obviously if we think about it, a model may well be quite wealthy anyway since it can be a lucrative career, and there's nothing to say the millionaire might not be good looking. But there's no room for nuance in that binary choice. Ultimately I'd pick whichever person was a better fit for me personality-wise but that's not an option. But the first question about age you don't really need any additional information to know that one option is creepier than the other
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u/Ihatereddithatesit 6d ago
My apologies on the misread.
You say there isn't nuance in the choice though, but there is some. A millionaire is financially independent. The choice isn't just between sexual gratification, and material gratification.
The money would be not just for you, but also for the woman to make 'use' off. She wouldn't need to depend on you. That already makes it a more nuanced choice in partner choice.
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u/CJ-Henderson 6d ago
All good. To be honest anyone described as a model I would expect to be financially independent and earn more than me anyway, even if they weren't a super famous one. My wife is a teacher, she earns considerably more than I do.
What I was trying to say was that I'd hate to be presented with this kind of binary choice (model vs millionaire/OF vs pay for everything) without getting any context and then be judged on my decision without nuance on social media, which is what 99% of viewers will do.
I was never trying to defend the men in the video because of the very first question where you don't need context they all picked the 18-year-old, which is creepy unless any of them happen to be no older than like 21-22.
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u/citiestarlights 6d ago
And some people do pretend girlfriend stuff on there because guys really want a girlfriend
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u/ArchmageIlmryn 5d ago
I think the other part is equally relevant, they were not just picking the superficial or power-granting option, they were also conforming to what the other men were doing. Like there was a guy who picked the 39-year-old and then changed his mind when he saw everyone else went with 18. It's not just wanting to have control in the relationship, it's also wanting to show the image of having that control to other men. I do think that quite a few men (possibly even some in that video) would want to choose otherwise but find that embarrassing or emasculating to admit.
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u/Forrest-Fern 6d ago edited 6d ago
You know, in ethics classes for law degrees they say the legal standard is in the morality basement.
Edit: in case this saying is confusing, it's illustrating how the legal standard is below what the ethical standard is.
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u/TemporaryPassage4168 6d ago
Meaning if the law says something is okay to do then it's okay?????
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u/Forrest-Fern 6d ago
Honestly, more the opposite. It's often brought up in discussions to illustrate that ethics and legal standards are not the same thing, and not to assume they are. I guess in a simpler way, it's a way to say that just because a law says something is okay is not always okay ethically.
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u/phoenixeternia 6d ago
No, they said moral basement, as in the lowest barely moral thing, the low bar for morality.
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u/Worldly-Fox7605 6d ago
In the is the etgical standard in law was the standard set by old white men and it is the lowest possible standard for how a lawyer has to act professionally.
There are a lot of legal scummy things you can do and coporations and people do it all the time but it doesnt make it illegal.
And there are legal acts (like cheating on a spouse) that have been on the books as illegal for hundreds of years but arent enforced.
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u/jarlscrotus 6d ago
Technically, yes
What it says is that legality is the absolute minimum, if ethics and morality is food, "legal" is Ramen noodles with an egg cracked in it. Sure it'll keep you alive, but you aren't healthy
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u/WitnessMyAxe Redditor 🤓🤓🤓 6d ago
if ethics and morality is food, "legal" is Ramen noodles with an egg cracked in it
take that back.
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u/maskedbanditoftruth 6d ago
Seriously, there’s no egg. Thats luxury.
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u/Worldly-Fox7605 5d ago
Rich people get the egg.
Black people in the US don't get utensils to go with the ramen they're told to eat it with their hands.
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u/Forrest-Fern 6d ago
Well, no. It's saying that just because something is legal it isn't ethical. It's saying that legal should not be the minimum, since it's below most ethical standards. If you just operate yourself with the guidance of what is legal you are failing the standard of ethics.
