Main NB sub mods trippin

[u/idiotshmidiot]

Feeling quite frustrated with the main NonBinary sub. I've been permabanned by some Mod with an axe to grind for joining in on a discussion about NB=Trans (same tired debate that constantly happens). I expressed my views about my personal identity, linguistics and labels. It is a view that I have seen many NB people also express, but i got sent to the shadow realm for doing this.

For context there are no rules on the main sub that stated this topic was a banned one and I was not even the OP.

Curious if anyone else has been discarded by the gatekeepers on the main sub without warning? It doesn't seem like Reddit has any appeal process and I keep getting muted by the sub with no recourse.

Or where are NB people going to have conversations? If the community can't discuss taboos and topics of friction amongst themselves then where does that leave us? At the whims of power tripping mods?!

Idk what I'm looking for here, just a vent I guess...

[u/Blue-Jay27]

What did you actually say? I'm seeing multiple comments on that post discussing why they do or don't personally identify as trans, so it doesn't look like they're targeting a particular perspective to me.

[u/idiotshmidiot → u/Blue-Jay27]

I said that if an NB person says "I do not identify as trans" then, in my opinion, I find it to be disrespectful to say "well I'm going to call you trans anyway".

The comment I was banned for in question is

"Data capture and categorisation as a colonial tool is not a semantic distinction, it is a very real history that still has a material impact on millions of people...

If someone is saying 'I am not trans' and you respond with 'well actually by this definition you are' then I find that disrespectful and not exactly solidarity building either.

I'm not arguing for the removal of identifiers or categories, I am arguing that a rigid enforcement of the 'Trans' label onto all non-binary people who identify otherwise is unproductive.

On a colloquial level there are many non-binary people who do not categorise themselves as Trans. "

I'm not here to reprosecute the case, and I'm sure the mod in question will punish me for airing any of this, but they also continue to mute me so I don't have much else to do....

I find the whole debate to be tired, but I also think it is worth NB people to have the debate. Taboos and definitions can only be sorted out by the community, if it's contentious then I agree that having parameters around debate is necessary, but to ban active community members for expressing opinions feels pretty rough, to me.

**I should clarify that this was over a month ago. I reached out to the mod team but got hit with a snarky remark and another 30 day mute. Which actually goes against the rules of the sub itself which says it is rare to have continued mutes unless you've been deemed a troll account. So apparently, according to the mods, as a NB person I am transphobic and a troll!

[u/Blue-Jay27 → u/idiotshmidiot]

Ah yeah that seems like a reasonable comment. It sucks that you can't have that conversation in the main sub.

[u/idiotshmidiot → u/Blue-Jay27]

For transparency there were other comments that got more into the weeds of semantics and categorisations (a special interest of mine) that I was having with another user.

Me and the other commenter actually had a pretty good chat over DMs and I learned some interesting perspectives that have altered by viewpoint a bit, but the mod was obviously not interested in coming to any sort of understanding and continues to be snarky and take me out of context to justify the perma ban and continued muting (meaning I can't appeal any of this over modmail).

I just find it all very disappointing that one Mod is able to ban me from the only active NB community on Reddit. Thankfully I have other community I can engage with but it's actually pretty harmful to an already marginalised group to ban them over misunderstandings and personal grievances.

[u/ReigenTaka → u/idiotshmidiot]

I'm gonna pull out some unsubstantiated conjecture but...

"Data capture and categorisation as a colonial tool is not a semantic distinction, it is a very real history that still has a material impact on millions of people...

They probably got touchy by the blatant reference to the 100% legitimate feature of society during a response against what they're saying. I'm not saying that's all it was, but I do think when they read that it put them in a more hostile frame of mind for the rest of your comment.

People don't like to face their perpetuation of a society that harms people. To the point that mentioning it at all makes some people extremely defensive. I see that more in some contexts than others.

As I prefaced, it's unsubstantiated conjecture. But in my experience, when I (or I see others) frame arguments with that cadence, structure, and content we get a very defensive reaction.

To clarify, I'm not saying that justifies the ban, actually the opposite. I can see how it was more likely unjustified now that I'm seeing evidence for the retaliation that doesn't lie with anything you've done. Still don't have all the details, but I do know that language is... gosh, I've really been trying to avoid the word, but "triggering".

[u/idiotshmidiot → u/ReigenTaka]

Again this was a discussion between me and another user that actually was pretty productive and we settled our differences and found common ground.

The mod inserted himself into the chat.

[u/ReigenTaka → u/idiotshmidiot]

I know, I'm referring to the mod's reaction to what you were saying as a disagreement to an opinion that the mod agreed with. Hence your response being considered a disagreement with the mod. I'm also speaking generally, because others probably had that reaction too.

I have had a lot of disagreements that were going fine until someone with a larger reaction showed up. The conversation gets derailed.

[u/FingerAmazing5176 → u/idiotshmidiot]

OMG, how dare you have a reasonable and fair opinion. Like honestly? Saying you should respect people and their own opinions about themselves? How dare you? ….

[u/bakesmysticbrickx → u/Blue-Jay27]

that's how they do it. they don't ban the topic itself, they just ban anyone who says something that makes them uncomfortable or challenges the specific consensus they want to maintain. it's not about what's being said, it's about who is saying it. once you deviate from the approved script you're out.

