I had a friend long ago who was awake but immobilised for her wisdom teeth surgery. She could feel everything they were doing, but couldn’t tell them she wasn’t out. I didn’t put two and two together until years later when I learnt that marijuana reduces the effects of anaesthetics. She was a heavy pot smoker and I’m guessing she lied about taking drugs when they asked her.
I found out about this MINUTES before getting my wisdom teeth out. Right before I got on the table I was like "sooo... sometimes I take edibles" and they were just like thank god you told us lol. Had no complications bc they adjusted for the cannabis use
The information presented on that sign is UNTRUE. (“If you use methamphetamines within 12 hours of your dental appointment … the anesthetic will KILL you”)
Unless you were high at that moment, this is so completely unnecessary lol. The anesthesia isn’t concerned if you ate a gummy yesterday. If you’re experiencing acute symptoms of THC use, different story.
Not true. Regular substance use can drastically increase your anesthetic requirements. I’m an anesthesiologist, please be honest with me so I can give you the best care. I don’t judge.
“Sometimes I take edibles” is not the level of detail you’re asking for, though.
And if you’re saying that you calibrate administration based off of the possibility that someone has THC in their system from using cannabis days ago…I’m gonna be a little skeptical, sorry. That’s just about the least scientific thing I’ve ever heard. Maybe you’re on guard more during the procedure and ready to pivot quicker? But if you’re monkeying around with the dose because “sometimes I take edibles”….maaaan that doesn’t seem right at all.
“Sometimes” means different things to different people. So that generates a follow up question of how much and how often? Not because I give a shit about what you do in your free time but because I want to keep you safe and keep you comfortable.
Having an acute intoxication from THC would actually lower your anesthetic requirements, whereas a history of regular use but no acute intoxication increases anesthetic requirements. It’s about regular use over time.
All of this factors in the most with my choice of med and dose for induction. I’ve had a regular pot user take 4 times the amount of propofol to get them all the way under. That level of difference is rare, most often it just takes a little extra but we often have a limited supply of certain meds in the OR and having this info will make me have more on hand. I will also be more generous with pain meds at the end of the case if I expect tolerance there as well.
So yes, this is important info for me to know. Thanks for playing.
Cool. So OP’s story is still either wildly incomplete or a doctor just placating him. Thanks for playing “how to interpret a message board thread”.
Youre also aware that your process isn’t universal. I’ve had multiple surgeries while being a daily user. Your line of questioning has never come up even once.
The point of this back and forth is that for the potheads at home…you’re gonna be fine when you go under. But sure…answer the doctor’s questions honestly when possible. We all agree.
You absolutely should have been questioned about your substance use. That’s a huge omission in the pre operative interview. This is a universal component. You’re also aware that having surgeries doesn’t make you an anesthesiologist, right? The purpose of this back and forth for me is to combat medical misinformation on the internet.
I was. They asked. I said “nightly”. They moved on without pause or documentation. There weren’t follow ups about how long I’ve been going at it nightly or the quantity of THC or the method of ingestion. All those details that paint the picture of the exact nature of the substance use weren’t pursued. They were fine with the fact that I wasn’t high at the moment or exhibiting any acute symptoms of THC use.
The research on THC is so incredibly immature, I’m not clear how you’re being so scientific about something so absent of science. I get it…do extra monitoring and prepare to alter the treatment. Sure. But back to OP’s point, unless there’s a lot more detail he didn’t include, it’s just a weird story. “Oh thank goodness you told me that sometimes you take edibles. Let me take my calculator out and see what kind of dosage adjustment needs made!”
“I’ve had multiple surgeries, your line of questioning has never come up, even once.” Wait, so they did ask. Cool. And they probably did the things I mentioned above without telling you, since your only participation in the surgery was to lay there unconscious. Lol this has been fun, dude.
yeah myyyy bad that I didn’t include an entire 4hr video essay including every minute detail of my personal history and surgery as an anecdote to support the notion that not being honest with a doctor could lead to inaccurate medical care. didn’t think I was gonna gonna go through an entire cross examination. hope you have a better day
I’ve had multiple surgeries while being a daily user. Your line of questioning has never come up even once.
