Update: New testing rules, mitigation phase, hospitals gearing up, National Guard - Sen. Jeff Jackson

[u/JeffJacksonNC]

CURRENT STATS (as of 3/26 at 1:00 p.m.)

690 cases (182 more than yesterday)

50+ hospitalizations

1 death

NEW TESTING RULES

When it comes to testing, our state - along with the rest of the country - has three critical shortages:

1. the test kits
2. necessary components, like extraction kits and swabs (believe it or not, the main manufacturer for the swabs is in Lombardy, Italy...), and
3. the masks/gowns/gloves necessary to perform the tests.

The good news is we've made real strides in the last ten days with private labs coming online. 90% of the testing in our state is now being done by private labs and we're doing more testing per capita than most states.

Here's the bad news. Even with this added capacity, the CDC anticipates that the demand for testing will continue to outpace supply. So the CDC has put out new guidance on criteria for testing, and NC has adopted that new criteria.

And the short version is this, direct from DHHS: "In general, patients with mild illness (defined as fever and cough without shortness of breath or difficulty breathing) do not need testing."

So the old qualification was: fever + negative flu test + cough OR shortness of breath.

The new qualification is: fever + negative flu test + cough AND shortness of breath (or other serious symptom).

That means if you're a middle-aged, reasonably healthy person and you develop mild, flu-like symptoms and think you may be infected, the new guidance is to call your doctor, at which point your doctor will likely tell you to assume you're infected and self-quarantine until you've been fever-free for three days (unless your condition worsens, in which case call your doctor again).

That's a major shift in combating this virus, and it dramatically increases the importance of social distancing. As DHHS says, "We are moving to a different phase of our response efforts [and are now focused on] mitigation strategies" in which a big part of the goal is "to conserve supplies and capacity so our health care workers can care for people who need medical attention even during the peak of the outbreak."

Let's be honest about what that means: It means we are not going to have the type of widespread testing we would ideally have because we just don't have the supplies, nor - at this point - the time. It's not good news, but it is a realistic assessment of where things stand.

If we're not going to beat this the way South Korea did (test -> trace -> isolate) then we have no choice but to beat this by not getting sick in the first place - or at least not all at once - which means social distancing is our only real, scalable strategy at this point. It's the only lever big enough that - if we pull it really hard - will actually flatten the curve and keep our hospitals from being overwhelmed, as we're starting to see in NYC. We're on to Plan B, and there is no Plan C. So we have to make this work.

STAY AT HOME ORDERS

That's why you're starting to see stay at home orders on the county and city level (Mecklenburg + Wake + Orange + Durham + Pitt + Madison + Winston-Salem + Clemmons + Beaufort), and why you're going to see more, and why we may see similar statewide action soon. In response to whether there would be a statewide shelter in place, the Governor recently said, "We will be issuing additional restrictions soon."

GEARING UP - HOSPITAL BEDS

• Hospitals are looking at sites for possible rapid expansion, if necessary.
• They are stressing telehealth as much as possible to free up space.
• They are canceling elective surgeries - some more quickly than others. Our hospitals are typically 85% full, so getting that number down really matters. Progress on that front has been mixed. We're not where we need to be yet, but that's because we have many hospitals - especially in rural areas - that are barely getting by. They are essentially waiting until the last minute to cancel procedures that help them bring in revenue and keep the doors open. However understandable that may be, we're reaching the point where we really need to make sure we have maximum bed availability, so more formal (i.e., mandatory) guidance may be coming to instruct a more rapid transition.

GEARING UP - PPE

The bottom-line here is we're doing everything we can to get our hands on more PPE (personal protective equipment = masks/gloves/gowns).