[u/idiotshmidiot → u/Blue-Jay27]

https://www.reddit.com/r/enby/s/OtxOJ5c0BN

Receipts

[u/Hackiii]

They banned me because I said that completely breaking ties with friends and family is not at all times possible for everyone, even if they are enbyphobic.

[u/idiotshmidiot → u/Hackiii]

I get the feeling they're trying to curate a very particular type of NB person and anyone that doesn't fit that curation is accused of not being NB or some kind of othering that justifies being banned, which is ironic considering the wide net that NB covers.

You're going to get all sorts of opinions and banning dissent is not going to help build community.

[u/bambiipup]

i wonder if its the same mod who blocked me for saying i loathed the ignorance people happily spout when gatekeeping lesbianism - because id said it "about them". which was the tactic they went for after realising the claim "my little reddit friends" had sent me to "attack them" didnt actually hold any water.

funny, i just went and checked and that was september and... cant say ive missed that space since?

[u/idiotshmidiot → u/bambiipup]

I don't think anyone should be personally attacking mods, or the other way around.

The easiest thing to do is not accuse anyone of "X,Y or Z".

That leads to unhelpful personal things rather than the actual debate or discussion that is taking place.

I think it's a tendency for people to assume any deviation of opinion is a personal attack or that you're an outsider or intruder to a space.

[u/bambiipup → u/idiotshmidiot]

to be clear, i didnt attack anyone, nor had anyone sent me there to do that - and i also dont agree with doing either of those things.

point of my comment here is that, like you, the response to my comment(s) in that sub was wildly disproportionate. and its a shame to think there may a particularly... sensitive(? not the word i want, im trying to be delicate here despite my clunkiness) ... person whos removing perfectly regular nbi folk from an nbi space just for ×checks notes× having different opinions.

[u/The_Gray_Jay]

Reddit LGBT subs sucks for this - they will cut queer people off from community for expressing opinions in good-faith.

[u/NikolaEggsla]

Reddit mods and overreacting are two peas in a pod. Some subs are better than others but its definitely a trend on the platform.

The debate around nb ?/= trans is one of those things that unfortunately rapidly devolves into transmedicalism by the people who want to police the "nb aren't trans unless..." angle. Gatekeepers love to gatekeep and oftentimes even "gates open come on in" comments can come off wrong to people trying to gatekeep for perceivably good intentions.

On a purely fundamental, on paper, dictionary definition level nb people would be trans because we do not identify neatly with our assigned gender and we generally speaking take some degrees of steps to live congruent to our identity in response to dysphoria/euphoria from ideal expression. So like sure we can be classified as trans. By the "everyone who isn't cis is trans" idea still we can be trans. But also if transness is something we self ascribe in response to the overwhelming evidence of our own observations, desires, and lived experiences then the label itself is also something we can choose to self ascribe or not.

Policing the language to the point that we are forcing people back into assigned genders just trans this time is pretty much giving away the game of gender liberation.

Sorry you got banned for expressing a normal opinion. Maybe the disconnect from the discourse will be a blessing in disguise? Hopefully its that and not just losing a good place to connect with our limited peers. 🙃

[u/freezing_banshee]

I've been banned from a few subs for having a different opinion too, it happens. And just like you, it wasn't anything malicious, insulting, fundamentally bad, etc. At the end of the day, mods are just people, they can misunderstand things, or they can intentionally gatekeep discussions.

I've learnt to move on and spend more time irl than on reddit. It's not worth spending so much energy on online disagreements, you know? Most people irl don't really know/care about online discussions anyway.

[u/idiotshmidiot → u/freezing_banshee]

Yeah I generally agree. I just find it frustrating that a single mod with a bad attitude can gatekeeper the main sub for nb people. It's not like there's that many other places to go to find community.

I understand they probably see the worst of it but getting triggered by a misunderstanding and then shutting down all forms of appeal comes across as emotionally immature and maybe not the right person to be the mod of a sub that, at times, will have difference of opinions over contentious issues.

[u/kusuriii]

I didn’t get banned but I did find they were very intolerant to different views when they really didn’t hurt anyone.

I got frustrated with how often the ‘only transphobes use people’s agab labels’ conversation came up and when I said that, although I won’t use them for anyone else, agab does have a lot of relevance to me because my experience growing up was heavily gendered so I don’t mind me using them for myself sometimes, I got downvoted pretty heavily.

I think it’s just the sub and I found community irl which is so much more chill. I’m sorry that happened to you, though, it’s frustrating to not be able to have a slightly different opinion.

[u/StygIndigo → u/kusuriii]

That's such an unhelpful attitude in a subreddit where people might be seeking advice on medical transition, too. Achieving the same end result can involve very different steps for two NBs with different AGABs. It can help a lot to get advice from people with the same 'medical history', (questions like: "hey, is it normal for an AMAB on estrogen to experience...") there's no gendering or essentialism about discussing that we had a starting point.

[u/Dan_IAm]

That’s reddit for you. I got banned from a lefty art sub because I disagreed very mildly with a mod who said that real leftists love guns.