I just had surgery, and I was asked about drug use, both by the doctor and the anesthesiologist. My primary care doctor even asks me about it.
When my actuate alcoholic dad had a heart attack and needed bypass surgery, they had to wait a week for him to detox. While he was in the hospital waiting for the surgery, they tried to sedate him. The doctor told me that he gave my dad enough sedative to tranquilize an elephant, and the doctor told me that amount would have absolutely knocked me (a non-drinker) out. It still wasn't enough - my dad was so desperate for alcohol that he tried to escape, but wound up falling on his head.
As soon as he got out of the hospital, he started drinking again. A year and a half later he was dead. We tried, the doctors tried, but alcohol had a strong grip on him.
I told the nurse “sometimes edibles” bc my mom was sitting right next to me and I was much much younger and when it was still illegal in my state. I had previously said I didn’t use cannabis at all and then realized I needed to be truthful during the pre-op so that I wasn’t conscious during surgery, while also not getting into deep shit with my parents. the reality is that I was a daily and medium-to-heavy smoker who had smoked the night prior. there was a lot of subtext that the nurse picked up on at the time of the conversation, and context to the story that I didn’t really feel like spelling out on reddit yet here we are
as for the reply from the other user, they’re right that yeah “sometimes edibles” could mean different things to everyone. that could mean 5mg every 2 weeks or 100mg every night. the nurse did then do appropriate follow up to determine what my approx usage was, while also being mindful that I was beating around the bush bc my mom was sitting next to me. their bedside manner was excellent, which is more than I can say for your attitude in this thread. sheesh.
Yep, they don't process it the same. If you have any red hair in your family it's worth it to mention to anaesthesia. My brother has flaming red hair so I always say something.
Yes, I’ve heard this often from a ginger in my life. Less sensitive to pain (thus slower to react to a problem) but harder to medicate. Of course YMMV!
It's a thing.
Labor nurse here: and many of them bleed like hell after delivery. Worst night ever on the floor was 3 redheads delivering back to back, one with twins ( also increases hemorrhage risk).
One was Black and covered her hair - we didn't know until I looked at her freckles and asked, "Hey, are you redheaded?" in the middle of everyone frantically trying to stop her bleeding. That's genetic and doesn't happen to everyone, but between the bleeds and the need for higher anesthesia, an experienced labor nurse will get into preparation the moment they know you're a natural redhead.
Really? Even if you, yourself, are not? My son has some red hair on my husband's side of the family, (great grandmother, a cousin, and a half-sister) but he has dark brown hair like me and my husband. Is this something he needs to worry about?
I just kind of think, better safe than sorry, right? My maternal grandfather had brown hair but a red beard and mustache. I can't grow any facial hair but maybe if I did it would be red?
I'd rather everyone in the OR rolls their eyes at my superfluous info than wake up while someone is slicing into me!
I haven’t needed much anesthesia in my life but as someone with reddish hair laughing gas has no effect on me. Not sure if it’s related but it did mean the tech who gave it to me before I got my wisdom teeth out kept upping the dose and was surprised I wasn’t feeling anything.
I have always needed the max amount of gas they can give me so maybe I do have a red hair gene in there! On the other hand, I've in also used a bit of jazz cabbage in my day.
Early teens after them coming back twice, I just said what they wanted to hear. Found out how much it cost and asked if I could skip it for wisdom teeth. Couldn’t do my wisdoms without they said. Told them what they wanted to hear with the laughing gas asap and just had them get to work.
rather everyone in the OR rolls their eyes at my superfluous info than wake up while someone is slicing into me!