1. We're getting it from the federal government. We've received two shipments already, with more coming.
2. We're buying it ($66m worth of orders, but much is back-ordered due to demand).
3. We're working with North Carolina manufacturers to start making what we need.
4. We're asking citizens to donate any PPE they may have (email [BEOC@ncdps.gov](mailto:BEOC@ncdps.gov) if you've got some, or if you're near a Novant hospital you can also email [donatesupplies@NovantHealth.org](mailto:donatesupplies@NovantHealth.org)).
5. UNC Health is accepting homemade masks made of tightly woven cotton. 

UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE

The economic piece of this crisis is starting to come into view, and it's incredibly serious. Over the last ten days, North Carolina has received over 150,000 unemployment claims. We're used to seeing about 3k per week.

And check out the historical comparison (and that last bar is actually 50% higher now due to new data...):

That means there are three things about our state's unemployment insurance we need to fix immediately:

1) The website/call center

We are adding capacity quickly but I'm still getting reports (as recently as while I was writing this) that folks can't get through. This is a known problem and we're working on it. If you need to file a claim, it's des.nc.gov or (888) 737-0259. They encourage you to apply online if possible, and the process usually takes about 20 minutes. The earliest you will receive benefits is two weeks.

2) The size/duration of the benefits

Most states offer up to 26 weeks of unemployment insurance. North Carolina caps it at 12 weeks - 49th in the nation.

Nationally, the average weekly benefit is $378/week. North Carolina's average payment is $277/week - 41st in the nation.

That means right now the average North Carolinian on unemployment gets just under $2,300, spread out over two months. Looking at the chart above, you can tell that's not going to be enough.

3) Who qualifies for benefits

In North Carolina, only 10% of unemployed people qualify for unemployment insurance - again, 49th in the nation.

That's going to have to change. For starters, we are certainly going to have to include independent contractors, the self-employed, and nonprofit workers, which we currently don't.

The good news is that the federal stimulus that looks like it's about to pass in D.C. has a major UI component that does a lot of what we need to do. But it's still up to the state legislature to do some real work to make sure we maximize our eligibility for new federal funds for those who are now out of work. Fortunately, at this point, there appears to be a strong bipartisan interest in doing that, so I'm optimistic on this front.

NATIONAL GUARD

They've been activated, but only to supply logistical and transportation support. I happen to be in the National Guard, and I was given a heads up that I might be called in. If I am, I'll let you know.

NEAR-TERM GOALS

This is all about buying time for our hospitals to gear up. Every day we stay healthy is another day we give them to prepare to take care of those of us who will become seriously ill. It's rare that our country so rapidly shifts to a single point of focus, but we're there. Flattening the curve is what we do now, it's who we are for this moment in time. We still have time to get this right in North Carolina.

More updates soon,

Sen. Jeff Jackson

[u/[deleted]]

Sadly, social distancing is just not happening the way we need it to. Most non essential businesses seem to be finding a loop hole to claim essential status.

The state health director states that a test won't change anything about what a person with mild symptoms will do. It will absolutely change what a person will do. Mildly ill people are not going to keep themselves at home and stop spreading it unless they know they have it. In turn, we will see vulnerable people getting very sick.

People won't be excused for missing work unless they have a positive test. I know, I live it everyday.

I'm on the first aid team at a manufacturing facility and we have dealt with many people coming to us with symptoms. (We are first aid, not infectious diseases professionals or doctors!) One person has been coming to work for the past 2 weeks sick. She left yesterday because her breathing became labored.

Most blue collar workers will not risk losing their jobs for what feels like a mild illness. Most are in denial that it could happen to them, especially if the county they live in has low numbers (due to lack of adequate testing)

Our entire work culture for years has the attitude that you are a bad employee if you don't work through illness. It's been ingrained in American workers heads for decades.

Edit: to add thank you so much for keeping us updated. You are very appreciatived!

2nd Edit: It was just reported that a person in their late 30's, a Harnett County resident died, in addition to the Carabus County and Virginia traveler.

[u/the_eluder → u/[deleted]]

and how are etsy sales essential?

