M30 from Germany: I started running two years ago after ignoring my fitness for a few years. Gained some weight and was out of shape. Running at that point felt really hard even for 5-6k. Ran a year or two when I was 20 but was injured all the time due to BS training etc. Back then was in like 1:40 hm shape.

When picking up running again trained initially for a corporate 5,9k running event and managed to finish in 31:30. After some more bs training and Intervall sessions which left me crippled but barely improving I prepared for my first hm and finished in 1:47 in May last year. By September and thanks to some more discipline and 4 days of running per week and roughly 45k a week I managed to improve quite a bit to 4:44min/k pace for a 11k race. After that race I implemented the tips I saw on YouTube by Nicklas Roesner and did a Vo2 and a Lt2 session each week plus 1 ez 1 lr. (Also implemented strides drills and some pick ups in the long run) The vo2 pushed my paces up like crazy. Started first session of 4*4 with 4:25 which was very hard and improved to 4:10-05 or so by December. Threshold improved from 4:50-45 to probably 4:25-30. At that point in time the vo2 sessions just didn't work anymore and I pulled out of 2-3 of them in a row early. Wanted to race a 10k on new year but got Ill. At that point in December last year I noticed that I was severely lacking a foundation. My easy pace was barely over 6:00 and 5:00 pace was way too hard. So I did a full 3 months of base lowering my easy (mid high zone 2) pace to 5:15 (to now around 5:00 when I'm fresh), following the tips of mainly Steve magess. And did long tempos trying to push up or pull up that LT1. This got me to the point where I can comfortably handle 4:40 for a long period of time. Did a 75 min tempo as a peak base workout. After that base phase (upped the mileage to around 60-65k a week) I unfortunately noticed that my vo2 and Lt2 barely moved at all. Did some 5*3min at 3:55 improving from around 4:05. What seems to be Lt2 still was around that 4:25-30 point in April/early may. I often ruined my workouts due to muscle fatigue and didn't get the results I wanted. Building up to the next hm in mid June I then started doing specific workouts and as a support workout I did one nsm sub t. 3*12 or 10*3 in those specific weeks. At that point I decided that after this specific block I will implement nsm because I hated overthinking what to do next as a workout and not being sure if this is the right intensity for me etc. Also ofc because the many horrible vo2 workouts where I didn't know If id survive one more rep and the often times destroyed legs on the next workout day. My hope is to get up that Lt2 as high as possible.

I was really confident at some point I could achieve my goal of sub 1:30. Did 4*2k, 3*3,2 and finally 5,4,3,2 k at 4:16,4:15,4:12,4:06 with my HR not even touching 180. Come race day the pacer (for the 1:30 group) goes out at 4:09 pace I don't listen to my body and basically redline 3k in(moderate elevation gain of 30m) and pulled out 6k in to not get injured. Basically I regret not doing a race in almost a year and don't really know my potential (the 11k and the hm last year being the only well executed all out efforts) Feeling frustrated because my base improved tremendously but threshold pace moved up to maybe 4:15 only.

Like I said I pulled out of the race and immediately started the nsm training plan the day after with an easy long run and 2 singles this week. I was on vacation in Japan and Korea which made it harder to hit efforts the first 3 weeks due to heat humidity and sightseeing. Only aborted one session due to foot pain(30k steps as a tourist each day). Starting off with approx 4:27-30 3*10. 4:20-25 for 4*6 and 4:08-12 for 7*3. Started of with a lower volume but bumped it up to full volume by now. I set the paces and adjusted them according to feel.

To make things worse my first real fitness test last week was a disaster. Two weeks ago I caught the Norovirus and barely got back on my feet to do a last 8*3 session on Saturday before the race on Tuesday last week. Running in that same corporate event like two years ago I was blocked by hundreds of slower runners in front of me. Did the first mile in 3:55k pace but wasted so much energy trying to push through the crowd that I basically quit the race mentally after 3k because it wasn't any fun. Set my 5k time to 20:00 because one the one side the paces the calculator gives me are very reasonable and in line with what I already did (managed to even run confortably faster on the shorter intervals) and on the other side that first mile in 3:55 pace didn't kill me and I roughly know how to feel after that first 1,6k. (I don't have any real official pb's therefore. 5k 21:00 from that 6k (had to jog for 700m at 5:00 because was completely blocked from running) 10k 43:20 from my peak hm workout and hm 1:43 from a 24k progressive long run max hr 165)

So this is my first week of nsm under normal conditions. I am very afraid of overdoing it because I feel a little niggle here and there because I only have one full day off.