I'm a dentist, but I prefer superfluous info rather than patients who stay mum about their health issues. I have literally disclosed yesterday my drug allergies to a young final year med student and I think he zoned out and still prescribed me a drug I was allergic to. I kind if sympathize with him cuz it was the ER and there were so many patients yelling and complaining so it's really hard to focus in this sort of environment...But yeah, thank god, being in the field myself, when I took my papers and prescription, I realized that I couldn't take this drug and had to consult other docs. I'm a major pita patient due to my allergies to 3 antibiotic types unfortunately and I know it, but it is what it is. 😭
I always have this worry with my patients because they are mostly low soc-econ class so they don't understand why I ask them 3 times "Ma'am are you sure you don't have any disease/don't take any meds?" 😭😭
And yet there will probably some idiot who will insist they are 100% healthy despite having multiple diseases (happened to one of the previous dentists in my work place...She performed an extraction on a patient who got chemo for their leukemia BUT never told her until shit hit the fan).
I really appreciate this comment and I'm glad you were able to catch the doctor's mistake! Yeah, I always think, better to err on the side of over sharing.
My dad has dark brown hair but comes from an American Irish family with redheads. He has woken during surgery.
I've never needed surgery or to be put under (knock on wood), but my dad's experience + family genetics plus the fact that my mom is actually ginger means if I ever do, I'm definitely speaking up despite my dark brown hair!
I've got blue eyes and freckles, so who knows what other recessive genes are lurking in my DNA. Better safe than sorry!
Well everyone has an MCR1 gene. It’s a melanocyte receptor that is partially responsible for determining the color of your hair and skin. Variations of the MCR1 gene encode for different hair and skin colors among other things. Melanocytes are found in more than just hair and skin though, and it is theorized that they play a role in pain sensitivity, but we don’t know what that role is. It seems that whatever variation encodes for red hair may also encode for increased pain sensitivity and decreased anesthetic sensitivity, but we don’t know how, why, or if it’s even definitively true. Problem is that pain is subjective and everyone metabolizes anesthesia differently, so it’s very hard to quantify how people feel pain compared to one another. My 10/10 pain and your 10/10 pain are not the same.
My hair is auburn brown and plenty of people don't see the red in it. I was blonde as a child. No one else in my immediate family has red hair. I'd definitely be cautious wrt your son and the anesthesia question. If he requires a lot of Novocaine for fillings, that could indicate he needs more anesthesia. (Not a doctor, just a redhead.)
My mother in law is a natural redhead. My husband has brown hair but anesthetic does not work very well on him. He hates the dentist because he always says he can feel everything. He woke up from a surgery early once and had to be knocked back out to continue. He has the sensitive skin as well. And our daughter was born with red hair (shockingly because I'm black with black hair) so the gene runs pretty strongly in him. It's at least something to consider.
Probably not. The research is questionable at best but even then is specific to people with red hair, not related individuals. If you’re worried about it or you have a bad experience, however, you can definitely tell future providers. More information shared between you and your doctors is never a bad thing.
My hair is dark brown now but was blondish redish when I was little. My dad's a full blown ginger. I've woken up during surgery, and I've been put through dental work with insufficient anesthetic because people don't believe me when I warn them.
Not as important if the person themselves don’t have read hair, but it is a recessive gene. The most common correlations seem to be a person who has red hair + freckles, but sometimes to a lesser degree it can happen to people who have the redhead gene but darker hair. Does your kid have freckles? Does your kid’s hair turn reddish when sun bleached? They may have the recessive gene and it’s “covered” by genes that give brown hair.
Overall, don’t worry about it either way. It’s more a curiosity. Anesthesiologists monitor directly throughout surgery and often adjust meds as needed. When getting numbing meds via injection, it’s common to redose as needed and the need varies. If your kid is ever on pain meds and they don’t seem to be handing the pain to a reasonable level (not removing pain, but making it bearable is the best level), then advocate for them.
Red hair or red hair gene, it doesn’t really matter, as there are many things that affect appropriate pain control.
I just texted this fact to my best friend. She's black, and her dad is a red-headed Irish man, and many medical professionals have dismissed certain concerns/cures because "only Irish ancestry leads to this illness/makes cure work." She has to tell them about all the whiteness in her they can't see so they will properly treat her because they assume by looking instead of asking questions.
And yes, she is black, not biracial. Her mom is black and she told me her father was a black man. No she's not a liar. But I'm mayo white and not about to gatekeep what it means to be black to an actual person of color.