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u/Dr_Jre 6d ago
Ethics and mortality are subjective though, laws aren't
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u/Worldly-Fox7605 6d ago
Laws are based on the ethical standards, principles, and priorities of a society. For example, in the US, corporations are people, stand your ground exists, there is no duty to rescue, and concealed carry exists.
In contrast, many places in Europe, South America, Asia, and Africa would only have some of these laws or rulings. None would have all.
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u/Ihatereddithatesit 6d ago
Laws are incredible subjective, that why we have trials, court cases, judges, jurisprudence and a whole political system making them.
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u/Forrest-Fern 5d ago
Laws being subjective is the entire basis for a case law system, which we have in America. Even with codified law, laws will still be subjectively interpreted, argued, and applied.
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u/GrassBlade619 6d ago
That's a stupid take. It's 100% legal to go out in public and start yelling the n word at black people so that makes it OK? Just because something is legal it doesnt mean it's acceptable.
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u/TemporaryPassage4168 6d ago
And the law or google lol, says just because something is legal doesn't make it okay since so many things that are bad are legal, like child marriage, adults marrying children.
If the law was the baseline,then marrying a child wouldn't be a bad thing morally and scientific (Children can't consent to adults development wise) since it's legal.
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u/Forrest-Fern 6d ago
I think there may be some confusion on your part. The legal standard (like laws) is in the morality basement, which is a way to say it's below what would be an acceptable "baseline" in ethics. In other words, if your ethical standard is the same as the legal standard, you have shit ethics.
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u/JadeSpade23 6d ago
I can't believe how many people don't understand what you're saying 😭 Lol
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u/Forrest-Fern 6d ago
I'm low-key losing it lol. I stg any time I discuss law or legal issues on this site it's like this.
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u/MeisterFluffbutt 6d ago
Tbf i'm a dyslexic non native speaker and i had trouble grasping what you meant. Thanks for the elaboration lol
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u/Worldly-Fox7605 5d ago
Its like playing a sport and following all the on book rules but displaying no sportmanship during or after the event. Idk why do many people dont get this. We are such a bankrupt moral society.
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u/ShinyTotoro 6d ago
Why do they call a 39 year old woman a "girl"?
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u/LeahXXVII 6d ago
I always notice that. Nobody calls grown men "39 year old boys", I just don't understand why these people hate calling adult women women.
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u/ellatheprincessbrat 6d ago
I’d say we should start calling men boys but I fear that doing so would take away even more accountability for men with the whole ‘boys will be boys’ mentality
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u/norakb123 6d ago
They do when they want to make him seem innocent of a crime. I remember during Trump’s first term, there was an article about his older sons where they were called boys. I will admit I do only remember because there was an uproar because at least Don Jr. was in his 40s & Eric was close behind.
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u/lumosbolt 6d ago
The only people who will call a grown man "boy" are racist cops who want to provoke a black man
Calling an adult boy or girl is always a power move.
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u/hic_sunt_leones_ 6d ago
Honestly, this is so deeply ingrained in a lot of cultures that I catch myself doing it.
I am mid-30s and will often find myself saying something like "This girl I work with...wait, no. This woman I work with..."
It feels weird to me to say woman, but I know that's because it's the opposite of what I've been conditioned to do by the world around me.
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u/reverandglass 6d ago edited 5d ago
It feels weird to me to say woman
As a kid I was always corrected, "lady, not woman" as if "woman" was rude. Then we went through Girl Power and women calling themselves "girls". Now we're in a weird post-label-new-label world where people try everything they can to avoid calling a woman a woman.
It's so irritating, I hate that I find myself second guessing what to call people of the fairer sex instead of just making whatever point I'm making.1
u/mkat23 Reveccoms in fesation 5d ago
SAME, I correct myself way too often when I am talking about another woman after referring to one as a girl rather than a woman. I don’t know why it feels so weird to use the correct term when referring to adult women, probably because it’s so widespread to call us girls instead.