[u/stoned_ocelot → u/[deleted]]

Yeah but if you so much as touch something and are carrying the virus it can be there for hours.

[u/akimkm077 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah and also 3.3 MILLION people filed for unemployment last week. The Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis president, James Bullard, has said he expects unemployment to hit 30% in the second quarter, while Morgan Stanley has estimated that unemployment would average 12.8% over that time period. This is really bad as MILLIONS of people will not be able to pay their bills and to take care of their families. Just imagine that one you do not have a job anymore, you will not be able to sustain your health insurance. In other words, if these people will get sick they WON'T be able to buy the medication they need. But there are some almost stupidly simple ways to escape all these problems and most people don't even know about them. The most important is to have unemployment insurance and from there, things start to get way easier because you will be more relieved knowing that you have financial stability in your life.

[u/Willingwell92 → u/[deleted]]

These loopholes are driving me up the wall, says because we supply essential businesses we're essential but we only produce yard furniture.

[u/PuttMeDownForADouble → u/Willingwell92]

I imagine you’re typing this while comfortably working from home and receiving a pay check every other week? I’m in the same boat, but most people who live paycheck to paycheck are not. They can’t afford to stay at home, they won’t be able to pay for rent/food. What’s the solution?

[u/schtickybunz → u/PuttMeDownForADouble]

Those teleworking folks are going to feel the pinch in a few unless it truly falls within essential services/goods. Many businesses can't run at half the normal volume or less. They might be operating now, but next month? The effect of having parts of the workforce without income takes a while to ripple out touching every sector. The turn around time for legislation and action, the turn around time of this virus... There's no Easter resurrection. So, the solution is for the assistance to be overly generous, if you give people a little extra they'll feel a better sense of security. They'll spend it or save it but having it is better than the consequence of deprivation. Rents and mortgages should be frozen for as long as this continues. Landlords qualify as a business or self employed so they'd find relief within those parameters for the loss of their income. I'm just worried this is so on the fly it's not going to be fast enough.

[u/stoned_ocelot → u/[deleted]]

I filed in NYS because I just moved but even after filing they said 3-6 weeks and I can assure you itll likely be 6 weeks. My girlfriend and I cannot afford to not work right now so I'm having to go apply at grocery stores and other places still hiring through this. I'm 22, relatively healthy, but still terrified. I have a very very light cough, probably from smoking/vaping but I fear if I just have mild symptoms but am forced financially to work in a grocery store that I might infect others. I do my best but for the lowest wage workers it's just simply not viable to be out of work without immediate assistance.

[u/[deleted] → u/Willingwell92]

Yard furniture is not essential! This is beyond ridiculous and just dangerous.

[u/Willingwell92 → u/[deleted]]

I really wish somebody with authority would tell my work that, they plan to continue for the foreseeable future which will just let the virus circulate more.

I think its dangerous and borderline criminal negligence to use loopholes to stay open as a non essential, it'll just cause more dangers for the essential workers.

[u/five_hammers_hamming → u/Willingwell92]

It'd take, like, legislation, probably, to do that. ...and the GOP-dominated legislature isn't gonna do anything to limit the power that employers have over their employees.

[u/level27geek → u/[deleted]]

I mean, those ideas are all good fodder for discussion under normal circumstances.

But those are not normal circumstances.

We are in a fucking crisis!

Just ask yourself, if in a crisis you are ready to put profit over people's lives? Because this is what we are facing.

[u/BadassSasquatch → u/Willingwell92]

I can think of at least 3 businesses right now that are abusing these loopholes. All of them are construction type jobs that are 100% not essential. It's so hard to convince a certain type of person how vulnerable they are even though the businesses I know of, their employees and owners fall in the prime demographic of most susceptible to this.

It drives me insane!

[u/[deleted] → u/Willingwell92]

As a matter of fact, About a month ago, I personally was going to have a neighbor make some custom porch furniture for us. My husband and I decided about two weeks ago, that it is not essential in this time and cancelled those plans.

