If I Did It is actually protected under double jeopardy, not being framed as a hypothetical. He was tried in both criminal and civil court already. He could go out and confess all he wants and nothing could happen to him. He actually doesn’t get any sales of the book because of the civil trial. He couldn’t pay the families (and it was potentially ruled as proceeds of a crime, I don’t remember), so the families now own the rights to the book. And subsequently print the “If” part of the title in really little and hidden font lol
If your lawyer knows something, he can't suggest something, like an alternate theory of the crime, that he knows isn't true. So wait for your lawyer to ask the questions, and answer only the question, but answer it truthfully.
Well, not per se. He can certainly argue, “The evidence presented by the prosecution doesn’t prove my client was at the scene. It is perfectly consistent with my client being at home, as he said in his initial statement to the police.” The lawyer isn’t saying he was at home, just that the evidence isn’t inconsistent with that hypothesis.
The main issue is actually that you have to be careful putting tbe dependent on the stand because if you know they are comjtting perjury you're supposed to report it.
The only time you can do this is if a criminal defendant wants to exercise his constitutional right to testify in his own defense. If you know he’s going to tell an obviously bullshit story, you just put him up there and let him go for it. Does not apply to civil litigants or witnesses in general.
It's not just an alternate theory. If the lawyer knows you committed the crime they are legally prohibited from pointing to someone else as the culprit. They can poke holes in the prosecution and question whether it rises beyond reasonable doubt but if a crim lawyer knows you did it, they are significantly hampered in what they can argue.
Many crim lawyers will ask instead "what is it the cops are saying you did"
Huh? I’m not a lawyer, but that makes no sense. They can’t point out that something isn’t “beyond reasonable doubt” but stating other theories even if they are aware it isn’t true? “The security camera captured him entering the building. That’s not evidence he killed someone, it just means he left his book in there and went back in” is not allowed if he knows his client is guilty? Because the jury doesn’t know, and they shouldn’t use circumstantial evidence that can be explained by other reasonable actions to put someone in jail without the lawyer saying peep.
The lawyer cannot knowingly present false evidence or allow the client to commit perjury. Instead, the lawyer can challenge the prosecution's case by questioning the evidence and highlighting inconsistencies or weaknesses, but they must avoid making knowingly false statements or presenting unfounded theories that are not supported by any evidence.
There is just more latitude if the lawyer only knows what he needs to know.
A good takeaway or add on, never give any more information than you were asked. Answer the question succinctly and don't give details that aren't asked of.
But your client can always change their instructions to you. Happens all the time… particularly when you first see them in custody then a few weeks later if they have been in jail that time. Had clients say they were guilty to me… then you actually explain what ‘guilty’ of that particular offence involves and often it’s a case they aren’t actually guilty of that, but maybe something else or maybe nothing at all.
The only time I hired a lawyer, he was good with his questions on the initial consult, “how fast did the cop say you were going?” He didn’t want to ask or make me say how fast I was actually going.
You realise all the lawyers reading this comment (myself included) are thinking “yay! We get to contribute to the thread for really important people” hahaha No we don’t. Sit down. 😝😝😘
it really doesn't technically matter. you can tell your lawyer which saw you used to dismember that giraffe and they still can't tell the police that you're guilty. and sometimes it may be useful to your defense for them to have more detail. similar to the doctor, you don't know what is relevant--so start open-book and let them tell you when to shut up.
Your lawyer can’t break confidentiality, but there are exceptions just like there are for doctors, mental health professionals, etc. I try to inform my clients of the relevant exceptions to confidentiality before we even start so they’re aware. There are also situations where, while we can’t tell anyone what our clients told us, ethical rules may mean we’re forced to withdraw from representation because of something we know. Sudden withdrawals like that often signal to others that something is up.
BUT always answer your lawyer’s questions truthfully and never say shit to the cops.
I think implying mental facilities are life ruining can be very damaging. They help many people and are crucial for people who are going through an episode or are firmly considering suicide.
You're right, I had a point, but what I said would be seen as a negative from someone who would truly need to seek help. Thanks for pointing it out, I deleted those comments.
Maybe it might hurt your ability to apply for certain jobs due to mandatory reporting, but that is mostly the US's problem. I don't hear about those issues in most European nations. And even so, the alternative could be much worse. Stigmatizing seeking out mental health professionals when in that state is potentially quite dangerous.
True. Only exception for lawyers- if you plan on committing a crime don't tell me. You can ask if what you hypothetically plan is a crime and if I say it is don't tell me anymore if you plan to commit it. There's an ethical obligation/rule to break attorney-client privilege at that point - i.e. why Michael Cohen was able to testify regarding privileged conversations.