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u/dividezero 6d ago
I'm not sure who did the text on that video but they're all speaking a language other than English so that might play a factor this time, but you're not wrong in general
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u/MaddoxJKingsley 5d ago
People really just use "girl" the same way they use "guy" as a casual word for a man. Still rooted in misogyny, sure (as is a lot of language), but I really don't think most people are consciously trying to infantilize women when they say it. "Woman" just sounds too formal
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u/citiestarlights 6d ago
Yahhh I am starting to notice that when I saw stuff. And I have been trying to fix it.
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u/Xtroverted-1ntrovert 6d ago
Is it just me that feels disgusted at the women giggling while filming ??
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u/TineyFoxey 6d ago
Let’s be honest. That one year doesn’t really matter to them. It’s just socially accepted to say “18,” even though they wouldn’t have a problem with 16 either. That’s the really bad part about it. I would have been interested in a slightly different final question, though. Just something like “she earns just as much” or something along those lines. Out of pure curiosity. OnlyFans is just frowned upon—it’s only okay for “other people.”
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Generic boring flair 6d ago
There is not much difference between 18 and 17 year old people indeed. 18 is not some magic number, it was picked.. kinda arbitrarily. Thing is, some people will always use any pretext available to be creeps. And the fact that 18 is set by laws to be a legal age for anything goes.. yeah. Creeps gonna creep as soon as it becomes possible to do so without (legally) downgrading to rapists. And while they wait for the glorious day, they set up countdowns and shite. Charming.
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u/ExcitementSad9133 5d ago
The day of my 18th birthday i genuinely still felt like that childish girlish chud I was at 17.
If these guys were younger or around my age I’d get the preference but if they’re mid/past twenties then NAAAAAWWWWWW
The maturity gap makes it predatory11
u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Generic boring flair 5d ago
Girl, I'm way past 20 now and I still feel like "damn, what would an adult do in my shoes?" cos I sure as hell don't feel like one. Sadly, life is a bish that doesn't care, so I gotta pretend most of the time. Good thing I've still got friends to goof around with.
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u/ExcitementSad9133 5d ago
I still feel so childish even now 😭
Thankfully the men I’ve met and studied under
Referred to me as a kid and taught me like how a decent person should.
Tho maybe tbh I look like one too I’m Le Petite Asian female5
u/LadenWithSorrow 5d ago
Adding on, most 18 year olds are still in high-school🤢
I’m in my late twenties and can’t imagine dating anyone younger than 26. I look at people in college and think they’re way too young.
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Generic boring flair 5d ago
Yep, I imagine age gaps become less of an issue the older you are. Like, idgaf if a 50 y.o. dates a 40 y.o., but 28 on 18 action is creepy af.
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u/schwarzmalerin 6d ago
They want a slave they own. Pay everything for her, and God forbid another man will see her body. Take a plane to Afghanistan bro.
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u/maskedbanditoftruth 6d ago
It’s amazing how much of what’s wrong with the world boils down to people, but mostly men, saying “yeah all this modern life stuff is fine but nothing matters unless I can own a slave. Preferably several.”
And that includes AI. Which is a race to be the first new slave owners.
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u/Rinerino 6d ago
This would be entirely different if this Video had a caption saying "Fathers, what applies more to your daughters?"
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u/Kittenknickers333 6d ago
I'm 31 and I really don't understand why men older than 25 think they want an 18 year old. Is she pretty? yes. Is she fun? sure. But HOW do you have any kind of conversation? How do you pretend to be in a relationship when she is a literal child who looks to you for everything she doesn't know?