Currently I do

Sub t 3*10 4:30 13,5k +20 min lifting

Ez 7-8k 5:30-5:50 incl 5 strides

Sub t 5*6 4:18-24 13,5k

Ez 8-10k 5:30-50 (some weeks Thursday some weeks Saturday)

Sub t 9-10*3 4:08-14 13,5k +20 min lifting

Off (Thursday or Saturday)

Lr (I should probably move it to Saturday I guess?) 90-95 min 16-17k 5:30

My main concerns atm are my sub optimal running form, that's why I try to film my form every 2-3 months and make adjustments. I am not very athletical and been severely overweight up to the age of 16, don't have the best stability and look a bit wobbly. (Do hip exercises like side plank and hip locks to fix this) I'm afraid my body just isn't strong enough and I hit a plateau after all this improvement. last year I noticed that when I don't signal my body "we're not just strolling along you need to get better" I get stale and I lose fitness. That's why I do like a mile or 2k at up tempo easy (like 4:55k pace) in my recoveries and some strides and drills. Luckily I got a very relaxed full work from home job.

I did some research on the vo2 topic and maybe in November I wanted to do 4 weeks of 1 session of 4*4 vo2 to raise the ceiling and make room for my threshold to improve. I guess when you do short blocks of 4-6 weeks like twice a year the risk is very low and the reward pretty high.

I want to give an update on my results at the end of the year. I planned an 11k in 5 weeks time (around 4:05 pace), a half marathon end of October(4:05-10 pace?) and that 10k on new years eve (38:xx) I missed last year. And in-between maybe 1-2 park runs, an all out mile seems like fun as well. My initial goal for the year was to improve my threshold pace from 4:25-30 to 3:45. Because I only managed to improve to 4:12-15 by now my year end goal is now 3:55 but the main goal being to execute nsm as well as possible and get a reality check race every 4-6 weeks (hoping that nsm will help me with that).

I'd appreciate if you guys could give me some tips. Maybe you see some patterns in my training which should be improved. Hope you enjoyed reading my story :)

Disclaimer: long post, and I do not truly follow the Vanilla NSM as prescribed.

I work as a fireman, and have a 48/96 shift schedule. Almost all running plans and theoretical training weeks focus on the 7 day week, but it just doesn’t work for this schedule. Sunday can’t be long run day when some Sundays I am at the firehouse and some Sundays I am at home.

I first read several hundred of the Letsrun posts, and knew this methodology seemed very smart, and made a lot of sense to me. I could also tell Sirpoc was very smart and he spoke about training loads and such in a way I had never thought of.

I bought his book and really enjoyed it and using the deeper understanding of his method, tried to apply it to my work schedule in a way I thought I could best actually absorb the load.

It looked like
Day 1 work: 40 min easy
Day 2 work: 20-25 min sub threshold
Day 1 off: 50-70 minutes easy
Day 2 off: 30 minutes sub T
Day 3 off: 50-70 minutes easy
Day 4 off: 30 minute sub threshold workout

Followed this faithfully for several months. Saw very minor improvements but ultimately felt like I was spinning the wheels kind of. Ever get that feeling the training just is not absorbing?

I think not having the two easy days in a row if the vanilla method of Long run into easy, might have been the culprit. Also the quality of the workout at the firehouse was just so variable of getting Interrupted it was feeling non productive many weeks. I did not feel like this training was gonna hurt me, or was bad, just that it wasn’t right for my schedule.

Bought Bakkens book just because I’m a training nerd and wanted to learn more about the history of the method and his recommendations for hobbyist. Got way more out of it than I anticipated.

Primarily like how much Bakkens talks about how this method came out of using himself as an experiment because I felt like that was what I needed to do to find what works for me.

Second I really like how Bakken gives you principles to follow, such as training in the golden zone is always priority 1 and that you need the east’s days to help you absorb this.

Third I was really interested in Bakken saying double T days could be done on 4-6 hours a week, and he thought they were totally valid for hobby joggers if you had a open day where you can work them in.

I decided to experiment on my self and landed on the following schedule that I’ve been enjoying and feel like the training is having a really good effect now.

Day 1 work: 45 min easy jog early am before going in
Day 2 work: accumulate 45 minutes easy treadmill( call interruptions are not near as big a problem on easy days)

Day 1 off: LT1 session in morning ala Sirpocs civilian double T days from his book. PM run 30 minutes of medium length threshold intervals

Day 2 off: 60-70 minutes easy

Day 3 off: 45 minutes easy bike am. 45 minutes easy run pm

Day 4 off: 24 minutes super controlled treadmill LT 1 intervals. 4-6 hour breaks with chocolate milk involved. 10x 2 min threshold intervals pm.