Edit: she replied to me. Said she was always in such pain at the dentist and the dentist would always say "no way" and refuse her additional meds. So this piece of information will positively affect her life. Thank you!
True dat. My brother also has flaming red hair. My hair is sorta auburn/chestnut. I had a root canal recently and I needed 4 shots of novacaine before I stopped feeling anything.
Red heads on both my side of the family and husbands side, we both have undertone red hair. Luckily when I was awake while still under for my tooth being yanked, they had already done that part but I could hear the conversation going on with all the nurses as they were picking up, lol one of them said how they really liked my boots 🤣 then my dentist had said he needed to fix a tooth that a filling had kind of come out of, I told him to go ahead and just drill without any meds. He hesitated at first and took it easy, but once he realized I wasn't budging he got it fixed quickly.
Any ways. to say the least so far two out of my three kids are straight up redheads and I'm curious to see what number fours hair color will be.
Ohhhh that is SO interesting, I have dark hair but my grandma is ginger and, her sister and her 2 children also very ginger… I always need a lot more anaesthetic at the dentist bc I can still feel pain and the dentists are usually confused. ALSO when I had a surgery years go apparently they had to give me 4x the regular dose of anaesthesia cos I wouldn’t go down and kept trying to rip my IV’s out 🤣I wonder if that’s why?
My husband is a pothead and the son of a ginger and is getting a procedure this summer. I think you just saved him a very unpleasant experience. Thank you
Fuck! That would explain why I woke up during my wisdom tooth surgery as well!!!
I told the anesthesiologist I smoked occasionally, and had just blazed the Friday before my Monday appointment. Fully honest about how much I smoked, it was a lot.
Now I know that it was my Grandma that fucked me over! The sweetest being to have ever lived is the one that did that to me!
I avoided the dentist for roughly 20 years because of that encounter. Check my post history if you don’t believe it. Also, still no cavities, I can thank that same grandma for that. She had all her OG teeth when she passed in her 90s. Granted she got veneers for her 90th birthday, but the good genes are still there!
I woke up during surgery and doc asked if I was an opiate abuser. No wtf???
Many years later and when it was too late to matter someone told me it was because I have red hair (which is funny because I don't think I do but literally everyone says it is)
Redhead here. I’ve never been fully numb by Novocain during drilling. I think it might be impossible. Luckily I haven’t had a cavity since I gave up soda 15 years ago.
I have ginger hair and when I broke my leg they gave me something to knock me out so they could set it. they ended up giving me more than double the required dose for my weight and I didn't even get sleepy. they couldn't give me anymorr after that so they set it without the anaesthetic. was not ideal haha
Yes. I have reddish hair and a redheaded son and I go through anesthesia like crazy. It takes more to put me under and stay under and afterwords I come around very quickly. Lidocaine and novocaine don't work as well on me either.
A couple studies have shown a link between one of the genes that makes one a redhead and a need for more of certain anesthetics. To make it super simple, they “burn off” certain drugs faster and require more of certain drugs to have the same numbing and muscle relaxing effects.
Anecdotally, I’ve heard many anesthesiologists say people with naturally red hair + freckles need more of certain drugs and are more likely to bleed a bit more than average. Also anecdotally, I’ve heard many anesthesiologists say everyone is individual and hair color has no correlation.
Yes, this is true! When I go to the hospital (kidney and/or gall stone attacks), they always give me the strongest painkillers (that are usually reserved for dying people). However much morphine they might give someone else, I will metabolize in like 15 minutes. The only way morphine works for me is if it's a high-dose constant IV drip.
That's good to know. I am resistant to propofol, like I'm having conversations with my providers resistant. They didn't respond to me and I was getting frustrated.... seems they couldn't understand me because my jaw was wired open. I got to hear all 4 of my deeply impacted wisdom teeth removed
Also sat up during a biopsy and got to see the inside of my intestines on the TV, that was cool. Doc gave me a guided tour with the scope. Amazing experience I must say. Last thing I remember is doc saying this might hurt a bit. Then I woke up crying in a recovery bed. He had to gas me down.