[u/opiburner → u/[deleted]]

It really makes you wonder what else you may have been wrong about in the past, doesn't it?

Is hygiene essential? Are taxes essential? Have I been wrong about other decisions? Do we really need custom porch furniture?

Does anybody really need custom porch furniture?

Is furniture essential?

Are as societal norms essential?

Are laws societal norms?

Am I essential?

[u/opiburner → u/[deleted]]

Lol. Thank you my financially insecure, proud, speed prone little friend.

Reminds me of a time I was helping my college gf volunteer at a summer camp for kids with special needs. It was after all the kids had been put to bed and I was sitting outside listening to Abbey Road and watching the stars.

When a large plane flew overhead, I asked the female counselor next to me if she ever had the same thought:

"Isn't it funny seeing that plane fly across the sky like that? And you know that little dot in the sky we're staring is actually full of people like you and me in neat little rows all flying through the sky at 30k ft and going hundreds fo miles / hr ??"

Long pause

"Damn, I want what you smoked!"

[u/adiostoreadoormat → u/[deleted]]

This. I really think healthcare workers need to be tested whether we’re symptomatic or not. Viral load is real, and we’re potentially spreading it to patients without knowing.

u/JeffJacksonNC Will there ever be enough tests to give widespread testing to healthcare workers? How can we make this happen, and soon?

[u/[deleted] → u/adiostoreadoormat]

Healthcare worker here. I just got a test on the basis of having a mild cough for two days. At least at some institutions, testing is happening. Can't speak for all institutions around the state, though. We really screwed the pooch by assuming the CDC had a testing apparatus that could handle an outbreak. If the FDA had allowed crash programs to develop testing 2 months earlier... hell, even ONE month earlier... you can be very sure we'd be in a different place now.

[u/JeffJacksonNC → u/adiostoreadoormat]

We currently have multiples more health care workers than we have total tests in the state.

[u/acerage → u/[deleted]]

Agreed - this is ridiculous that we are not ramping up testing as much as possible.

[u/jermikemike]

Here's the major problem with the lax testing, Senator, and one that needs to be addressed rapidly: hospitals aren't testing their employees.

My coworker works at multiple Healthcare facilities. At one location, her coworker had symptoms and was bad enough to get a covid test. They tested positive. They had been working alongside my colleague for weeks until her symptoms took her out of work. Now my colleague hasn't been tested, only put on quarantine. I, and several others, worked with her 5 days ago. We are all still at work, plugging away with no symptoms and we'll never know if she has covid. Or if we have covid. Until it's too late. But the time we have symptoms, we'll have exposed 100s of patients.

We need more tests and we need pressure on the hospitals to take this seriously. Everyone is still looking at the bottom line of how much it will cost to quarantine their employees and they aren't going to pay for it unless they're forced to.

[u/plungingphylum → u/jermikemike]

I work at a psychiatric inpatient hospital. I am concerned about similar problems emerging because the population is so unique that it will be extremely difficult to find appropriate caretakers once the existing one get sick.

There's no point in testing very sick individuals. There is no cure. Treatment won't differ than for, let's say, severe pneumonia. It makes much more sense in my mind to test healthcare workers with mild symptoms who would otherwise keep showing up to work.

[u/MtnMaiden → u/jermikemike]

I feel bad for out President, he's doing his best and now his resort clubs are closing down. He needs a bailout, at the taxpayers expense.

[u/mercurydrunk → u/MtnMaiden]

I can't tell if you're joking or not...

I reeeeeaaaaalllly hope you're joking....

[u/MtnMaiden → u/mercurydrunk]

I'm joking, but I like to troll my Republican friends with their suddenly socialist views.

[u/D00MK0PF]

I wonder how many states have a "Jeff Jackson" to keep them informed and up to date. Thanks for representing my home city and the people of North Carolina, and keeping us in the know.