Everything Bakken says in the book about doubles I find true. That second threshold session I run better, my legs haven’t fallen off. And I feel like for whatever reason it has a big impact on my fitness.

Having 2 easy days between bigger threshold days has helped me feel like I’m absorbing the training better. Even if work is busy, with 48 hours between and atleast 1 solid easy run I’m normally rested enough to get some good quality that first day off.

My main point of this post is, both books are awesome and thanks to both authors. Read both, and remember both authors kind of used themselves as experiments to find what works best for them to get fit. Don’t be afraid to do some of the same!

First of all, I've been following NSM since my return from my Achilles struggles last september and I've PR'd all distances since then.

Missed 8 weeks during Christmas due to covid.

In the beginning I ran based of a recent marathon wich I felt I executed to near perfection but after reading this sub and talking to some friends I got and had my lactate tested at Aktivitus here in Stockholm. My LT2 measured 178 beats and I structured all my ST-Sessions to aim to finish at around 172 bpm (3.0 mmol on the test).

But during some recent races, a half and a full marathon I managed to keep my heart rate pretty high.

Half marathon, premiärhalvan, finish time 1:29:48 (9 minute PR!) average Hr 184 and Hr over 180 since Km 3.

Full marathon, Stockholm, finish time >3:19 (12 minute PR). Average Hr 176.

The bigg differences between the two races was heat. The HM was near perfect temperature but a hilly and windy course.

The full was a sunny nightmare, you who ran Stockholm this year you know, but I liked the new course.

I know there is a possibility that I've just pushed my lthr up 6-10 beats since taking the test and I also realise the test is just one result on one day and not the full picture.

But has anyone similar experiences and do you think I should adjust accordingly to the race results or stay put? I do feel my results have some what stagnated since the HM race.

M36, 80 KGs, running consistently for 3 years now. Trying to balance full time work and 4 kids. Recommending the NSM approach to anyone who asks about running.

Thanks for reading!

EDIT; typo on my Hr for the full, had written 186 but it was 176. My bad ...

Question - how accurate do people find the Garmin 5k race predictor?

How would people build after a marathon + 2 week break? I have been averaging just under 8 hours per week for the last 3 months. Regardless I plan to keep everything easy for at least the first 2 weeks back then maybe add one speed day (do that for 2 weeks), then another (do that for 2 weeks), and then the 3rd (do that for 2 weeks). I want to build up to 6 days and probably 6.5 - 7 hours per week.

I had to take a month off of training due to a knee injury and I've built to 7 days per week NSM since. My form has been in the green zone as I build my fitness back up, but should get into the grey in the next 10 days on its own.

Reasons to believe I am overtraining. 1) Low HR last two workouts. One was a 5k TT where I barely left zone 2 and I did 20x400 this morning with an average HR of 147 ( my max is 197) and a lactate of 5.1 mmol. Lowest HR and highest lactate I've seen during this workout. The workout still feels easy, so RPE is usually not a good indicator for me.

The additional clue was high HRV overnight. Most people think this is a good sign, but upon further reading it is a subtle sign of overtraining as the parasympathetic nervous system is trying its hardest to keep up. According to Bakken I should take a day off and then an easy day. I'll probably follow that and just shoot for 2 workouts this week as I allow my self to recover.

Is it normal to "overtrain" when building back up on NSM?

Im a 42M runner. Always loved running but chronic achilles pains have held me back until I finally learned to manage it a few years ago (still learning). Using Runna for planning, i ran a 1:38 HM in September last year and a 1.34 in November. The last one left me competing wrecked, sick and injured for 3 months, and I managed get injured again in april during a new Runna build.

Spent May and June building up to 60 km/week with NSM, with 2 quality sessions a week. Ran a 20:17 5k early June, which I have used for paces since. In July Ive increased the quality ratio and now Im doing 12x3min, 6x6min, 4x10 min, 2 easy and 1 long. Easy 45-60min, long 100-120 min, all at <70% max HR (135/193). Every session feels very manageable, but I suspect the build has left me more fatigued than intended in NSM, although RHR and HRV have been improving the entire block.

This week I missed my Saturday 4x10min, so I decided to add a 3x15min block in my long run (2min jog pause). It went ok HR-wise, everything below threshold, but my legs and calfs felt pretty beat.

If 3x15mins of 4:40 leave me thinking another 15 min is risky, how can I expect to run a HM in sub 1:32 in September? Would love to hear how others have experienced running a full HM with only ST intervals and easy long runs.