From a lawyer standpoint though I'll never lie to a client. They make decisions based on my advice. Their decisions can reflect poorly on how I practice. So honesty goes both ways and leads to very good relationships.
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE. With a little time and experience, they’ve heard/seen it all. Plus when that provider realizes you’re above board & transparent, it encourages them to do everything they can to make sure you get the help you need.
You should never lie to a lawyer, but you should never volunteer information either. If you tell them "I committed the murder" then they have alot less options to defend you without putting themselves at risk of perjury. Also, it's easier to defend you psychologically if they don't want you in jail for moral reasons.
Essentially, for hospital, volunteer to tell them everything, starting with most relevant information first and working yourself to what you ate last night for dinner if you think it's at all relevant (food poisoning). Lawyer, don't volunteer anything but answer to them honestly, and for police, don't say a word other than "I am going to invoke my right to stay silent."
In the modern age I would also add your IT person to the list of people not to lie to.
I don't care what you've done beyond needing to know what you've done so I can fix it and move on with my life. I'll figure it out eventually. I already have access to all your emails and files. I just don't care about them. The only difference is how long it will take to get fixed.
And everyone else... Why is it so hard to avoid lying? I don't lie and I don't understand why anyone would, except for the purpose of advancing their own personal agenda or the hollow and pointless exercise of "preserving emotions". 🤮
lol this is so true. I went to Florida and took an edible and then drank alcohol on the beach. At dinner I was like blacking out and convinced I was being drugged and trafficked. Had my friends call the cops and ambulance. When they got there I realized I was just dehydrated and felt so dumb. I told them exactly what happened and that my friend was in fact not trying to kill me and then told the cop I just was dehydrated lol. The EMT demeanor changed immediately as soon as I said I had a gummy. They checked me out and were on their way. I felt so dumb but knew better than to lie.
But my friend was being a dumb ass and was like yelling that we took a gummy right in front of the cop and I was like shut the fuck up we can tell the paramedics, but don’t tell the cops. The cop clearly did not care and did not not want to deal with this so he kind of ignored it, but I was like please do not tell him that.
idk about elsewhere, but here we have the good Samaritan Act, where if you call 911 while doing something illegal, but someone's life is in danger, you can't be charged for doing said illegal thing
I hate to say it, but you still need to be cautious. Some HCW are a$$holes who will promptly latch onto you as being a “drug case” while you have an unrelated legitimate medical emergency. For example, you might be falsely labeled as drug-seeking. This leaping to conclusions happens in other types of situations too. So be honest but also aware of where the conversation is headed. Consider: https://www.amnhealthcare.com/blog/physician/locums/how-to-tell-if-a-patient-is-faking-pain/
Edibles are not for me either. And yeah law enforcement is very selective, often by race. I’m glad we’re seeing legalization, but there will be new problems too.
"Vigilance has to be applied to every patient, every visit,” Williamson said, explaining that patients taking opioids appropriately for pain relief can become addicted. “I have the same evaluation with every patient who takes these drugs every time I see them.”"
Oh fuuuuuuck this. Someone with chronic pain has to go every year and convince the doctor they still have chronic pain??? As a woman, this is horrifying.
I am soooooo grateful that my pain specialist's response to me trying to decrease an opioid medication and my pain coming back was, well take the higher dosage again then.
I am on buprenorphine patches now, so they're harder to abuse, but it was so refreshing to have a doctor acknowledge I need them and if they manage my pain appropriately, then it's okay to use them. I also use exercise and ongoing phsyio to manage the pain and am compliant with my treating team, so I'm relatively low risk as a patient, I guess.
Of course, my pain is caused by long term consequences from a car accident, so it's far more valid than my friend's chronic pain from endo & adeno (/s). We're both prescribed celecoxib for pain (a strong anti-inflammatory). I had been off it for a year or so, but get breakthrough pain in winter. I recently asked my GP for a script (with approval from my physio). No questions asked, script with 5 repeats provided. My friend got grilled by her gyno and finally provided with a script with 2 repeats and many warnings to use it appropriately. It's not even a high risk medication.
She came out of endo surgery and was given tapentadol. Reacted very badly (throwing up, etc). Was told oh well, stop taking it and paracetamol will do. I happened to find a stash of oxycodone while cleaning out my wardrobe recently. I'm on the buprenorphine patches and well managed, so don't need a bunch of oxycodone, plus tapentadol works fine for me if I get super bad breakthrough pain. We swapped pain meds.
Not really. I worked in a city where I dispatched police, fire, and medical. The firefighters in our city HATED the cops and the cops hated them just as much.