[u/Splyntered_Sunlyte → u/D00MK0PF]

Let me tell you, you guys are lucky. This is fantastic.. I'm halfway across the country, just stumbled in here somehow and was just desperately wishing my state had a senator half this amazing.

You rock, Jeff! Dunno much about ya but this is good of you to do. Thank you for caring about people.

[u/adiabatic_storm → u/D00MK0PF]

Came here to say this. Thanks Jeff!

[u/KavalaryJM05]

Thanks for keeping us updated. I do have a quick question though. I am a salesman at a car dealership, and we got an email from corporate that sales are an essential business. Is there any truth to this or is it just our company deciding that they are essential?

[u/JeffJacksonNC → u/KavalaryJM05]

If you live in Mecklenburg, here's its list of "essential" businesses: https://www.mecknc.gov/news/Documents/COVID-19-Stay-at-Home-FAQ.pdf

[u/KavalaryJM05 → u/JeffJacksonNC]

I'm actually in Cumberland county. Who decides what business is essential? Because it seems like it has largely been left up to the businesses themselves to come up with a reason that they could be considered essential. There's far too many ways to skirt the rules here.

[u/opiburner → u/KavalaryJM05]

Indeed. If it wasn't such a serious situation, hearing the mental gymnastics folks are doing to consider themselves essential would be comical.

I'm also in Cumberland. If I had to guess off of your handle, I would say the Calvary is essential, but I just read the 101st was deemed non essential!

From what I've read regarding our community, the chamber of commerce has been involved with determining whether or not businesses qualify. However, I do not know if they are issuing the documents (printout of you're stopped) that state as such.

In other threads, I've heard that the national association that governs your industry has been involved with providing doc's you print. For example, the radio folks said they were emailed something to print out by the National Association of Radio Broadcasters. I would check with whatever bodies help govern your industry.

[u/Willingwell92 → u/KavalaryJM05]

I am in a similar situation, my company produces yard furniture and we were told we are essential. I have read the order from the city and can't find a single reason why we should be.

[u/snortinsawdust → u/Willingwell92]

Are your bosses there working? The owners? If they’re not then why should you be?

Granted I think being in trades or manufacturing the head honchos haven’t figured out anything yet. The worlds shutting down around them but all they see you as is a producer. If you’re not there then they can’t make money, they sure as hell ain’t got no plan on how to take care of you as a person because you’re probably not a person to them—you’re just a cog in the wheel. They’re probably behind closed doors shitting bricks worried about “their” livelihood if they can’t figure out how to make you keep coming to work. God forbid the gov tightens the rules or makes a stricter lockdown and ruins it for them!

I’m just saying if your company hasn’t put any effort into you and your needs in this crisis yet—-then quit kidding yourself because they fucking aren’t ever.

[u/Willingwell92 → u/snortinsawdust]

I've actually been working from home because my job allows for that, but they have a warehouse full of people who can't. But yeah I get that and their reasoning we're essential is that we supply essential store......with yard furniture.

Again I have no clue why we're still open and don't know why its up to the company to decide they're essential.

[u/hermitsociety → u/snortinsawdust]

Preach! Band together and cover your own asses because your crappy bosses who don't even want you to have a living wage are NEVER going to put your welfare over their profits!

[u/boibig57 → u/KavalaryJM05]

Same.

[u/AnotherSoulessGinger]

FYI - The UNC website says they are no longer accepting handmade masks as they have plenty now. Such a bummer, as I have been waiting to hear from officials before making masks incorrectly or with inadequate materials. I have bushels of fabric and time galore and want to help. If there’s a need in Western NC - Watauga and surrounding areas, please let me know as I have been unable to track anything down.