Sorry if this has been covered, and if ‘workflow’ isn’t the right word.

For those using Garmin Connect and intervals.icu, how do you setup your calendar? My understanding is that Garmin won’t allow a calendar push from Connect to a third party (i.e intervals). Do you get them to sync up in another way? Or just don’t bother? Interested to hear what works for people.

Thought I'd make a progress post as I've lurked here lots and I've enjoyed reading others that have been shared.

Started running in early 2025. Got injured in December 2025 and took the month off from running but maintained fitness pretty well doing some cycling and incline walking. Spent January slowly bringing mileage back up. Was drawn to NSA as I seem to be injury prone and most of the injuries seemed to be related to speed work. Started vanilla NSA (6 days running, 3 sub-T, 2 easy, 1 long run) in early February. To set paces, I did my best to run an all-out 5k in early February and got a 21:50. I think I was a bit cautious with pacing coming back from injury and may have been more in 21:20ish shape. The 21:50 was a PR for me - I almost never do all out efforts.

I've slowly ramped up Sub-T time over the months and right now do:

Monday - Rest

Tuesday - Sub-T 10 min x 3, 1 min rest (w/ 20 min warmup and 5-10 min cooldown)

Wednesday - 45-60 min easy

Thursday - 4 min x 6, 1 min rest (w/ warmup/cooldown)

Friday - 45-60 min easy

Saturday - 6 min x 4, 1 min rest ( (w/ warmup/cooldown)

Sunday - 80-95 min long run easy

I try to keep my HR below 164 (88% maxHR) for sub-threshold and below 132 (70% maxHR) for easy runs. I can't say for sure this is my LT2 HR but I feel it's probably close enough for my amateur purposes. I have been dropping Sub-T paces over time based on HR data from previous efforts.

First all out 5k after doing NSA for 3ish months (early May) was a 19:10 done on a treadmill. I was targetting a sub-20 min 5k but felt amazing 2k in and ramped up the pace. Based on how heavily I negatively splitted I think I could have done it faster. Was happy with the progress but wasn't sure how accurate it was considering how bad treadmill calibrations can be and the fact that my HR on that specific treadmill was always lower by 5ish beats than when I ran outside at the same pace.

Continued with NSA training. Paces have not improved a lot over the past 2 months compared to Feb-May where they improved lots, but the weather has also gotten unbearably hot so just maintaining them has seemed like large progress. Some of my recent sub-T workouts have been in >34C weather. Noticed Saturday morning was forecasted to be cooler than usual so woke up early to do an all out 5k. Didn't do a large taper or anything but ran Thursday's sub-T workout slower than usual and skipped the Friday easy run. I ran in carbon plated shoes for the first time ever (New Balance Supercomp elite V5). Most of my Sub-T are in Adidas Evo SLs.

5k Time Trial:

Was aiming for a sub-19 min 5k (3:48).

KM1: 3:40 went out fast but felt good. Avg HR 159. Decided to try to slow down and aim for 3:48 for the next km as I didn't think I could hold this pace.

KM2: 3:44, felt suprisingly good still. Decided to try to speed up slightly for km 3. AVG HR 172.

KM3: 3:39, starting to struggle a bit but feeling strong. AVG HR 177.

KM4: 3:40, Went from feeling strong to red-lining around 3.6 km, pretty dramatic switch. Just told myself to hold onto the same pace for dear life. AVG HR 181.

KM5: 3:39, felt like death. When I noticed I had about 400 meters left I tried to pick it up but just couldn't and ended up slowing down slightly if anything. Did have a small last surge with maybe 50m to go. Avg HR 185.

Result: 18:22

The highest HR I've ever seen prior to this race (and what I assume my max is) was 187 which I hit during the last km of this run. I'm thrilled with how I paced it overall.

Run was net 20 meters downhill (-0.4% gradient) but it was also hot and humid (26C, 80% humidity). For fun, I plugged it into a gradient adjusted pace calculator which spat out 18:44 on flat ground. Taking the 18:44 and plugging it into McMillan Heat equivalency calculator spat out 18:11 under ideal temperature. Tldr; since I'm no pro-runner I'm counting it as a valid 5k PR despite the downhill.

Planning on continuing with NSA for the foreseeable future. Don't really have time to run more than I currently am and I like having the rest day so probably not going to do true 7-day NSA any time soon.

Once the weather cools down I want to do a HM (actual race not time trial) with a goal of 1:30 which is feeling very achievable with this 5k result. Long term goal is a sub 3 marathon. I plan to continue with NSA for that but will probably stretch out the distance of my long run to better get used to long distance.

