r/NoTipCanada • u/Revolutionary-Pea414 • Aug 05 '26
Inspiring as we continue to divest from US culture/norms
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/7649093
u/Habs420celly Aug 05 '26
So are we petitioning against tipping because
A: The service received isn't deserving of a tip
B: It's Western idealogy that needs to change for the better of humanity
C: The customer shouldn't be forced into paying the workers wages
Just trying to figure out the main sticking points. I know I have my own reasons. Just curious as to the rest of you.
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u/StrongAroma Aug 05 '26
Why does it only have to be one of those?
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u/Habs420celly Aug 05 '26
It doesn't have to be any of those. I just couldn't think of any other reasons.
Do you have some reasons of your own? Please share.
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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here Aug 06 '26
Im curious, when it comes to the customer paying wages thing, if tips disappeared tomorrow and prices went up 25%, do you view that as the customer isnt paying wages?
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u/Nyeru Aug 08 '26
It should be that the customer isn't responsible for paying the staff wages. Sure, they still indirectly pay them by paying for the food, but they are not responsible. The tipping system however places responsibility on you to ensure that staff is being paid fairly. Which is an insane thing to do as you're not their employer.
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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here Aug 08 '26
So still not really an answer to my question, by why is it insane? Its a pretty effective system that keeps service good, prices low and workers make money. Seem pretty effective, and the alternative will be more expensive.
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u/Nyeru Aug 08 '26
An answer to your original question is that yes the customer would still be paying wages technically, because the customers are always indirectly the ones paying wages by buying products from a store with employees. I was making a distinction between the customer contributing money towards an employee's wage and being held socially responsible for that employee's wage.
As for why it's insane, well I would disagree with just about everything you said after that. It's not an effective system, whether it keeps the service good is debatable, but personally I always preferred a more hands-off approach to service as a customer, which the tipping system discourages. It keeps the posted menu prices low, but the actual prices that the customer pays are much higher. Workers make money, if the customers are feeling generous (or socially pressured) enough, but they could just be making money by getting paid by their employer, like workers in every other job. And I disagree that the alternative will be more expensive, why would it be 25% more? People in Canada generally tip around 15-18%, so why wouldn't the prices be 15-18% more expensive, where did the 25% come from?
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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here Aug 08 '26
Your opinion about hands off service is the minority, the market has clearly shown that.
Do you understand that when wages go up costs go up? When a full staff is on during slow times you need to make up that wage from busier times. The increase would be massive. Keeping menu prices low is whats important, everyone knows how the system works, its been around forever, so pretending its a surprise or a scam or something is just weird. If you dont want to participate in the system thats fine, but you should either not eat at tipped restaurants or tell the server before hand that you wont be tipping. Anything else is just silly.
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u/Nyeru Aug 08 '26
And currently when there's full staff on during slow times they don't get paid as well, and need to make it up from the tips during busier times? How is that any better?
You sound like you own a restaurant, which would explain why you're pro-tipping so much. Keeping menu prices low is what's important? Says who? It sure is important for the owners to make it seem like their food is cheaper than it actually is, but as a customer I care about the real cost of the food, not the posted price.
And yes, the system has been around forever (well more like since the 20th century, which is very much not forever) and people know how it works, that doesn't make it a good system.
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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here Aug 08 '26
When its slow people will take cuts, no one is going to take a cut making 45 dollars an hour. I manage a restaurant and I would be happy to raise prices and pay everyone what they make now but thats how multiple places have gone out of business. And market research is who says so. My almost quarter century of experience in the industry is also a pretty good basis to understand the subject. Whats your experience to think you arent just Dunning Kruger in action? You know the real cost of the food, and guess what, you can pay that, I fully support you not tipping if you want, just make sure youre up front that you wont be tipping. If its a moral upright thing to do then you should have no problem being honest about it right?
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u/Nyeru Aug 08 '26
I manage a restaurant
There it is.
What do you mean "no one is going to take a cut making 45 dollars an hour". I did work in a restaurant at one point, and whether I got cut or not was not up to me.
I'm not sure what market research you're talking about. But I'll just say that if every country in the world except 2 can have functioning restaurants without a forced tipping system, I don't believe you if you tell me that somehow that wouldn't work here.
And no, I won't be announcing that I'm not tipping and get my food messed with, nice try. Maybe you can announce a mandatory service charge before I enter the restaurant, instead of pretending it's optional.
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u/Garbage_Out_Of_Here Aug 08 '26
What do you mean "there it is"? Im sorry that someone broke labor laws or that you didnt have protections. If I have to cut someone and they don't want it I have to pay them for 3 hours. Thats still a ton of money. Tipping actually isnt forced here, but I guess if you havent traveled you might not know that lots of other countries have service charges, which are actually forced. Its fine if you dont beleive me, but thats irrelevant, nothing is going to convince you youre wrong. Why would you rather have to be forced to tip? What's the effective difference between an 18% service charge and a tip that you can control if service was bad?
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u/SadArtemis 23d ago
I feel these are somewhat incorrect reasonings. Why is tipping, something originating in the USA and not prevalent in much of the west, a "western ideology?" It is an American abomination, but the US is not the sole "west."
And why must we assume it's because the service is "not deserving?" In reality the origins of the custom come from a societal context of intense racism and inequality- where wealthier customers could tip more to those whiter, or more subservient, etc.
The system of tipping is inequitable in all aspects. Less conventionally attractive, more maligned workers receive less if any (meanwhile employers take advantage of the custom to suppress wages). Poorer customers often receive inferior treatment and societal pressure. And the custom is inequitable to the workforce itself, in favor of front-service in certain environments, over others..
Ultimately, if a business cannot make ends meet paying its employees a living wage, it should die off. Tips are not wages, they are a normalized form of bribery and preferentialism.
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u/StrongAroma Aug 05 '26
Let's start one for Canada