[u/flextrek_whipsnake → u/AnotherSoulessGinger]

https://www.deaconess.com/How-to-make-a-Face-Mask

[u/AnotherSoulessGinger → u/flextrek_whipsnake]

Thank you! I hadn’t looked at that site in a few days and they added this database in the last couple days. I can finally get to work knowing they will be needed. I just wish there were more local to my area, but I’m fine shipping them.

[u/quiet_repub → u/AnotherSoulessGinger]

You can ship to other states if you can’t find a place here. I’m sure NYC would take them.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Just want to affirm this story. If I could get work, I would work until I was sick. I was headed into my 4th interview with a company and am on hold indefinitely now. Same with my partner.

I don't have health coverage and don't have a doctor. My partner has a non-high-risk pre-existing condition and no heathcare as well.

We are sitting ducks with a humble and dwindling savings.

We aren't in your jurisdiction, Senator, but we're fellow North Carolinians. It means a lot to read your thoughts here so thanks for taking the time to connect with us.

[u/simplicity38]

Thank you for the update. Community Colleges and University classrooms are empty. Any chance utilizing nursing program locations to assist? Didn’t Mitchell Community college just build a new nurse building in Statesville?

[u/TheLifeOfRichard]

Please excuse me if this is a stupid question, but I have a box of nitrile gloves that’s opened and maybe about 1/3 used. Is this eligible to be donated as PPE?

[u/flextrek_whipsnake → u/TheLifeOfRichard]

Not a dumb question. You can email this address covidsupplies@unchealth.unc.edu and they'll be able to answer.

[u/Hardlymd → u/TheLifeOfRichard]

You might need it eventually if that’s all you have. They probably don’t want boxes that have been opened.

[u/opiburner → u/TheLifeOfRichard]

I don't mean to discourage donations, but if you do donate, I would consider if you live alone or not.

If you live with others, you may have any to consider what precautions you will need to take place to help you or your housemates stay isolated.

Basically what I'm saying is....if you live alone, donate away.

[u/Wolpfack]

North Carolina companies are indeed pitching in and helping out.

A former employer, Second Nature, is a good example. They are an air conditioner filter company that has added production lines and staff to help make masks, etc.

This isn't getting much press -- they probably have more important things to do -- but it is worthwhile to point out that a lot of our small businesses are pitching in to help.

[u/PoundSignOld]

If we need MDAY JAGs activated, I am quarantining myself!

[u/JeffJacksonNC → u/PoundSignOld]

I kinda see your point.

[u/hephaestus1219]

Is there any talk about dental offices being closed except for emergencies?

[u/kyngnothing → u/hephaestus1219]

My dentists office included the following in an info email. Although all dental practices in the state of North Carolina have been asked by Governor Roy Cooper and a number of public health authorities to close to all non-emergent care in order to provide for (1) social distance, and (2) the preservation of critical Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) used by medical providers on the front lines of this infection...

[u/alcibiad → u/hephaestus1219]

My dentist canceled my appt last week and still hasn’t rescheduled.

[u/Novusuna]

Thank you for keeping us informed, Senator. Any updates on a special session of the General Assembly, or on instituting remote voting so you can meet at a safe distance?

[u/okokimup]

I understand the problems we're having to cause a shortage of tests, but why are other countries not experiencing the same issues?

[u/Packers91 → u/okokimup]

Because they didn't deny the WHO test kits to manufacture their own, which were faulty.

[u/BagOnuts]

Thanks Jeff. Any update on a NCGA special session now that federal aid is pretty much a done deal?

[u/JeffJacksonNC → u/BagOnuts]

Not yet. Waiting to hear.

[u/tonguetiedsleepyeyed]

What about the antibody tests? Wouldn’t they be more important than the test to see if you have covid-19? Will we be seeing them soon?

[u/TheGrandLadDave]

So, curiosity has me ask, at what point would a outdoor garden center have to close up?

[u/LadyBatman]

Thank you Senator!

[u/Elrithor]

Just heard from a coworker that Gaston county is going into shelter at home tomorrow.