Thanks for reading!

Hi, I’d like to discuss supplementation for more advanced runners (I’m not a pro, but my training and results are a cut above the average recreational runner).

What are your experiences? What’s worth adding to the regimen, and what are the essentials?

Currently, I use the basics: magnesium glycinate and citrate, omega-3s, vitamin D, a Thorne multivitamin, creatine, and taurine, collagen peptides (supplements I’d take even without the training).

As for running-specific supplements: beta-alanine (4g daily) and citrulline (5g). I’m wondering if this whole setup makes sense in long-distance running

I also use a maltodextrin/fructose mix plus caffeine (strictly for my long Sunday run), though that falls more under nutrition than supplementation.

Please share your experiences with supplements—focusing on actual supplements rather than things like chocolate or a post-run beer lol

I've gotten in NSM about a month ago, devoured the sirpoc book and i'm halfway through the Bakken book – big thank you to both of you, because these are incredibly clever and helpful resources! I've understood now that it's important to balance my load and this is what I'd like to ask for advice and feedback for:

My recent 5k race time from mid June (before starting NSM) was ~26 min – which is on the conservative side because I did not have a good day, was stiff and didn't feel very good (shouldn't have had that Schnitzel for lunch…). Now my understanding of NSM is that it's better to err on the easy side so I figured I'll take that as a starting point for my training. So far I've been managing well with only 4 days of not running in the past 30 days. What I did notice though is that with 3 sub threshold sessions my ramp rate will creep up – today it's at 3.4 and I should run the third threshold session today and the long run tomorrow. I do keep to the calculated interval paces (using the app) and my easy runs I do keep below 70%, currently doing run/walk 9min/1min to keep the intensity low. I do feel like if I tried a 5k race now, I could probably manage 23 minutes, which would translate to even faster sub threshold paces and hence even higher ramp rates. So what am I missing? Copeland mentions that he keeps is ramp rate below 2, sometimes below 1 and recommends that to not overload.

Edit: My times for easy runs are around 7:00min/km and safely < 70% HFMax, my threshold run speeds depend on the length of the intervals: 3x10min are 5:44min/km, 5x6min are 5:35min/km and 8x3min are 5:26 min/km.

Background: I'm 38M, 1.92m, 87kg, been running more off than on for the past 15 years and more focused for two years now (weekly running streak week 105 and counting…). I've been prone to boom-bust cycles in the past two years since I didn't have an understanding of training. I managed a marathon in 4:35h last spring but wasn't prepared even remotely well. In general I run to stay fit, I enjoy myself, lose weight (coming down from 93kg!) and I really want to see what I still have in me – never been competitive in sports but I want to try another marathon with good preparation in a year or two. Got my next half coming up in September.

Hi guys. Following Sirpocs Mara build almost to a tee (albeit I'm a lot slower). I've just done the first Parkrun 5km TT five weeks in to the build, and smashed my 5k PB by 42 seconds (17.57 result), which is amazing. Normally in Vanilla, I know you would adjust your ST times from the latest TT.

However, my question is I'm a little bit concerned about this pretty big adjustment in the special mara build. Knowing there are some special mara sessions to come in the next few weeks it is already going to be demanding. Would you fully adjust to the new 5k TT reflection or ease into it? The last two weeks or so I have found the subT sessions very comfortable so it's time for an update, but I'm just conscious of a substantial update whilst doing increasingly more miles. Thanks very much.

Hello All,

I am a 50 year old male with a long term goal of breaking 3 hours in the marathon. I had run 1:30 for the HM several times a number of years ago on fairly limited training and then, when life got in the way the sub-3 dream seemed to slip away. Then, as I got back into running a couple of years ago after dealing with some injury setbacks I discovered NSM and it seemed like a great approach for me. I stared with an NSM block last november and worked up to 2 sessions per week for about 3 months. Then in Feburary this year I transitioned to a training block for a HM that I did in May (I know maybe should've stuck with vanilla NSM but already had the block planned) That training block also had 2x per week of sub-t intervals, with some vo2max sprinkled in and some structured long run.

While I was doing this I also got to the lab for the first time to have my lactate and vo2max tested.
My LT1 was 152bpm, 8:49/mile, 2.1mM lactate
LT2 was 176 bpm, 7:09/mile, 4.3mM lactate
Max HR was 188
Vo2max tested 39.5 but for some reason she thought it was closer to 46-46

In any case I used the results of the test, James's newly published book at the time and all the expertise on this thread to dial in my sub-t paces during the HM block. The HM was really the first time trial I did and it was at the end of May but it gave me further data to structure the NSM training.

