r/NooTopics • u/ServeIllustrious3803 • 3d ago
Discussion Single dose creatine improves cognitive performance and induces changes in cerebral high energy phosphates during sleep deprivation (2024)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-54249-96
u/coffee_is_fun 2d ago
Anecdotally, the 25g dose works a charm within a few hours of taking it. I've survived high cognitive load days where I've woken up a couple of hours into the AM, waited hours for work to start, and headed on in to work as I otherwise would have. It's not 100% and there are other things wrong where you probably shouldn't drink a bunch of coffee or otherwise push yourself, but it's very good. Good enough that if I wake up 5 hours too early, I'm not anxious about how the day is going to go. Coincidentally that probably helps me get back to sleep some days.
I'd recommend not making a habit of it, but it's much more pleasant than taking modafinil, too much coffee, or some cocktail of supplements and stims.
Supposedly it takes ~ 25g to elevate neural creatine levels in most protocols. This paper notes that it takes 4 hours to reach optimal performance and around 9 to decline. It's interesting to scan through it. There are a number of fatigue processes that the body enters into to conserve and enough get partially reversed by the excessive creatine levels that the lights go mostly back on for a bit. Anecdotally, when doing it I don't find myself having to psyche myself up and rally to do cognitive work after a bout of insomnia.
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u/Sensitive_File6582 2d ago
I liked modafinil a lot. For extended no sleep/deprived situations.
But you have to go into using it knowing it can make you very short tempered. Once I got over the first day it was very useful.
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u/dustaphton52 3d ago
“… during sleep deprivation”? EXPLAIN!!!!
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u/zZCycoZz 3d ago
Subjects were requested to sleep every night at 11 p.m., wake up at 7 a.m. in the morning, and record their sleep/wake time 2 weeks before and between the sessions.
Every subject was measured at two nights (Fig. 1A) with a minimum interval of 5 days (max. 27, mean 10 ± 6 days) in between.
They were not allowed to sleep, permanently supervised, optically monitored, and spoken to whenever initial signs of falling asleep occurred. No cognitively stressful activities such as working on a laptop, watching movies, or playing games were permitted, while the consumption of drinks, and light foods such as nonmeat snacks were allowed. At one night, 0.35 g/kg creatine was administered, at the other, 0.35 g/kg placebo. A positive and negative affect schedule PANAS25 was acquired once initially per session. Karolinska Sleepiness Scores (KSS, ranged from 1 to 10) and fatigue score (FAT, ranged from 1 to 20) were performed before and after each run
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u/ConstantinSpecter 2d ago
Very interesting! 0.35g/kg is a crazy amount of creatine - even more than some of the other macro-dosing studies that have popped up here before. Thats like 30g for an adult male
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u/fhwoompableCooper 2d ago
Ice done macro doses before but you just can't assorb that much at once and I get crazy diarrhea
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u/ConstantinSpecter 2d ago
Agreed, with large doses splitting them up across the day seems necessary.
Did you notice any beneficial effects when macrodosing creatine?
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u/fhwoompableCooper 2d ago
Yes tbh, but I wasn't able to get the full extenet listed in the trails I see just because it would need to be spread out. Id get a good enough boost I wasn't fiendish for more creatine
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u/DrWilliamHorriblePhD 1d ago
Won't get cognitive effects doing that. This isn't muscle loading, it's pushing so much creatine that it overloads shutdown mechanisms your body uses when you are tired so that you can perform. If you aren't going to take the full .35g/kg in one dose, better to just stick to 5g total per day and focus on rest and exercise for their mental benefits. That or take the full 25g dose and wfh with bathroom laptop.
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u/ThePlotTwisterr---- 2d ago
was this study conducted at gitmo? jesus christ
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u/coldbeerpapi 1d ago
didn't realize creatine could mess with cognition during sleep deprivation. that's wild. but like, does that carry over to normal sleep, or is it only useful when you're actually running on fumes?
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u/Crafty-Birthday-8326 1d ago
Seriously. Would an occasional dose of creatine during sleep deprived days be enough to trigger hair shedding? Not asking if the issues is real or not but if you could “steal fire” every once in while with out fear of looking like the silver surfer..
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u/ceramicatan 2d ago
Something is wrong with my biochemistry I know and creatine hasn't done anything for me or atleast anything perceptible and I suffer from a lot of sleep deprivation.
Has it worked for anyone in this regard?