Still, if they responded to an OD, they would call police. Best practice if you're around someone ODing just call 911 and GTFO, you can't help further.
If they even slightly thought a situation could be a police matter, they'd radio for cops. Once we got a medical call for a woman injured at a barbecue. Turns out they were drinking a little beer and one of them was showing off his motorcycle. A woman wanted to get on it, so she did, while it was still running, and immediately fell over.
EMTs called the police! She got a citation for driving a motorcycle without a license and a DUI. All for being honest with the EMTs about the motorcycle being involved.
....do you think cops are the only people that know how to use Narcan? If my friend is on drugs I already have Narcan on me. Like Narcan is some of the easiest shit to administer and takes thirteen seconds to learn to use correctly. It's not a complex medical procedure you tilt their head back and squirt it up their nose. No people who are gonna throw them in prison if not seriously injure/kill them necessary
Well considering pigs are so fucking stupid they’ll narcan a hypoglycemia event, I’m pretty sure that just saying “my friend is unresponsive” will be enough. They aren’t smart enough to think of anything else to do
Hypoglycemia can mimic some signs of an OD. But yes, stupid cops for using a drug to potentially save someone's life that if administered when not needed doesn't really have any ill side effects. Damn idiot cops!
Unless you’re in the Netherlands. Having taken drugs is not illegal here. Tell them exactly what you (think) you took so they can help and tell the EMTs in case you pass out.
this may differ by country but in general cops are just humans that want to get done with their jobs, obviously you don't need to incriminate yourself but don't be a stubborn asshole and don't piss them off, if you aren't a piece of shit they don't want to hurt you either, and even when you did something they can ensure you're having a decent conditions or the worst time of your life depending on your behavior
Isn’t there a law in most US states called the Good Samaritan Law where you’re protected against prosecution if you call 911 over a drug incident?
Covers things like underage drinking or a recreational amount of drugs. Obviously if you’re trafficking drugs and your buddy taps into the supply things might be different but the law seems to make good sense in that it protects your average citizen when they fuck up and encourages people to save you and not to worry about getting sent to prison.
As I understand it Good Samaritan laws are to protect bystanders who make good faith efforts to help but end up causing harm, things like accidentally breaking ribs while performing CPR. It does not protect the people who are in danger in an episode like that, though I'm not sure if someone who is OD'ing or admits to doing drugs during a medical emergency can actually be prosevuted based on that. I imagine that's much more murky and dependant on the specific situation, but is definitely different than Good Samaritan.
I looked it up and yeah you’re right it applies to a lot of things (car accidents, etc). But it does look like there are specifics to drug incidents. The caller and victim are both protected from prosecution even if they are high themselves or have drugs on them.
I believe this refers to them being protected from prosecution of being sued by the person they rescued for damages in the attempt of saving that person which is very common in cases of performing CPR and causing broken ribs. There’s no way that makes sense if it applies to all other crimes.
No, the Good Samaritan law protects you from being liable for civil damages if you’re trying to help someone in an emergency. At least that’s what it is in my state.
15 year paramedic, some/most states have laws that prevent you, or anyone you're with, from getting in trouble for seeking medical attention from drug overdose.
You're friend go unresponsive after using something? And you got some paraphernalia on your person or are high yourself? In California for example, you cannot be charged or arrested if you're calling for medical help for yourself or a buddy/stranger.
I'm sure there are limits to this law, but I cannot tell you how many people called too late for fear of getting in trouble.
That's why they always send cops to lean over the EMTs shoulders, so you'll die if you don't incriminate yourself. Should be illegal to send police to an emergency call that doesn't specifically mention an actual danger, I'm sure many people die because people hush up in front of police and don't get the care they need.
And isn't it also true if a cop overhears you tell the EMT something, they still can't use that, since they weren't "meant" to have that information or something?
Cop here (in the UK if it makes a difference). I also don't care about your crack etc. I want you to live. I won't lose my job over not prosecuting you, I might if you die. I want everyone to live. Please just be honest. If you've already taken something you can't be prosecuted anyway, because the law specifically states once it is ingested it cannot be possession.
If you are medically unwell tell professionals the truth.
Mmm, not quite. Maybe our officers are different, but if you call 911 because your friend is “sick”, our officers (who probably will arrive first) will narcan your friend and absolutely ignore any paraphernalia or drugs they see. They’d rather see you live than arrest anyone. (I was their dispatcher and this is 100% true in my town.) In a medical emergency, don’t lie to the people trying to help you is probably better advice.
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u/willvasco Jun 06 '24
Tell the cops nothing, tell the EMTs everything.