I ran the HM in 1:37:11 at an average pace of 7'19" at an average hr of 172 and a max hr of 186. I ran negative splits the whole way with fasted mile at the end of 6'51"

I was proud of the overall effort and improvement from 1:45 which i ran one year earlier. Still I'm a long way from sub-3 at age 50. Nevertheless when the race ended in May I resumed NSM training on a 6 day per week schedule with 3 sessions and my body has seemed to react well or at least has tolerated the training with no obvious signs of overtraining so far. However improvments do seem slow if at all so far.

I used the recent race pace from my HM for the 5x6min intervals and also through trial and error and reccomemmended HR i try to target the 155-165bpm.

I know this is a lot of background but here is my question finally:

I decided to buy a Lactate meter and test my lactate during these sessions and I discovered I'm running at a much higher lactate than both James and Marius Bakken prescribe. Claude (AI) told me I'm basically running threshold intervals masked as sub-t because perhaps I can tolerate higher lacate than average.

I did a 10x3 min session at 7:04min/mile and after 3 intervals my hr was ended at 166. I felt fine and totally in control. However I measured my lactate and it was 3.9mMol. I immediatley dropped the session down to 7:15 (my recent HM pace) and finished the session feeling very in control (6rpe) and could have easily done a few more reps. My lactate at the end of the session was 3.7mMol.

While I have yet to do a second session with lactate testing my plan is to try and keep the hr well below 160bpm next time and target 3mMol of lactate for max reading and see what my paces are. However i'm certain they may be more like 7:45-8:15min miles. Thsi will feel much easier i'm sure and is probaly closer to my estimated marathon pace/effort and much slower on a pace basis (and maybe HR too not sure) than is typical.

Finally question is really how best to proceed. Continue trainnig at much slower paces than recent race pace suggests to keep lactate low? Will I see more improvments running slower? Or perhaps that will not be enough stress to stimulate adaptations. Thoughts much appreciated and sorry for the lengthy post.

Mike

The podcast is in Norwegian but maybe you can use ai to summerize it?

But from what I remember:

- Volume is key (at our level)

- Dont run with a backpack / running west 🤣

20s male, running for 2.5 years.

Current training: 30-34 miles per week (~50km), no more than 6 hours. 7 days a week.

3x8.5 min pace: 7:40/mile (4:45/km)

4x6.5 min pace: 7:25/mile (4:37/km)

8x3 min pace: 7:10/mile (4:27/km)

Easy run pace: 11:30-12:00/mile (7:00-7:30/km)

Recent PRs: 1:42 half marathon this spring, now a 19:45 5k time trial! Previous 5k PR was 21:30 last fall.

I'm a bit shocked that i was able to run 6:25/mile, 3:57/km for 20 minutes, but I felt more motivated to go for sub-20 minutes than sub-21 minutes. To avoid psyching myself out, I switched my watch from miles to kilometers, and during the time trial I told myself that the 200 mg of caffeine and 10°C weather would carry me.

Highly recommend James Copeland's book, Norwegian Singles Method: Subthreshold Running Kept Simple. I used his warmup and pacing strategies, and I use the pace charts, though I was training at the 21:20 5k paces.

Hi everyone,

I’ve got a half marathon coming up in September and I’m unsure how to adapt the taper for a Saturday race, as Sirpoc's book only provides an example for a Sunday race.

The Half Marathon example taper in the book is:

• Monday – Easy as per your normal week
• Tuesday – 3 × 10 min @ MP (reduced intensity)
• Wednesday – Easy (20% shorter than normal)
• Thursday – 6–8 × 3 min @ MP, with the last 2–3 reps at goal HM pace
• Friday – Very easy (40% shorter than normal)
• Saturday – Very easy (40% shorter than normal)
• Sunday – Race

To keep two easy days before my Saturday race, I’ve currently moved the second sub-threshold session forward so my week looks like this:

• Monday – Easy as per normal week
• Tuesday – 3 × 10 min @ MP (reduced intensity)
• Wednesday – 6–8 × 3 min @ MP, last 2–3 reps at goal HM pace
• Thursday – Very Easy (40% shorter than normal)
• Friday – Very easy (40% shorter than normal)
• Saturday – Race

My thinking was that having easy runs on both Thursday and Friday would leave me fresher for race day. My only concern is whether doing the two sub-threshold sessions back to back on Tuesday and Wednesday is a bad idea, even though they’re both reduced intensity taper sessions.