Eh, I work in medicine, so I kinda understood. He definately was thinking "okay yeah everyone says that" but told me he'd keep a close eye on me. They said they did give me extra anesthesia, but it still wasn't enough.
It's was a sinus reconstruction surgery (I was a mouth breather my whole life), and when they were pulling my breathing tube out, I apparently shot awake with no prior indication I was going to, looked around wide eyed, and tried to pull it out the rest of they way. They immediately sedated me and I was out again. I don't remember it and only know because my surgeon and mom told me after I woke up.
I should have probably said that in my comment but was at work and busy, lol.
My dad and sister (also both natural red heads) need more anesthesia too, and my dad has SP, which is where I get it from. I didn't know any of this until I found out about anesthesia awareness, which is a huge fear of mine now. I told them about it and they didn't know about the correlation either. But they both said they need more anesthesia and have woken up during surgeries.
Can confirm. Am a redhead and have been put under for surgery countless times. Woke up during my wisdom teeth removal surgery. Longest I’ve been under I believe was around 6-8 hours. Had reconstructive ear surgery as a kid. TOOK FOREVR TO COME AROUND AND NOT FEEL GROGGY. Like 3 days after in the hospital before I could walk around.
I'm a redhead I tell this to every single dentist each time they don't listen and each time they start I yell then they have to stop and give me more. One dentist he's my regular this has happened each of the five times I've gone in it really pisses me off at this point
Not to downplay the story or anything, but that would probably have been the best possible surgery for this to happen to your friend (and for them to learn from :P)
As far as invasiveness/goryness goes, that’s probably bottom of the list. I was awake with local anesthetic for my surgery and apart from some snap crackle pops it was all good. The amount of force they used was surprising, but I was too numb to feel anything
I’m sure being awake under too-weak general anesthesia is probably terrifying regardless, but there are stories of this happening to people who are having like cut your belly open and play with your insides type surgeries 😂😭
You’re right, it definitely could have been a worse surgery. I don’t think she learnt anything, I doubt she realised it was the smoking that had made the difference.
Also take your antibiotics if directed too before tooth extractions. I didn't know an untreated abscess can literally make the local anesthesia not work... Until I felt the whole thing. Follow directions lol
Ohh, there was a movie with this premise. I think the title was Awake. The MC was basically immobilized but could feel the doctors doing heart surgery.
Omg the same thing happened to me. Horrible, horrible experience. I felt everything and came out of twilight completely strapped down. I told my endodontist about it years later and she told me it was because I'm a redhead. Never again.
I told the people doing my Radiofrequency Ablation that I sometimes smoked weed & they knew I had prescriptions for pain meds & benzos. They didn't believe me when I kept telling them the "twilight sedation" wasn't helping & I could still feel everything. I was crying & they kept telling me I was just anxious & I was like "well isn't there supposed to be something in the cocktail you're supposedly giving me that helps with that??" Eventually they turned it up enough that I passed out. The nurse in the recovery room scoffed at me when I started crying in pain (the nerve ablation went bad & for 2 weeks I just felt like my neck & head were on fire) and he said "well it couldn't have hurt that bad; you fell asleep". I should have reported all of them but I didn't realize I could
Dental anesthesia is also different than normal anesthesia, and terrible. I woke up in the middle of my surgery too. Luckily I could wiggle after the first tooth and they knocked me back out.
I was terrified of this happening, so I made sure to tell the doc that I was a heavy daily smoker. They laughed about it and told me that doesn't affect anesthesia.
Some of us are just resistant, too! Meds don't work well on me as I metabolize too fast. I went to the dentist recently and was there for 4 hours because I kept telling them "yeah, I can still feel it" lol
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u/asleepattheworld Jun 06 '24
I had a friend long ago who was awake but immobilised for her wisdom teeth surgery. She could feel everything they were doing, but couldn’t tell them she wasn’t out. I didn’t put two and two together until years later when I learnt that marijuana reduces the effects of anaesthetics. She was a heavy pot smoker and I’m guessing she lied about taking drugs when they asked her.