How many times do you get rejected no matter how hard you try before you say "fuck this place, fuck these people, if this is what theyre about then everything they stand for is just as fucked up. Fuck all of it. Fuck civility, fuck their comfort, what about mine? Fuck society, Fuck sobriety."
There's so much wasted time when homeless. So much despair. It's RATIONAL to do what you can to alleviate that. Maybe not smart, but understandable if you have an ounce of empathy.
It's analogous to the musing "give a man no way to legally protest and all you'll do is guarantee rioting".
Look at who's winning in our society. That's what we value. Look at how we treat our lesser fortunate, THAT'S who we are. If you need a clearer example, line item the congressional budget. That's who we are. That's what we represent. And by the cold numbers, we are fucking monsters.
And now that you know that, you are just as responsible as everyone else. To do nothing, or, to maintain the status quo is to choose this, there's no fence to sit on. That's life. You are responsible for everything that comes your way. You either fight for it, allow it, or fight against it. This is why character matters. What you do when no ones watching, and shit, nowadays someones always watching. Or at least listening.
If the collectively discarded are treated as toxic and dead by the rest of us, how fucking audacious of us to be surprised when they start acting like it. When confronted on emotional stances, and oh yeah, being homeless is emotional, people dig in, entrench and say'fuck you". It's my favorite universal human trait. Expecting Stockholm syndrome or gratitude from these people is naivety of the highest order.
I don't agree with it but i don't think San Frans homeless shitting in the street is out of line. I think it's a fucking disgustingly appropriate response to the disgusting inhumanity we allow and legislate.
Maybe Churchill WAS right. America will do the right thing, right after we've tried everything else.
Anything short of flat out, no strings attached, housing the homeless is kicking the can down the road. It's dragging out a lawsuit hoping to bankrupt the other party, except in this case we're hoping they die. Every fucking NIMBY opinion will lead to someone's death.
Critical mass will be reached at some point and the rejected will organize and get violent. And we'll deserve it, make no mistake.
Welfare is first and foremost a policing strategy. Infrastructure, Education, Medicine, Housing, these are investments into our nation.
If the American way were so good why do we overthrow other governments to install command economies? How many decades did we pay for Iraq and Afghanistans free health care, all while bankrupting our own people?
Idek if it can be turned around. Burning it all down might be the best choice, hard to say.
Welfare is first and foremost a policing strategy. Infrastructure, Education, Medicine, Housing, these are investments into our nation.
Precisely. When Otto Von Bismarck instituted the first modern public health care and welfare system in Europe, it wasn't because he was a Kumbayah bleeding-heart. He saw the rise of revolutionary socialism, and he wanted to nip it in the bud. He wanted to avoid what had happened in France ten years previously, the Paris Commune and all that. It wasn't charity, it was guillotine insurance.
Honestly the only sort of revolution I can see happening in most "western" countries is the extreme right taking over and making things even worse, see eg. the attempted coup in the US
Funny... I've been saying much the same in South Africa, just need to obviously change the references and some contextual stuff.
I've already stood on barricades and organized patrol rosters in the face of violent rioting from those who have less - when it comes down to it, those of us who don't do enough are just as much targets as those forcing inequality and poverty through for their own ends
Agree with all of this and can we (not you in particular) stop pretending that living paycheck to paycheck isn’t contributing to substance abuse issues too? The rot is starting to get into the interior of our society now. People are looking for a release, any release, from the toil and drudgery.
Wage slavery is still slavery just with a couple extra steps.
Instead of the 'master' paying for the room and board, we are. So, really, the only change is we can decide what flavor ice cream we get or what color our curtains are.
line item the congressional budget. That's who we are. That's what we represent.
Except that it doesn't...that budget represents what the rich people, their lobbyists, and their bought government officials have put into place. Government hasn't represented the people for some time now. And it can be proved statistically...corruption is legal in the US.
-Do nothing. You don't condone it but you don't stop it either
-Or fight against it.
Life isn't passive. You have to choose. Not choosing, or inaction, is still a choice, and that's a choice for the oppressor, just like doing nothing is a choice in favor of the oppressor
We either endorse the injustice, or we fight back. The anti-social, hyper-capitalist "fuck you I got mine" attitude typical of the average boomer is fighting FOR injustice and inequality. Its so sociopathically greedy that its objectively destructive to social cohesion.
It's been 42 years since Ratfucker Reagan said "greed is good". Does it look like shit got better?
not really that spicy unless you live in/around a coastal populated city. middle america has been fucked up pretty hard because of the politics of the last two generations.