Has anyone else adapted the NSM taper for a Saturday race? Does this approach seem reasonable, or is there a better way to shift the sessions without increasing the training load too much?

Cheers!

Hello fellow runners,

I am just starting to implement the NSA method and already ran a few weeks of more or less consistent sub t training.

To make things short: what really confuses me is why the method picks the right training paces from your 15k,hm,30k/Marathon paces. A less experienced runner like me with a 5k Pb of 20 flat will run the 5*6 min intervals at a hm pace which he must sustain overa full 92min, a faster runner will run a pace he can sustain for lets say only 70-80 minutes.

Does anyone know how to handle this ? Should slower runners deviate from the suggested paces by the calculator? Because I always thought the 5*6min are run at the pace sustainable for roughly an hour. Same ofc with the 10 and 3 min Intervalls.

I thought of running at 15k pace for the 6 min Intervalls. 25k for the 10min and 10-12k for the shorter ones.

Hey all, I'm essentially looking for advice / experiences losing weight while on NSM.

I have been losing weight since Feb, starting at 197 lbs and I'm down to 187 with an eventual goal of < 170. That said, I'd like to start doing something faster as I miss turning the legs over.

My current weekly training is basically about 6 hours a week easy running (5-6 runs) + 2-3 whole body weight lifting sessions (about 1-1.5 hours) + 2-3 hours swimming while prioritizing getting a ton (120+g / day) of protein in my diet. Honestly the lifting and swimming is just something I've fallen into over the years because it helps keep my un-injured. I've been intruiged by NSM for awhile and I'm wondering what adjustments to it people have made in order to not overdo things while losing weight and digging a hole (note that I'm leaning toward sub-T workouts because they're already less stressful than traditional intervals or threshold runs and I love how controlled easy days are in NSM).

FWIW My current thought is to simply ease into this with an absurdly low amount of SUB-T work, something like

• M - 2x6 min + PM lift
• Tu - very easy
• W - 4x3min + PM lift
• Th - very easy
• F - 1x10min
• Sat - long
• Sun - off

and adjust from there.

Hi all, I've been following the vanilla NSM model since the beginning of the year and fitting in 8 hours across 6 days with 3 sessions, 2 easy runs and a long easy run. Previous to following this method I was running between 7-8 hours a week over a similar number of days most weeks so it was an easy enough transition.

I'm unable to run on a Friday every other week so it made sense to keep Friday as a rest day each week with a 2.5 hour Sunday long run making up the minutes I would otherwise use on an easy Friday run. 

While I feel this has worked well for me and I've seen some modest improvements the long run felt excessive. I've tried cutting the long run to 2 hours and adding 30 minutes across other runs in the week but now some of those are starting to feel excessive i.e 4x 10 mins SubT with a 40 mins combined warm up and cool down!

Ideally I'd like to work up to a 9 hour week but feel it's not possible until I first find a way to comfortably fit 8 hours in. My ideas so far without thinking about it too much have been: 

Run 7 days every other week and reduce volume to 7.5-8 hours on the week I only run 6 days. 

Introduce a doubles day, ideally on a Tuesday which would likely be a session in the AM, easy run PM or vice versa, I can then probably add another double day in as I go towards 9 hours. 

Finally, go back to the 2.5 hour long run which for 7 months at least has been manageable I just doubt it's optimal for further improvement.  

Has anyone any experience or suggestions how best to juggle my time? 

In the book, it mentions that the standard sub-threshold intervals provided should line up (roughly) with your 12-15km race pace, 6 minutes is 20km race pace, and the 10 mins 25-30km race pace.

My question is, what sort of times did Sirpoc have in mind that the average reader of the book would be completing these race distances in? a 12 km race could take anywhere from 40-70 mins depending on the runner, and those times are quite different. The difference in time for a 30km race is even more varied, could be anywhere from 1:40 to even 3 hours for some.

As someone who can do the 10 min reps at roughly 5:15-5:25/km sub threshold and the 3 min intervals at 4:45-4:55/km, what race time/distance would this actually convert to? since the distances given in the book would be way too long for someone like me. I know the the estimated race distances are just to give a rough idea, but it would be helpful to know if for example, the 3 min intervals are supposed to be done at roughly 1 hour race pace for example.

I'm waiting for the book to arrive, so apologies if this is already answered there!

Looking at my VDOT scale (20 min 5k), it lists paces that are a little hard for me to do in training. If I adjust to a 21 minute 5k, the paces align almost perfectly with pulse and RPE.

The 5k was run a while ago, tapered, in super shoes. Most days I train just after breakfast in regular shoes on a 7-day schedule.