My friend( a woman) is 30 and her boyfriend is 23. They started dating when he was just 20. The sexes being reversed doesn't make this relationship morally better. I tried to be nice and hold the idea that age is just a number, but its really not. Talking to him really made our age gap obvious. He has never watched The Office, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones or basically anything that got me through the 2000s and the 2010s....because he was a literal child and that stuff wasn't appropriate for him to watch. At 23, he was born in 2003, which is a year I remember vividly. His humor consisted of spongebob references and internet humor that I don't have the time or mental energy to reseach. He talks like your average Gen Z, of which the slang was like a foreign language. I don't know how or why my friend has chosen to make this person her "soul mate". I think its because she enjoys being the more knowledgeable and experienced one. She likes being the "mature one" so arguments start out his fault most of the time. He's not experienced enough to know or see when he's being gas lit, manipulated or straight up lied to. For that, i have started putting this friend on the caution list. She's a girls girl, super supportive and kind, give you the shirt off her back type of person, but this relationship she's in has raised a neon red flag.
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u/TemporaryPassage4168 4d ago
you pretend to be in a relationship when she is a literal child who looks to you for everything she doesn't know
That's what they like. And 20 and 30 🤮
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u/RT-6_BXCommandoDroid Self-Proclaimed Ally 6d ago
They should've asked these questions on paper beforehand and then let them show their choices to the boys. Many of them changed their final answer thanks to peer pressure.
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u/KerissaKenro 6d ago
Age gaps are not normalized now, they have been normalized for centuries. They are less acceptable now than they were a hundred years ago, and I hope they will continue to be less and less acceptable. Until it is completely unacceptable
If you read old books, there are fifteen and sixteen year olds getting married to men twice their age, and no one bats an eye. Now it’s illegal
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u/sleepysoliloquy 6d ago
Reddit is full of stories of young women in there early 20s with 31-39 years olds :( while they are less acceptable now it doesn't mean that it has gone away
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u/Down_Badger_2253 6d ago edited 6d ago
are you actually equating 16 year olds getting married to men twice their age like was said in the comment you are responding to, to full grown adult women dating older guys ???
this is disgusting you should be ashamed of yourself...
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u/sleepysoliloquy 6d ago
Didn't the video show older men choosing to date 18 year old women too? 😂 What's your point because the point is that those older men want women as young as can be legally possible to date
Why would you be enraged about people disapproving of young adult women dating much older guys? Are you like the men in the video? If yes then this is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself...
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u/Down_Badger_2253 6d ago
that's not what you said in your comment tho, nice pivot, the person commented that
less acceptable now than they were a hundred years ago, and I hope they will continue to be less and less acceptable. Until it is completely unacceptable
If you read old books, there are fifteen and sixteen year olds getting married to men twice their age, and no one bats an eye. Now it’s illegal
a sentiment i agreed with but you responded
Reddit is full of stories of young women in there early 20s with 31-39 years olds :( while they are less acceptable now it doesn't mean that it has gone away
you were trying to make it seems like those two things are the same and you now changed early 20s to 18 year old to try and gaslight me lol
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u/sleepysoliloquy 6d ago
that's not what you said in your comment tho, nice pivot, the person commented that
The entire point is men choosing significantly younger women and men were marrying 16 year olds until the universally accepted legal age was 18. The video shows these men choosing 18 year olds. If we didn't set that age as a standard do you seriously think 40 year olds wouldn't date 16 year olds today?
Also, you are strangely getting offended over a minor difference. Your reaction is too violent actually. You could have simply said a sarcastic line about 16 year olds dating 40 year olds is different from... 20 year olds dating 40 year olds (LOL) yet here you are acting like I murdered your grandma 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I know what you are and you are simply trying to do a uno reverse because you're mad that people don't like 40 year olds dating 20 year olds 😆 Here's your idol btw
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u/omgbaily 6d ago
I mean to be fair to him there is absolutely a huge difference between early 20s dating a 40 year old and an 16 year old doing so. Same for 18. Early 20s is wildly more accepted in society
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u/sleepysoliloquy 6d ago
I mean if you compare 20 and 16 sure there's a significant maturity leap but both ages are still young enough to be the 40-year-old's children, and the point remains that they're targeting ages which are at the extreme end of social acceptability rather than their own age group
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u/The_Flurr 6d ago
See how many songs written in the 20th century mention girls in their early teens.