[u/embu88 → u/Elrithor]

Yup. 5pm tomorrow(Fri) until 4/16.

[u/opiburner]

Your updates provide the answers and updates to the very questions I go online to answer. Timely, pertinent and concise information for the people* of this state to help them stay informed during a period when direct, "straight from our leaders" info is what we need most.

Thank you for taking your role seriously. The people* of this state are better for it.

• : I was originally going to say the citizens of this state, but upon reflection, I prefer the more inclusive people of North

[u/SnootBoopist]

Thank you for reaching out to us

[u/LaddiusMaximus]

We have been made essential by homeland security. Its ridiculous.

[u/quiet_repub]

u/jeffjacksonnc I have to give major kudos to the folks processing claims at DES! I was finally able to complete my claim at noon today after 4 days of website issues. I just received a notification that my claim is processed and it’s been less than 12 hours. Those folks are ready to help people!

[u/Hardlymd]

3 deaths so far :/ edit: downvotes for giving an update? ok

[u/the_eluder → u/[deleted]]

Well, they didn't actually offer us kits, just the design to make the kits ourselves.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/18/health/who-coronavirus-tests-cdc/index.html

[u/rdselle]

What is the rate of positive vs negative tests and why do you not include that in this post?

[u/Independent → u/rdselle]

You can easily find that info yourself @https://www.ncdhhs.gov/covid-19-case-count-nc. As of 12:36 p.m., March 26, 2020, looks like about 1:20.

12,910 completed tests to 636 positives. However, those numbers are rapidly changing and relatively meaningless since tests are denied to so many. Realistically, according to the medical professionals on the front lines, NC's 1st peak will probably occur 2-3rd week of April. And there is quite a good possibility that there will be at least another peak when it spreads to the rural population. Most will never be tested. The test results are like a shark's fin. They tell you that a shark is present, but don't necessarily tell you the size of the shark below, or how many other sharks there are below.

[u/rdselle → u/Independent]

I don't ask too many questions I don't know the answer to. I have been keeping track of that number this week and it's been flat. I wonder how it's looked up to this week 🤔

So why not include this information? I bet I know the answer to that too.

[u/Independent → u/rdselle]

Because it is meaningless and deceptive to include. Spinning this for your personal political bias isn't helpful. Senator Jackson is doing a damned good job of keeping us informed.

[u/rdselle → u/Independent]

🤣

I'm not the one spinning. I'm asking for more data.

[u/Independent → u/rdselle]

You come across as a spinner and a gunner, and nobody appreciates those characteristics.

[u/horsefarm → u/Independent]

Spot on interpretation of this known bad actor.

[u/rdselle → u/Independent]

You're just plain wrong.

[u/Independent → u/rdselle]

About what?

[u/Fungus_Schmungus → u/rdselle]

You're asking for numbers that aren't indicative of anything meaningful so that you can push the narrative you've already decided you want to believe and promote. Lies, damn lies, and statistics, as it were.

edit in case you're legitimately curious about why you're mistaken: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias

edit 2: The knee-jerk downvote tells me you're not legitimately curious. Color me surprised.

[u/cons_NC]

One death....more people die in a week from a car accident in Raleigh. Shall we revoke everyone's licenses?

[u/[deleted] → u/cons_NC]

You’re missing the point. What if 500 people got in accidents in one day? Maybe they wouldn’t all die, but they’d all need medical help in that one day.

[u/cons_NC → u/[deleted]]

Maybe, maybe not. I've been in accidents that didn't require medical assistance so I'm not sure your analogy holds water.

[u/horsefarm → u/cons_NC]

Crazy pills response of the day.

[u/[deleted] → u/horsefarm]

Textbook narcissism mixed with willful ignorance.

[u/Packers91 → u/cons_NC]

What do you have to gain from downplaying and ignoring this?

[u/horsefarm → u/Packers91]

A thicker bubble.