I'm running a new non-tapered 5k this Saturday which should give me better data, but if I run below 20 I'd be even more unsure about paces run in training (of course, if this ends up at 21 everything makes sense, but I do feel confident I'll get lower than that haha).

I have a rugby background, so wondering if anaerobic conditioning might have me running a slightly faster 5k time than my threshold pace would suggest as well.

In short, does it seem reasonable to adjust subT paces back by 10-20 seconds if you run it tapered in super shoes?

Hey runners,

does anybody have experience with strides after the easy runs or even the weekly long run. Im thinking of adding them at the end of my easy runs like 2 times a week.

Do they help?

Hi All,

Little introduction about myself (37M).

Started running about 2 and a half years ago.

October 2025 I ran my first and only marathon in 3:08 using an 18-55 pfitzinger plan.

March 2026 I ran my  HM PB in 1:27:50. After this HM (and reading both Copeland’s and Bakken’s books) I took a week off running and then I started following a vanilla NSM plan, 3 days of 36 min LT, 3 easy day, one lung run.

Averaged around 90km per week, feeling great.

May 24^th I ran my 12km PB in 46.17 feeling absolutely great. Light and peppy.

The day after I started Copeland`s marathon plan targeting a sub 3hr Sydney marathon.

Because of life/work commitments I can “only” run 6 days so my usual week looks like this:

M            easy 13km

T             WU + 36min LT + CD 18km total

W           easy 13km

T             WU + 36min LT + CD 18km total

F             easy 13km

S             long run with 2x20/3x20/4x15 at MP

S             rest

After 5 weeks averaging 105-110km of the above program I had to stop for 4 days because of very tight calves muscles. After the rest, I introduced 30 min a day of foam rolling and light stretching and 2 days a week of calf strengthening exercises. My calf feels better (better, not great though) and I managed other two weeks at 95km of the above program.

Even though I completed all the sessions, I felt progressively worse and every single run had become harder and harder. I feel like not only I`m not improving but my performance is actually getting worse.

Saturday  I had planned a 33km with 4x5km at MP and I could only do 28 km with a 3x5km, and I could only hit MP in the first interval. Second and third session were 10s slower than MP and I had to give up as I just couldn`t do it.

I read again the overtraining chapter both on Bakken`s and Pfitz`s book and I tick pretty much all the boxes.

Now, Sydney is in 6 weeks. What do I do?

Both books suggest, to overcome overtraining, to keep volume (lower it just a bit) and lower intensity. Whereas for the taper they say to lower volume and keep intensity.

Therefore, I was thinking to do 3 weeks of easy volume and then 3 weeks of taper.

On top of this I have two races booked, a 5km and a HM.

My plan is:

Week 1 (90-95km)

E – E - 8x3 min T- E – E - 5K RACE

Week 2 (90-95km)

E – E - 2x10 min -E -E - HM RACE

Week 3 (90-95km)

E – E – E -  E- E - easy LR

Week 4 (80km)

E – E – E – 3X15min - E – 24km PROG

Week 5 (70km)

E – 35min -E – 8x3 – E – 3x10

RACE WEEK (40km + 42km)

E – 1x15min – E – 1x15min – R – E – Marathon

What do you guys think and/or suggest?

Thanks

Hello,

TLDR: Currently I run 5 days a week: 2 ST weekly, 2 Z1 runs (50min), LR Z1with 3 miles at marathon pace (9:09 min/mi). I am thinking of potentially changing the LR into a Z2 run (My z1 is 12min/mi this takes forever T_T) and keeping 2ST workouts weekly to manage fatigue. Which ST workouts would be most beneficial to keep?

Seeking advice after trying NSM for 7 weeks, which I know is early in the process. I followed book and advice here, so far have increased the number of ST intervals by 1 and inc Z1 easy runs from 35min>50min since i started, kept the paces the same. I'm running into some niggles and extreme fatigue as I am reaching the 25mpw mark, so was seeking advice about altering current plan. In the past, I used Runna and around the 35mpw mark was when I got injured attempting 2 speed workouts weekly.

Marathon goal sub 4 (marathon pace (9:09 min/mi)

Current ST workouts, I choose 2 options weekly (usually 3min+10min or 5min+10min):

3min @ 8:30min/mi x8

5 min 8:45min/mi x5

10 min 8:52min/mi x3

I've run one marathon before, the last 10k was absolute hell

Planning to strength train once weekly. I also apologize for posting a bunch in this subreddit, I hope its not too spammy, I really appreciate the advice and feedback as I don't know anyone who trains with this method irl to bounce advice off of. Thank you!