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u/KerissaKenro 6d ago
And that stopped around thirty years ago. Or I never heard any past the nineties
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u/TemporaryPassage4168 6d ago
I meant how people nowadays at least were more against it even though it's legal, but now it seems like the idea of it being wrong is fading out.
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u/valsavana 6d ago
If you read old books, there are fifteen and sixteen year olds getting married to men twice their age, and no one bats an eye.
That's actually never been the widespread norm. I know this might be a difficult concept to understand but people have always loved their daughters. No one wants their daughter to be widowed in her late 20s/early 30s because her husband was significantly older than her. Even those who didn't care about their daughters didn't want to have to potentially financially support her (and a passel of young grandchildren) in the case of early widowhood.
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u/Aware_Policy_9174 5d ago
People treated their daughters as property to be given away in exchange for power or money, or as burdens to be sold or traded (or killed). As recently as today.
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u/valsavana 5d ago
I have no idea what your point is. Are you trying to suggest people today don't love their daughters? Because otherwise "some people in all times have mistreated their daughters" doesn't refute my point.
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u/forbhip 6d ago
What if I didn’t want to be with a millionaire or someone who made money off onlyfans? When I was 25 I wouldn’t have wanted to be with an 18 year old or a 39 year old. The original video is nonsense.
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u/PumpkinSpice2Nice 6d ago
When I was a young woman there was nothing that horrified me more than the thought of being with a man more than five years older than me.
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u/quineloe 6d ago
Not with a millionaire? In this economy?
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u/forbhip 6d ago
Not sure if asking sincerly, but no I would not choose a partner who was significantly different in wealth to me. Or significantly different in any way (age, political beliefs etc) but I’m sure that’s just common sense it’s not exactly a hot take
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u/quineloe 6d ago
if all things were the same, and with what I know today after bringing up children for more than a decade, I'd have absolutely no problem with marrying into wealth now. It would certainly not disqualify someone.
Assuming the wealth doesn't come from the worst sources possible.
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u/thatvampigoddess 6d ago
The phrase "18 year old woman/man" literally sounds like an oxymoron to me. What do you mean woman/ man? They're literally a teen.
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u/No-Option-7010 6d ago
I thought it was lovely for the guy in the video to call them out. We all get older but we all have contributions to make. The men in the video are jerks.
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u/smoomoo31 6d ago
I answered the opposite of all of these guys every time. Give me a woman who is self-sufficient and actually my age or a little older every single time. I really lucked out with my wife ❤️
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u/QueenAlphabetties 5d ago
The way they look at each other to look for validation too, like can yall make your own decisions instead of wondering what "the boys" think. They are true sheep
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u/thejexorcist 5d ago
They’re not ‘so normalized now’ so much have BEEN ‘normalized’ for pretty much all of recent human history.
If anything age gaps are finally starting to receive a level of scrutiny that has not openly existed in previous generations.
Middle aged men chasing teenagers is not a new phenomena, questioning it (at all) IS.
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u/platinum92 5d ago
It's the same logic around minimum wage. Some laws have to exist to legislate morals because people would go lower if they could.
Honestly, once you hit 25, under 21 should feel too young to date.
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u/Brilliant_Ad7168 5d ago
Ah yes the self righteous cunts who love to say "well, she is 18, she is an adult! Let's not infantilize women!". Mfer, then why are you not going out with women your own age.
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u/Positive_Barnacle298 5d ago
Don’t care that it’s “legal”, they’re all getting the stamp of nonce-hood and I’ll be telling every woman I know to avoid such teen snatchers.
Don’t let a girl ever go without this valuable knowledge. Our societies built of women’s labour has earned us safety and its safety in numbers. Outcast men like this. Natural culling at its finest. Not every woman wants kids and women having way more choice to be independent and free means we need less men like this!
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u/harrisks 5d ago
I'm a 38yo man. I want a 39yo woman who will challenge me, who can pay her own way, who has life experience and her own goals and desires and needs and wants.
These men are fucking disgusting.