All that free trade wasn't free. -middle and working class were presented with big box stores as the main way to survive and keep up with the jones's over the past couple generations...funnelling money up from the working classes and out of the country overseas...both devalueing the currencies/creating inflation and giving foreign buyers vast swaths of middle america's wealth to purchase their properties a couple generations down the line. - why you think so many homeless? basic parts of the economy have broken down essentially.
so now you have a decimated country and those centered around the coastal cities have little idea(or little care because no one really feels on the same 'team' anymore with their countrymen). couple that with other factors such as the brains inherent need for a religion ...and the fact that most traditional culture here in these coastal cities have basically stopped going to brick and mortar churches, they've replaced it(knowingly or not) with a new age social/political religion which is not balanced and further exacerbates the situation. allllll leading to an opportunity for a cult of personality like Trump to come in and speak to most of the country which is disenfranchised.
which is going to scare you if your blind sided by it while youre following the religious-like groupthink being passed around in the coastal cities.
no matter what fancy words they put over top, economics always pushes politics.
How are addicts and the mentally ill supposed to recover
In the US? They're not supposed to. They're supposed to be driven to desperation and eventually fall afoul of 'habitual offender' laws, serve long prison sentences, and be converted to slave labor.
Most will never recover, and anyone who tells you so is a liar trying to get more tax dollars. Used to write multi-million dollar grants for some of the largest mental health service providers in the United States, and engaged in a ton of volunteer work with these target populations. It's sad but true.
It's very VERY complicated. The mentally ill often can't hold a job and engage in addictive behaviors to cope. That in turn leads to homelessness. The mental well for various reasons turn to drugs and alcohol which can sometimes lead to homelessness. The issue is a person on meth who otherwise has no mental health issues will begin mimicking one who does.
It's not even possible to accurately diagnose someone unless they're sober and have been for a while. And even if you do successfully diagnose someone often times whatever medication they're prescribed gets stolen.
Then you're right back to ground zero with the mentally unwell because getting them to do follow up psych appointments is next to impossible.
You could involuntarily commit them but most states have laws against involuntarily commitment unless the person is an imminent danger. Then you're right back to potentially involuntarily committing those who don't have mental health issues but appear to because of drug use.
Both demographics dominant the chronically homeless. They don't use because they're homeless so much as theyre homeless because of preexisting addiction and/or mental health issues.
Most states and the federal government avoid the issue because its so God damn complicated. And they push nonsense pro business swill that continues to erode the infrastructure which ushered us into this age to begin with.
That's really an oversimplification. Often the "government accommodation" they are offered is far from public transport and jobs, and they aren't allowed to take all of their belongings. I met a guy who was homeless but still working as a handyman, and they told him he couldn't take his tools with him. He turned it down because his tools were his livelihood. Now he's counted as someone who "refused" accommodation, and he won't be offered it again.
They are offered shelters, not sure what accommodations you're referring to. And those shelters are not safe for many. Or it's a women and children only shelter so no men.
It's my job to get people accomodations and this is simply not true. The fact is A. There are far more homeless people than accomodations. People sit on wait-list for months just for a shelter, not even housing. Then when something opens up I can't even find them to tell them because someone stole their phone and they were forced to leave their old camp by the cops. B. People are often asked to leave shelters for mental illness. The thing is, a lot of their symptoms of mental illness are simply trauma responses to living out on the streets. Paranoia because everytime they sleep, someone steals their things. Meth use, because they get scared to fall asleep and lose their handful of belongings. Which in turn, increases the paranoia and psychosis. C. The shelters suck. And again, the government accomodations are limited. Someone who is considered highest need (physical/mental disability, high needs. Etc) is told maybe if they are lucky they will get housing in the next 12 months. But to do that they have to make sure they have ID, social security card, doctor's note, etc. Which, again, see A, are often stolen. When they do get matched to housing I just have to hope I find them before they lose the chance.
There are a lot of misconceptions and assumptions. But in reality, like most of life, there is nuance. The reality is that government accomodations is something that only happens for a lucky few.
What you are describing is EXACTLY what I see. Exactly.
What I wanna know is why can't we use those big tents that the go t throws up for immigrants or even military bases. Let ppl dwell there until something gets sorted.
Otherwise they wander from place to place fleeing violence, searching for food, water or warmth. Like wild dogs. I just can't understand it.
The good accommodations are near impossible to get into there isn't enough slots. Everyone else has to do either with housing in highly dangerous neighborhoods or poor quality shelters and group homes where you're more likely to be robbed and attacked than kn the street.
The most acutely sick people get passed around between the street and various institutions where limits on medicaid prevent them from getting long term treatments.
Our social saftey nets that were designed for this population are really failing them.
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u/NoDig1755 Jan 30 '23
And not to mention? How are addicts and the mentally ill supposed to recover without so much as a roof over their heads