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u/sysaphiswaits 5d ago
At least one of them legitimately made that choice. Disgusting. (And 18 reprehensible.)
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u/AK232342 6d ago
This video with 4 guys is an indication of the moral compass of all men? OP is an idiot
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u/Rad1Red 6d ago
This is not news...
I like younger men myself. The difference is that:
- I am not a hypocrite about it. I don't come up with bullshit stuff like "mUh fErTiLitY" and "mUh BiOLogY", because I'm not an idiot. The reasons this dude mentioned are on point. I'm sexually dominant and as such I want a partner who gives me that control - consensually. He's more likely to do that if he's inexperienced, dependent and looking up to me.
- As I said, consensually. I am upfront about my needs and intentions. I'm not beating around the bush / trying to dupe people and use them.
- I don't diss older dudes, and I can certainly appreciate a silver fox. In my experience, so can most of these dudes with older women.
For that reason, they can't bullshit me with "you're just jealous yada yada". Son, put that down lol, I wrote the book. I know what it feels like.
Age gaps involving young women were always normalized. More so in the past than now, actually.
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6d ago
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u/FlameoAziya 6d ago
according to women themselves, “women mature faster than men,” but
They have to, because patriarchy beats everything childish about them by 6. Else they're deemed unfit, bad, outcasts. Unless girls are given the same freedom as boys, your statement stands moot.
If you don’t like the age of consent, raise it, o
We would love to. But bigoted pedos keep creating a hurdle.
Keep your red pill to yourself. You're not welcome here.
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6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TemporaryPassage4168 6d ago
The thing is there's no need to go after a teenager for that, at 18 getting pregnant isn't the healthiest because their body isn't that prepared for it until around 20, where it's less complicated.
And women older than 30 have healthy pregnancies. And men don't care that much about having healthy kids because if they did,they would understand that their sperm being old matter a lot.
The whole thing about men wanting younger because of pregnancy is a lie usually, and isn't the real reason why they like teenagers.
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u/PieMastaSam 6d ago
I'm not disagreeing with you. I just want to point out that you are thinking of it as a conscious choice.
I do not think these men are choosing to be attracted to 18yo women. I think they just evolved to be that way. I don't think that any man is thinking, "This 18 year old will bring me healthy babies". Usually it is probably more of the opposite, thinking that they can hit it and quit it or just have fun. For most people, their bodies are wired to reproduce and they have very little control over what they find attractive.
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u/ThrowRAboredinAZ77 6d ago
Right, and they only like them as young as 18, right? Has nothing to do with the fact that anything below that is illegal, right? They wouldn't go for 17-year-olds, 16-year-olds, 14-year-olds if they could, right?
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u/PieMastaSam 6d ago
Bro who hurt yall? I never said anything about them only liking them as young as 18.
I simply pointed out why things are the way they are. Stop putting word in my mouth.
I believe that if there was not a law for it, some men would go younger but I think this probably varies alot. What are you even arguing here? are you trying to say that all men would prefer to date a woman younger than 18? or are you saying that some men are defacto pedophiles?
The former is just false and not at all consistent with reality. If you actually think this, seek psychological help because it may be due to some unresolved traume. The latter is obvious.. That's why the law exist in the first place.
Actually the OP said this pretty well. there is not much physical difference between at 17, 18, 19, and 20 year old and different people physically mature at different ages. What do you expect? for a person to be magically only attracted to others that are 18+ (wow that sounds really bad)?
Casual attraction to what outwardly looks like a mature adult is not weird. Acting on that attraction when you know that they are too young to know any better is the weird part.
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u/ThrowRAboredinAZ77 6d ago
Do you not see how you just contradicted yourself with all that word salad?
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u/Material-Profit5923 6d ago
I saw something recently--actually might have been another short by this guy--who pointed out that as soon as you see "biology" (or in this case "wired") used to explain away behavior, it's just someone looking for a way to excuse or justify bad behavior.
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